Yet another becoming a part time dealer thread.....

[legendtrader]

Hi everyone

I am zeroing in on a Vauxhall Insignia auction purchase. Bedford BCA is fairly close to me and tomorrow they have 13 Insignias at auction and about 30 insignias up on 2 dates next week. BCA told me that I need a BCA gold card (12 purchases min p/year) to be able to view auctions online or a silver card (3 purchases p/year) with a BCA cheque account. Is there anyone out there who has BCA online access who could let me know what the 13 insignias go for tomorrow at Bedford BCA? I am just trying to find out what sort of prices they are going for.

CAP prices. Here is an example of an Insignia 59 plate 2.0 CDTI with £63k on the clock, grade 3 which is in the auction tomorrow.

CAP says

Dealer Price £7600 - £8300
Private Sale £6700 - £7200
Trade in Clean £5700 - £6100
Trade in Average £5300 - £6300
Trade in Below £4800 - £5100

BCA say an warning indicator is showing so it wouldnt be one for me however lets assume there are no indicator lights. CAP is suggesting it should go for £5300 to £6300. I think I would need to get it for £5400 and sell it for £6950 to make it worth it as I would likely have to pay c. £500 buyers fee.

What do you think? anyone help.

[legendtrader]

Just did an autotrader search for Insignia's sub 70k miles and there are loads around trade for £5950.

CAP prices are bo77ox. To sell I would need to price at £5900 or the phone wont ring. Therefore I would need to buy at auction for £4.6k max. Dont think they will be going that cheap at auction will they.

[Frimley111R]

legendtrader said:

CAP prices are bo77ox.

I agree and disagree. They are GUIDE prices only. They take no account of condition, minor damage, service history, MoT, additional spec, colour, regions (where some makes sell better than others) and are at least a month behind the times due to the time taken to compile the info.

TBH with smartphones and access to AT you can access far more accurate information yourself. I really can't see CAP and Glasses lasting much longer in their current/past format.

[legendtrader]

Frimley111R said:

I agree and disagree. They are GUIDE prices only. They take no account of condition, minor damage, service history, MoT, additional spec, colour, regions (where some makes sell better than others) and are at least a month behind the times due to the time taken to compile the info.

TBH with smartphones and access to AT you can access far more accurate information yourself. I really can't see CAP and Glasses lasting much longer in their current/past format.

yes i understand. there may be places in the UK where insignias go cheaper at auction. The trouble is I cant find out unless I have BCA online access, so it's a bit chicken and egg.

[POORCARDEALER]

Thats why you wont be able to buy from BCA and sell for a profit..the cars will do within 3/400 of what you want to sell them for...I stand at auctions and wonder what the buyers are doing with the cars they buy at the money they are paying...answer is many are using the car as a tool to sell finance and other ad ons

[100hourweek]

BCA Is not the place for a novice to be buying from.
Unless you have a platinum Card BCA will more than likely be to expensive for a trader who cant extract maximum value from the sale.
Insignias are not the car to be buying and expecting to make good profits from either, The markets saturated with the, There hard sales, There shocking for depreciation, Not also to mention the fact theres 4500 on the autotrader alone for sale today.

Dont get involved with motor trading unless you can give it your all, You dont mind working a hunded hours a week, You dont mind being insulted daily by customers.

The rewards can be great, But theres easier ways to make money.

[100hourweek]

legendtrader said:

CAP prices. Here is an example of an Insignia 59 plate 2.0 CDTI with £63k on the clock, grade 3 which is in the auction tomorrow.

CAP says

Dealer Price £7600 - £8300
Private Sale £6700 - £7200
Trade in Clean £5700 - £6100
Trade in Average £5300 - £6300
Trade in Below £4800 - £5100

Do you mind me asking where you are getting those CAP figures? My valuation anywhere from cap doesnt give prices like that.

[Butter Face]

Insignias?

You want to buy and sell insignias?

Why? There's like 100 billion of then out there, even vauxhall dealers don't really want to sell the damn things

I'd be finding a different route if you're serious about this.

Edited by Butter Face on Wednesday 16th July 18:56

[oldnbold]

legendtrader said:

yes i understand. there may be places in the UK where insignias go cheaper at auction. The trouble is I cant find out unless I have BCA online access, so it's a bit chicken and egg.

If you do find out where they go for a bit less (normally up north)the saving is only likley to be £250 or so. By the time you've travelled to the auction and got your purchase home, if you manage to buy one, you'll have spent probably half of that.

In your position you need to be at the auction to buy, so even if you can save a bit by buying somewhere not local you'll have all the extra agrivation, probably taking a full day off work to attend, mate to give you a lift or an expensive train journey then a taxi etc etc.

You would be better off looking for private sales locally that are badly worded, with little info, crap photo's that have been for sale for more than 2 weeks. Go and view the car and take your time, bid low and you will pick up some bargains. If you are only going to sell 4 or 5 cars a year this will work ok.

