'Trading As' ...
Discussion
I get the principle of a LTD co. being a seperate legal entity. I also get that a sole trader is an individual trading as 'x'. As well, I see a LTD co can trade as 'x'.
My question is; what defines the status of a 'trading as' company. Is it a bank account? Or can any individual / or LTD co begin trading as anything they want; and payments still be made to the individuals name or the LTD co name?
Example:
John Smith trades as 'JS1' but clients / customers pay money to John Smith (a seperate bank account wasn't set up for JS1). How is JS1 a company in any sense other than John Smith saying so...
Another example:
'Acme LTD' trades as 'Acme Consulting' and 'Acme Net'. But clients pay money to Acme LTD... what makes the 'trading names' anything other than just a front?
My question is; what defines the status of a 'trading as' company. Is it a bank account? Or can any individual / or LTD co begin trading as anything they want; and payments still be made to the individuals name or the LTD co name?
Example:
John Smith trades as 'JS1' but clients / customers pay money to John Smith (a seperate bank account wasn't set up for JS1). How is JS1 a company in any sense other than John Smith saying so...
Another example:
'Acme LTD' trades as 'Acme Consulting' and 'Acme Net'. But clients pay money to Acme LTD... what makes the 'trading names' anything other than just a front?
Eric Mc said:
It is a kind of "front" but it is not with any intent to deceive. It's just a form of branding.
So a LTD co or individual could trade under 30 different names with only one bank account. Clients to all activity under those 30 names pay into only one account (the individuals / or LTD co.s bank account).LDN said:
Eric Mc said:
It is a kind of "front" but it is not with any intent to deceive. It's just a form of branding.
So a LTD co or individual could trade under 30 different names with only one bank account. Clients to all activity under those 30 names pay into only one account (the individuals / or LTD co.s bank account).I've only ever come across business that have one "trading as" name - if they bother at all.
Most small limited companies do not use "trading as" names. They generally ensure that the name they chose for their company is something appropriate for what they do - if they feel that this is important for their business.
Most "trading as" type businesses are sole traders who want something a bit more descriptive that just "P Jones" or "S Smith".
It's easy to buy a "ready made" company off the shelf to save the administrative effort of setting it up yourself. That company already has a name that will have nothing to do with your business, say "Dogmuck Ltd".
You will use your own name for the business, say "The Sausage Machine", but your bank will probably form the title of your bank account as "Dogmuck Ltd, trading as The Sausage Machine".
Unless rules have changed since I was in the saddle, you will have to include the name Dogmuck Ltd somewhere on all your business stationery.
You will use your own name for the business, say "The Sausage Machine", but your bank will probably form the title of your bank account as "Dogmuck Ltd, trading as The Sausage Machine".
Unless rules have changed since I was in the saddle, you will have to include the name Dogmuck Ltd somewhere on all your business stationery.
I want to trade as numerous names but under one LTD co for the limited liability it offers. I don't want to open numerous bank accounts for my activities.
So if I personally own 5 properties, I don't want them at risk from any of my business activity and so a LTD co is the right way to go... correct? But - I want to trade as a few different names without having a bank account for each. There'd be one bank account in the LTD co name. Now, without having bank accounts for each activity, I'm not really 'trading' as that name; it's merely a name / brand being used for an activity; the trade part of the equation (exchange of money) would be the LTD co account.
I don't think Ive explained myself greatly. But in simple terms, how can one say that they are 'trading as' a name when any money being exchanged would never be in that name... it's not really trading as; so I suppose I'm trying to establish what is deemed as trading as.
If my activity is media related and I do music, web and film; I could set up a LTD co called 'Pistonz LTD' - I then want to use names for each activity - so 'Pistonz Music', 'Pistonz Web' and 'Pistonz Film' - I want to brand each of these names and invoices / letterheads would have their respective name on top - but all payments would be to the Pistonz LTD bank account. So are these extra names I'm using actual 'trading as' names or not?
