Can they do this, is it legal.
Discussion
Quattromaster said:
So what happens if they do nothing after the "extra" 14 days, can I not just go for judgement again.
I can't remember all the details now. It may be an extra safety feature for idiots. By acknowledging service the Court at least now knows they are receiving stuff. I think they have 14 days to file a defence. If they don't, you win. If they do, you go to Court (via the option of mediation).If the dealership is intelligent they will know - if all the facts are on the table here - that they cannot win, and so will play silly buggers for as long as possible in the hope you will give up and go away. They would be stupid to go to Court and lose BUT they may be arrogant, and arrogance breeds carelessness.
Just follow procedure; the literature is comprehensive.
I remember reading some statistic or other that said only a ridiculously low percentage of claims actually make it as far as court. In almost all cases, either the plaintiff gives up, or the defendant does.
Even if you get judgement, you'll probably find they apply to have it set aside for some reason. Another stalling tactic....
Keep plugging away and you'll be ok.
I had a similar one a few years ago with an invoice that magically appeared with a court claim. In this instance, it never got to court because the court sent a stern letter to the claimant saying they would need some better evidence than a made-up invoice if they were to succeed. Never heard another thing.
The court will not be fooled by dodgy paperwork, and it will only go to a hearing if there's actually a case to be heard. They're clever people and don't stand for foolishness.
Even if you get judgement, you'll probably find they apply to have it set aside for some reason. Another stalling tactic....
Keep plugging away and you'll be ok.
I had a similar one a few years ago with an invoice that magically appeared with a court claim. In this instance, it never got to court because the court sent a stern letter to the claimant saying they would need some better evidence than a made-up invoice if they were to succeed. Never heard another thing.
The court will not be fooled by dodgy paperwork, and it will only go to a hearing if there's actually a case to be heard. They're clever people and don't stand for foolishness.
kersSimpo Two said:
It's easy to tick a box; harder to make up a defence that holds water.
We'll be fascinated to see what they say. Be prepared for some unpleasant stuff.
It depends a lot on how well the claim has been drafted.We'll be fascinated to see what they say. Be prepared for some unpleasant stuff.
It may well be that the OP has a great case, but may not have drafted the claim very well.
Who knows. In any went, good luck.
Going back to the PDI, as long as it was done after the wheel paint then youre home free are you not? Bet they wont tell you when it was done though.
Every PDI is signed by the tech that carries it out and there will be a calibrated torque wrench number recorded, usually on the job card, to comply with the ISO or whatever it is now.
Why one wheel? seems odd that if all 4 were done that only 1 worked loose?
Unless sales team thought "I wonder what that one would look like with black wheels on" and swapped one over?
Ive seen wheels come off and there be no damage to the caliper disc or hub. If the back of the wheel is clean with no fretting then they are taking the piss. Soft alloy wheels are the first thing to be ruined over the other parts listed.
Every PDI is signed by the tech that carries it out and there will be a calibrated torque wrench number recorded, usually on the job card, to comply with the ISO or whatever it is now.
Why one wheel? seems odd that if all 4 were done that only 1 worked loose?
Unless sales team thought "I wonder what that one would look like with black wheels on" and swapped one over?
Ive seen wheels come off and there be no damage to the caliper disc or hub. If the back of the wheel is clean with no fretting then they are taking the piss. Soft alloy wheels are the first thing to be ruined over the other parts listed.
johnfm said:
It depends a lot on how well the claim has been drafted.
.
You have me worried now, I put in a simple claim for part non payment of invoices, as in they owed me 2 invoices totalling £4764, they deducted £3000, so only paying me £1764.
I'm claiming the £3000.
I've made no mention of any of the issues listed in this thread, if need be I'll save all that for the court.
Edited by Quattromaster on Saturday 15th March 23:00
The claim is suppose to outline the case, albeit succinctly. It is the basis for your case.
The important thing in Small Claims is that both parties must share all their evidence (via the court) before the hearing. The defendant should know what you are going to hit them with, and vice versa. My case was adjourned because I sent a testimonial to the court but not the defendant.
So if your claim just says 'I want £3,000' and their defence is 10 sheets of typed A4 there's some ground to make up. I am not sure now whether, after you receive a copy of their defence (if they bother to write one and it's not just gamesmanship) you get another turn to spill chapter and verse.
Anyway, the main thing is to keep calm, keep your thoughts in order and don't give up. First one to give up loses, that's for sure.
The important thing in Small Claims is that both parties must share all their evidence (via the court) before the hearing. The defendant should know what you are going to hit them with, and vice versa. My case was adjourned because I sent a testimonial to the court but not the defendant.
So if your claim just says 'I want £3,000' and their defence is 10 sheets of typed A4 there's some ground to make up. I am not sure now whether, after you receive a copy of their defence (if they bother to write one and it's not just gamesmanship) you get another turn to spill chapter and verse.
Anyway, the main thing is to keep calm, keep your thoughts in order and don't give up. First one to give up loses, that's for sure.
I would also claim for late payment under the relevant legislation (see www.payontime.co.uk) with fees and interest on top.
Cyberprog said:
I would also claim for late payment under the relevant legislation (see www.payontime.co.uk) with fees and interest on top.
The small claims rules allow you to add a certain amount, but it's not much, and it should have been added to the claim. Probably down to judge's discretion now.Simpo Two said:
So if your claim just says 'I want £3,000' and their defence is 10 sheets of typed A4 there's some ground to make up. I am not sure now whether, after you receive a copy of their defence (if they bother to write one and it's not just gamesmanship) you get another turn to spill chapter and verse.
Anyway, the main thing is to keep calm, keep your thoughts in order and don't give up. First one to give up loses, that's for sure.