Once upon I time I used to source LR/RR vehicles from private sellers to sell on to franchised LR dealers for there used stock, all done over the phone, I never saw the vehicles. Value was from £10K - £50K, its supprising how many people will take a low bid after a couple of weeks of speaking to muppets asking "whats yur best price bruv init" without even asking any questions. You only have to look at the countless threads on here with people moaning what a ball ache selling is. So if you pitch up and sound profesional and explain why your low bidding some will take it. Those that won't you just leave your number and tell them to call if they change there minds in the next few days, again some will call back

I also used to work in sales at a main dealer, we used to purchase 20 - 30 cars a month, none came from auction!

[legendtrader]

POORCARDEALER said:

Thats why you wont be able to buy from BCA and sell for a profit..the cars will do within 3/400 of what you want to sell them for...I stand at auctions and wonder what the buyers are doing with the cars they buy at the money they are paying...answer is many are using the car as a tool to sell finance and other ad ons

i suspect you are right. I will check it out though and report back. There are tons of Insignias on Autotrader for £5.9k for average condition, 65k miles, 2.0 insignia 59 plate diesels. I am sure these cars will likely achieve £5k to £5.5k at BCA. form other research I did fees for a gold card holder are around £150 on a £5k purchase. I guess dealers are platinum holders and only pay a fee of around £100 this allows the to make a margin per car.

[legendtrader]

100hourweek said:

Do you mind me asking where you are getting those CAP figures? My valuation anywhere from cap doesnt give prices like that.

i used the free valuation from www.cap.co.uk

[rich12]

legendtrader said:

Hi everyone

I am zeroing in on a Vauxhall Insignia auction purchase. Bedford BCA is fairly close to me and tomorrow they have 13 Insignias at auction and about 30 insignias up on 2 dates next week. BCA told me that I need a BCA gold card (12 purchases min p/year) to be able to view auctions online or a silver card (3 purchases p/year) with a BCA cheque account. Is there anyone out there who has BCA online access who could let me know what the 13 insignias go for tomorrow at Bedford BCA? I am just trying to find out what sort of prices they are going for.

CAP prices. Here is an example of an Insignia 59 plate 2.0 CDTI with £63k on the clock, grade 3 which is in the auction tomorrow.

CAP says

Dealer Price £7600 - £8300
Private Sale £6700 - £7200
Trade in Clean £5700 - £6100
Trade in Average £5300 - £6300
Trade in Below £4800 - £5100

BCA say an warning indicator is showing so it wouldnt be one for me however lets assume there are no indicator lights. CAP is suggesting it should go for £5300 to £6300. I think I would need to get it for £5400 and sell it for £6950 to make it worth it as I would likely have to pay c. £500 buyers fee.

What do you think? anyone help.

There should be a black Range Rover Sport Supercharged going to Bedford tomorrow.
Could you please let me know how much it goes for? (it at all) Oh and make sure anyone you know doesn't buy it.

[legendtrader]

oldnbold said:

If you do find out where they go for a bit less (normally up north)the saving is only likley to be £250 or so. By the time you've travelled to the auction and got your purchase home, if you manage to buy one, you'll have spent probably half of that.

In your position you need to be at the auction to buy, so even if you can save a bit by buying somewhere not local you'll have all the extra agrivation, probably taking a full day off work to attend, mate to give you a lift or an expensive train journey then a taxi etc etc.

You would be better off looking for private sales locally that are badly worded, with little info, crap photo's that have been for sale for more than 2 weeks. Go and view the car and take your time, bid low and you will pick up some bargains. If you are only going to sell 4 or 5 cars a year this will work ok.

Once upon I time I used to source LR/RR vehicles from private sellers to sell on to franchised LR dealers for there used stock, all done over the phone, I never saw the vehicles. Value was from £10K - £50K, its supprising how many people will take a low bid after a couple of weeks of speaking to muppets asking "whats yur best price bruv init" without even asking any questions. You only have to look at the countless threads on here with people moaning what a ball ache selling is. So if you pitch up and sound profesional and explain why your low bidding some will take it. Those that won't you just leave your number and tell them to call if they change there minds in the next few days, again some will call back

I also used to work in sales at a main dealer, we used to purchase 20 - 30 cars a month, none came from auction!

that's good information oldnbold. I like your suggestion of finding private sellers who have a car that's sticking and may take a lower offer. thanks

[MADMAX33]

The Motor Trade is an unforgiving Trade and not regulated by Government therefore like you anyone can buy and sell Motor Vehicles.
I have read a few postings on this Topic and would seriously advise you leave it alone, even if it's just for your own sanerty and welfare, I was born in the Motor Trade both working on vehicles and also selling once at an age.

As previously suggested you can be swallowed whole if your not careful and you will end up working over 100 hours a week, waiting for people to turn up and insult you. The only person who is likely to purchase from you is a person wanting to almost steal it from you, who doesn't have any strenght of negotiation with a main Dealer.

