A Piece Of Business Advice I Was Given
Discussion
Dixy said:
Lord Sugar and Sir Richard Branson are 2 of the best examples of that advice being wrong, their is a world of difference between being good at what you know and being an entrepreneur.
What thos two have done is make money and then invested it, which isn't quite the same. Richard Branson doesn't run Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Trains or whatever, in some cases what he's been doing is franchise or brand rental. Meanwhile Alan Sugar has primarily made money from Amstrad and invested it in property.I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
I've spent the last ten years of my professional life working with independent insurance brokers in the UK and have probably met about 200 men (they're all men) who run their own firms. They come from a mixture of backgrounds.
Most started life working for big insurance companies and got good technical training in the product. Then they crossed the fence and turned from poachers to gamekeepers so to speak, effectively moving form manufacturing into retail. They started businesses in the industry they had been working in but without ever actually having worked in broking. This had not stopped many of them succeeding.
Others started off working for broking firms and then decided to start something from scratch or more likely, perform an MBO to become business owners.
But a significant minority, I'd say about 10%, came from marketing. They have no experience of insurance, and in some cases were quite ignorant, but they saw insurance as a product they could sell.
One such business I have visited recently has grown to a massive turnover (approaching £100m in a few short years) but whenever I see their offices I have to laugh, its all beanbags, beards and BO but boy can they shift insurance policies via the web.
Seems to me that people who know how to sell, especially online, can employ people with product knowledge that they themselves lack. Conversely people who have product knowledge by the bucket-load seem much less willing to employ sales pros.
Most started life working for big insurance companies and got good technical training in the product. Then they crossed the fence and turned from poachers to gamekeepers so to speak, effectively moving form manufacturing into retail. They started businesses in the industry they had been working in but without ever actually having worked in broking. This had not stopped many of them succeeding.
Others started off working for broking firms and then decided to start something from scratch or more likely, perform an MBO to become business owners.
But a significant minority, I'd say about 10%, came from marketing. They have no experience of insurance, and in some cases were quite ignorant, but they saw insurance as a product they could sell.
One such business I have visited recently has grown to a massive turnover (approaching £100m in a few short years) but whenever I see their offices I have to laugh, its all beanbags, beards and BO but boy can they shift insurance policies via the web.
Seems to me that people who know how to sell, especially online, can employ people with product knowledge that they themselves lack. Conversely people who have product knowledge by the bucket-load seem much less willing to employ sales pros.
Ossiantoad said:
Seems to me that people who know how to sell, especially online, can employ people with product knowledge that they themselves lack. Conversely people who have product knowledge by the bucket-load seem much less willing to employ sales pros.
With respect, thats from your particular viewpoint of the world.I know of a lot of companies who provide a product or service and employ sales pros to sell it for them.
I've worked in IT for most of my career and its not the IT people who sell the product, its people employed specifically for that purpose.
As the responses have said, the answer can be yes or know.
When I went self employed I was doing something I had done for someone else for six months.
However the business has morphed into doing something completely different, ready mixed concrete, that I knew nothing about other than buying a few loads. I got into that because I thought the service provided by the competition was so bad that I knew I could do better. I then had to find out as much as I could on the technical side.
In my experience if you're selling a product or service, good basic business and selling skills will see you through if you do your homework.
When I went self employed I was doing something I had done for someone else for six months.
However the business has morphed into doing something completely different, ready mixed concrete, that I knew nothing about other than buying a few loads. I got into that because I thought the service provided by the competition was so bad that I knew I could do better. I then had to find out as much as I could on the technical side.
In my experience if you're selling a product or service, good basic business and selling skills will see you through if you do your homework.
or delete unnecessary apostrophesdaemon said:
Wacky Racer said:
Expenses down Profits up...Peter Grant (Led Zeppelin's manager)
I would have thought he would have had his work cut out there....Every successful business I've seen has been a good mix of product skill and commercial nous.
spikeyhead said:
daemon said:
Wacky Racer said:
Expenses down Profits up...Peter Grant (Led Zeppelin's manager)
I would have thought he would have had his work cut out there....Every successful business I've seen has been a good mix of product skill and commercial nous.