This.Anyway, the main thing is to keep calm, keep your thoughts in order and don't give up. First one to give up loses, that's for sure.
I think the OP has done it the right way. The two options are to sue for an unpaid invoice, or, to proactively go into detail about the situation. The latter does make it complex, and you may be proactively trying to cover a Defence which is not put forward.
In this case, on the face of it, it is an unpaid invoice.
Should the OP then receive back a Defence that states the grounds for non-payment are X, Y and Z he can file and serve a Reply to the Defence going through the points. However, he is not bound to do so and no inference against him is taken should he wait for court to counter the Defence.
In comes down to tactics - as Simpo has mentioned, cases can get hung up on technicalities.
The MO of parties in this case is 99% of the time the boxes will be ticked to get another 14 days. What may happen is that the Defendant then starts to make Without Prejudice discussions to avoid court and avoid the time and cost of Defence filing.
Simpo Two said:
The small claims rules allow you to add a certain amount, but it's not much, and it should have been added to the claim. Probably down to judge's discretion now.
You can add everything the law allows, upto the small claims limit for 10k. Anything other than and you get allocated to a different track.Cyberprog said:
You can add everything the law allows, upto the small claims limit for 10k. Anything other than and you get allocated to a different track.
Indeed but the claim has already been submitted and I presume it has a number at the bottom of it. I'm not sure 'Oh hang on I'd like to add another £50 please' would make the claimant look very professional.JustinP1 said:
stuff
OP, listen to this man
UPDATE TIME
So, the dealer is defending the claim, putting as his defence "We dispute the said claim as the amount of £3000 owing to (me) was contra settled against our invoice 123456 (attached) for the sum of £3000,The claimant is well aware of our invoice and at no time dispute it and the fact that the monies were contra settled "
3 days later I get an email from my insurance company, saying they have received a email from the dealer saying there are no other monies owing bar the invoice for £772.60. Now all along we have never tried to shy away from this matter, and I'm happy to pay that, so thinking they have come to senses I write the dealer a letter, saying
" I understand from speaking with my insurance company that (dealer name) have agreed that no further monies are owed other than the £772.60, I have no problems paying this amount on receipt of a correctly issued invoice, including vat.
If you can therefore arrange for all monies owed to (me), including court fees, to be paid, plus raise an invoice, made out to (me), plus vat, then I will make sure that this is paid the same day we receive it, I will then notify the court of full and final settlement and close the case."
Nothing for a week, then a letter from dealership saying nobody has emailed the insurance company, and they are still defending the claim. So, I decide its time to see a solicitor, tempted as I am to contact dealer saying I have a copy of said email, and will see you in court.
My solicitor is confident it is a no lose case for me, they have stopped monies from myself, from 2 invoices that had no relation to the vehicle in question, he fired off a 3 page letter, highlighting this, offering to pay the £772.60 once I have my money back, and a correct invoice, in the meantime I filled another court paper in, asking for mediation, had to do this as time was running short for the case to be thrown out.
Dealer has chosen to ignore my solicitors letter, and we are off to mediation in the first week of May, seems its a 1-2 hrs process, done over the phone.
I am beginning to think this is the start of a long and winding road.
So, the dealer is defending the claim, putting as his defence "We dispute the said claim as the amount of £3000 owing to (me) was contra settled against our invoice 123456 (attached) for the sum of £3000,The claimant is well aware of our invoice and at no time dispute it and the fact that the monies were contra settled "
3 days later I get an email from my insurance company, saying they have received a email from the dealer saying there are no other monies owing bar the invoice for £772.60. Now all along we have never tried to shy away from this matter, and I'm happy to pay that, so thinking they have come to senses I write the dealer a letter, saying
" I understand from speaking with my insurance company that (dealer name) have agreed that no further monies are owed other than the £772.60, I have no problems paying this amount on receipt of a correctly issued invoice, including vat.
If you can therefore arrange for all monies owed to (me), including court fees, to be paid, plus raise an invoice, made out to (me), plus vat, then I will make sure that this is paid the same day we receive it, I will then notify the court of full and final settlement and close the case."
Nothing for a week, then a letter from dealership saying nobody has emailed the insurance company, and they are still defending the claim. So, I decide its time to see a solicitor, tempted as I am to contact dealer saying I have a copy of said email, and will see you in court.
My solicitor is confident it is a no lose case for me, they have stopped monies from myself, from 2 invoices that had no relation to the vehicle in question, he fired off a 3 page letter, highlighting this, offering to pay the £772.60 once I have my money back, and a correct invoice, in the meantime I filled another court paper in, asking for mediation, had to do this as time was running short for the case to be thrown out.
Dealer has chosen to ignore my solicitors letter, and we are off to mediation in the first week of May, seems its a 1-2 hrs process, done over the phone.
I am beginning to think this is the start of a long and winding road.
Well, I had not heard any more regarding mediation, so rang them, to be told they were unable to get hold of other party, so it was sent out to a judge at my local court, he took one look at it and said send it back for mediation.
So we start the whole process again, yet more time wasting by the other party. I said to the woman on phone "so what happens if the other party don't get in contact AGAIN", to be told they have 30 days, then its back to judge again. He could then decide to let us have another try at mediation, so in other words we could be going round in circles for months.
The law really does favour the muppets in this country, crazy crazy system.
So we start the whole process again, yet more time wasting by the other party. I said to the woman on phone "so what happens if the other party don't get in contact AGAIN", to be told they have 30 days, then its back to judge again. He could then decide to let us have another try at mediation, so in other words we could be going round in circles for months.
The law really does favour the muppets in this country, crazy crazy system.
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