15 years since I moved away from the actual selling of vehicles and found a consumable product that the Motor Trade uses on daily basis, I now have what I consider to a be a very financially rewarding business with the added bonus of only working 9.5pm Monday to Friday.

Good buy car selling.

If you really must try this my advise would be to choose one particular model of vehicle and stick with it, this way you have the added benefits of
Knowing the product well that you are selling
Accumulating a spare parts shelf in case of repair needed
A choice of vehicles if the customer doesn't really like the one they have come to view you have an alternative for them
Your competion will be dramaticaly reduced.

Good luck

[100hourweek]

legendtrader said:

i used the free valuation from www.cap.co.uk

Accurate cap figures are not free.

I pay around £1500 a year to get accurate figures, Those cap figures you are posting are not accurate trade figures.

[mini95]

I have been following this thread as it is something I have thought about doing, but unless you have contacts for good cars at trade prices I think it would be hard to make regular money.

I live 5 mins away from BCA Bedford so go along there to watch the cars through the ring and a lot seem expensive, a good few of the cars look to be sold to the car supermarket places as a lot of the cars are sold to a small number of bidders. I guess their margins are lower as they sell higher volumes. There is also a lot of bidders that are private buyers hoping for a bargain the last time I went.

A couple of lads near me sell from home, I got chatting to them and they seem to be making money, they scour Facebook sales pages, gumtree and local papers for private sales, cars that are possibly a bit scruffy or not presented well and buy these cheap and clean them up and sell on for a profit. They stick with small cars or maybe Polo or Golf sized cars upto £4000 and probably sell a couple a week or more. I guess they have low overheads with no forecourt so can work on lower margins.

[JimmyConwayNW]

I would not even entertain BCA.

Try and get to a Mannheim, SMA auction or similar.

Most of these auctions will give you a trade catalogue with the cap figures presented for each car.

Cap is a guideline only, do not become fixated. Certain cars I think are overvalued in cap guides.

100hrs is right with insignias, they won't be the easiest car to sell.

For someone to buy a car privately I think up to around 3-4k is what people want to pay. Remember you will not have credit or debit card option, be offering no warranty or comeback so your margin will already be low.

The best way is to find something that seems a good mechanical runner but needs a bit of bodywork. Buy it heap and private, have the paintwork done cheaply and then put it up for sale.


People do not like buying cars with dents or scratches even if priced accordingly. They like the cars to be perfect.

If you are prepared to travel I would say Central car auction in Glasgow is better geared towards a novice with cars at semi reasonable prices and fees they are bearable.

Travel is a massive part of me getting stock i go all over.

As for hours, left the house at 7am yesterday morning was home for 8pm. That was an early finish.

[100hourweek]

JimmyConwayNW said:

If you are prepared to travel I would say Central car auction in Glasgow is better geared towards a novice with cars at semi reasonable prices and fees they are bearable.

I come from Glasgow, Have 2 Showrooms with 250 cars, Sell around 120 a month and would NEVER recommend Central car auctions to snyone, There are far better companies to deal with in Scotland than Central, The only good thing they have is variety. I don't even step foot in the place I dislike it so much.

[JimmyConwayNW]

100hourweek said:

I come from Glasgow, Have 2 Showrooms with 250 cars, Sell around 120 a month and would NEVER recommend Central car auctions to snyone, There are far better companies to deal with in Scotland than Central, The only good thing they have is variety. I don't even step foot in the place I dislike it so much.

How come?

I buy a fair few up there and elsewhere in scotland and have yet to have any issues with the place or management other than it being a long day and taking ages for cars to run through.

BTW on a side note read a very informative post from you when I was starting up regarding 2 MOT Centres, paint shops etc a start up guide on trading if you like and found it incredibly useful and it all seemed to come together. Only just over a year into my own pitch but growing considerably and found that post useful in getting to where I am today.

So you might not realise you helped, but certainly did. Thanks.

[100hourweek]

Thats great im glad i could help out, I didnt have anyone to give me information when i started so i had to learn by my mistakes, Infact the people i knew in the trade would rather see you mess it up than help you, But that seems to be common with the motor trade.

The reasons i dont like central go back years, I used to go to the market at 16 and buy cars, Get people to pick them up and run them home, I was treated like rubbish by Central and never taken seriously, I continued to use them for about 5 years untill i become wiser and discovered travelling further afield away from Glasgow Where the cars were of better quality, Central very rarely declare who the vendor is, Unless its a big main agent, So your chances of buying a trade car with faults are alot higher.

They run cars to death for the vendors taking fake bids left right and centre, I know they have to make the most for the vendor but when its already into cap clean and its not a clean car they could back off.

The cash office staff are blatantly rude.

It's a pitty that i find them so hard to deal with if im honest as its on my doorstep, Im also like 2 of there employees who came from Manheim and Scott haliday is also a great guy aswell.

Maybe one day if i didnt have a better source for cars i would return but i doubt it for now.