But you can just imagine him "trying to keep expenses down" on a world tour!
I've got to say I think the advice that is by-and-large supported by this thread is becoming outdated.
The 'net is a hive of information, along with being an easy and free method by which you can contact people in the sector you are interested in (and will surprisingly often give time up to talk things over with people - especially true of those who have had some success). Because of this, it is much easier to get up to speed with things like how particular businesses operate than even five years ago - for example, I found this link the other day that tells you precisely how to make a Burger King Whopper - that would probably be pretty interesting to me if I wanted to set up a new burger joint but had no experience: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Whopper-Burger-at-Bu...
Yes, some industries are extremely complicated and you need expertise before you could pursue your own business there (for example, an advisory service). But there are a plethora of businesses out there which you don't need experience for. Of course experience helps if you already have it - but do you want to spend (waste?) five-ten years of your life in a corporate environment when you could strike out on your own now and probably learn a whole lot more?
The 'net is a hive of information, along with being an easy and free method by which you can contact people in the sector you are interested in (and will surprisingly often give time up to talk things over with people - especially true of those who have had some success). Because of this, it is much easier to get up to speed with things like how particular businesses operate than even five years ago - for example, I found this link the other day that tells you precisely how to make a Burger King Whopper - that would probably be pretty interesting to me if I wanted to set up a new burger joint but had no experience: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Whopper-Burger-at-Bu...
Yes, some industries are extremely complicated and you need expertise before you could pursue your own business there (for example, an advisory service). But there are a plethora of businesses out there which you don't need experience for. Of course experience helps if you already have it - but do you want to spend (waste?) five-ten years of your life in a corporate environment when you could strike out on your own now and probably learn a whole lot more?
Siscar said:
What thos two have done is make money and then invested it, which isn't quite the same. Richard Branson doesn't run Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Trains or whatever, in some cases what he's been doing is franchise or brand rental. Meanwhile Alan Sugar has primarily made money from Amstrad and invested it in property.
I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
And whilst this is partially correct, they had to find the money to invest from somewhere. And that somewhere is the businesses they founded. I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
Sugar floated Amstrad in the 90s and it had a market cap of £1.2bn at its peak, which is where he got most of his cash from. He then founded Amsprop (the property investment you talk about) which I believe he still has a hand in day-to-day running.
Branson I know less about, but I believe he sold Virgin Records (the original company he founded, with no experience) for £500mn to EMI. So again, he got his initial (huge) cashpile from the business he founded, not from investment.
22s said:
Yes, some industries are extremely complicated and you need expertise before you could pursue your own business there (for example, an advisory service). But there are a plethora of businesses out there which you don't need experience for. Of course experience helps if you already have it - but do you want to spend (waste?) five-ten years of your life in a corporate environment when you could strike out on your own now and probably learn a whole lot more?
I think your odds of success are greatly increased if you have experience in the field in question - unless of course your business is "selling" then theoretically you could apply that knowledge to any product.Also, generally speaking its a lot more cost effective to have someone else pay for your mistakes rather than pay for them yourself.
22s said:
Siscar said:
What thos two have done is make money and then invested it, which isn't quite the same. Richard Branson doesn't run Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Trains or whatever, in some cases what he's been doing is franchise or brand rental. Meanwhile Alan Sugar has primarily made money from Amstrad and invested it in property.
I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
And whilst this is partially correct, they had to find the money to invest from somewhere. And that somewhere is the businesses they founded. I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
Sugar floated Amstrad in the 90s and it had a market cap of £1.2bn at its peak, which is where he got most of his cash from. He then founded Amsprop (the property investment you talk about) which I believe he still has a hand in day-to-day running.
Branson I know less about, but I believe he sold Virgin Records (the original company he founded, with no experience) for £500mn to EMI. So again, he got his initial (huge) cashpile from the business he founded, not from investment.
was that not what i was saying, or trying to?22s said:
I found this link the other day that tells you precisely how to make a Burger King Whopper - that would probably be pretty interesting to me if I wanted to set up a new burger joint but had no experience: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Whopper-Burger-at-Bu...
With respect, that tells you how to "assemble" the burger. Not how they make it. If you were wanting to start up a burger joint armed with that nugget of info, you would be as well to buy a lottery ticket too to double your chances of success.
Siscar said:
22s said:
Siscar said:
What thos two have done is make money and then invested it, which isn't quite the same. Richard Branson doesn't run Virgin Atlantic or Virgin Trains or whatever, in some cases what he's been doing is franchise or brand rental. Meanwhile Alan Sugar has primarily made money from Amstrad and invested it in property.
I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
And whilst this is partially correct, they had to find the money to invest from somewhere. And that somewhere is the businesses they founded. I'm not doing either of them down, almost anyone would be proud to be half as successful, but there's a big difference between founding and growing a business and investing in others.
Sugar floated Amstrad in the 90s and it had a market cap of £1.2bn at its peak, which is where he got most of his cash from. He then founded Amsprop (the property investment you talk about) which I believe he still has a hand in day-to-day running.
Branson I know less about, but I believe he sold Virgin Records (the original company he founded, with no experience) for £500mn to EMI. So again, he got his initial (huge) cashpile from the business he founded, not from investment.
was that not what i was saying, or trying to?But if not, then I was agreeing with you!
22s said:
Not how I understood it - I read it as they are investors and that is how they made their money; not from founding their businesses.
But if not, then I was agreeing with you!
Oh I think we are agreeing, they made a lot of money from the businesses they founded, then they invested the proceeds.But if not, then I was agreeing with you!
daemon said:
22s said:
I found this link the other day that tells you precisely how to make a Burger King Whopper - that would probably be pretty interesting to me if I wanted to set up a new burger joint but had no experience: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Whopper-Burger-at-Bu...
With respect, that tells you how to "assemble" the burger. Not how they make it. If you were wanting to start up a burger joint armed with that nugget of info, you would be as well to buy a lottery ticket too to double your chances of success.
22s said:
daemon said:
22s said:
I found this link the other day that tells you precisely how to make a Burger King Whopper - that would probably be pretty interesting to me if I wanted to set up a new burger joint but had no experience: http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Whopper-Burger-at-Bu...
With respect, that tells you how to "assemble" the burger. Not how they make it. If you were wanting to start up a burger joint armed with that nugget of info, you would be as well to buy a lottery ticket too to double your chances of success.
Best business advice i heard "starting your own business with no experience is a great way to make a small fortune - out of a large one"
Edited by daemon on Sunday 13th April 21:53
No doubt there are generic skills that will shove you along in any business - sales is an art although one anyone can learn. Finance, marketing, operations are all valuable strings to any bow but we have only produced one Branson & one Sugar.
What I'm getting at is business men of that calibre are rare beasts. It's the mix of vision, ambition & openness to risk that is so elusive. It's obvious that starting from scratch & building a business to a t/o in the low millions becomes an attractive prospect for sale & escape. You see people do this frequently - securing their own future & why not?
Relatively few are consumed sufficiently to really push on & become a player on the big stage & of those that do, I suspect they possess the drive to have succeeded at whatever field they might have fallen into - someone has to be PM, Chief Constable, General etc.
For the rest of us shmoes, our best chance is ploughing the furrow we know inside out. That's where our value lies, in the knowledge & experience we hold - there's good value in that as any decent client will recognise & use to their benefit.
What I'm getting at is business men of that calibre are rare beasts. It's the mix of vision, ambition & openness to risk that is so elusive. It's obvious that starting from scratch & building a business to a t/o in the low millions becomes an attractive prospect for sale & escape. You see people do this frequently - securing their own future & why not?
Relatively few are consumed sufficiently to really push on & become a player on the big stage & of those that do, I suspect they possess the drive to have succeeded at whatever field they might have fallen into - someone has to be PM, Chief Constable, General etc.
For the rest of us shmoes, our best chance is ploughing the furrow we know inside out. That's where our value lies, in the knowledge & experience we hold - there's good value in that as any decent client will recognise & use to their benefit.
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