So if I personally own 5 properties, I don't want them at risk from any of my business activity and so a LTD co is the right way to go... correct? But - I want to trade as a few different names without having a bank account for each. There'd be one bank account in the LTD co name. Now, without having bank accounts for each activity, I'm not really 'trading' as that name; it's merely a name / brand being used for an activity; the trade part of the equation (exchange of money) would be the LTD co account.
I don't think Ive explained myself greatly. But in simple terms, how can one say that they are 'trading as' a name when any money being exchanged would never be in that name... it's not really trading as; so I suppose I'm trying to establish what is deemed as trading as.
If my activity is media related and I do music, web and film; I could set up a LTD co called 'Pistonz LTD' - I then want to use names for each activity - so 'Pistonz Music', 'Pistonz Web' and 'Pistonz Film' - I want to brand each of these names and invoices / letterheads would have their respective name on top - but all payments would be to the Pistonz LTD bank account. So are these extra names I'm using actual 'trading as' names or not?
Most companies do this to an extent. Acme Products Ltd will probably call just call themselves Acme Products when they answer the phone and in their logo etc. Of course by law they need to list the company name on letterheads etc but generally on the whole you just refer to the brandname of which you can have as many as you like.
In fact splashing about the Ltd company part is something small companies tend to do more then big ones. Consider a company like Unilever. You probably have a few of their products in your kitchen but the only reference to them will be a small logo/bit of text on the back saying produced by Unilever UK Limited but of course all the branding etc will be Coleman's Mustard or whichever product.
On the flipside you can use one single brand accross various Ltd companies. If you look at a national express coach you'll see small writing on the side saying the name / address of the company that actually runs the service.
So in short you can have 30 different trading names if you like although you must always include the 'real' company name. From gov.uk
The only thing I'd say is that if you do have 30 trading names you're going to struggle to build a brand as your efforts are being spread that much thinner.
In fact splashing about the Ltd company part is something small companies tend to do more then big ones. Consider a company like Unilever. You probably have a few of their products in your kitchen but the only reference to them will be a small logo/bit of text on the back saying produced by Unilever UK Limited but of course all the branding etc will be Coleman's Mustard or whichever product.
On the flipside you can use one single brand accross various Ltd companies. If you look at a national express coach you'll see small writing on the side saying the name / address of the company that actually runs the service.
So in short you can have 30 different trading names if you like although you must always include the 'real' company name. From gov.uk
gov.uk said:
Stationery and promotional material
You must include your company’s name on all company documents, publicity and letters.
On business letters, order forms, invoices and websites, you must show:
the company’s registered number
its registered office address
where the company is registered (England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland)
the fact that it’s a limited company (usually by spelling out the company’s full name including ‘Limited’ or ‘Ltd’)
In terms of banking and invoicing you'd use the Ltd company name but you can put any name you want on the top so long as you have your LTd company name on there too. Companies House/HMRC will only care about the activities of the Ltd company - they won't be interested in your brands. For the brands you'll obviously need to adhere to regulations on passing off and trademarks but so long as you're not taking the piss you shouldn't have anything to worry about.You must include your company’s name on all company documents, publicity and letters.
On business letters, order forms, invoices and websites, you must show:
the company’s registered number
its registered office address
where the company is registered (England and Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland)
the fact that it’s a limited company (usually by spelling out the company’s full name including ‘Limited’ or ‘Ltd’)
The only thing I'd say is that if you do have 30 trading names you're going to struggle to build a brand as your efforts are being spread that much thinner.
Edited by rpguk on Saturday 7th March 12:02
LDN said:
I want to trade as numerous names but under one LTD co for the limited liability it offers. I don't want to open numerous bank accounts for my activities.
So if I personally own 5 properties, I don't want them at risk from any of my business activity and so a LTD co is the right way to go... correct? But - I want to trade as a few different names without having a bank account for each. There'd be one bank account in the LTD co name. Now, without having bank accounts for each activity, I'm not really 'trading' as that name; it's merely a name / brand being used for an activity; the trade part of the equation (exchange of money) would be the LTD co account.
I don't think Ive explained myself greatly. But in simple terms, how can one say that they are 'trading as' a name when any money being exchanged would never be in that name... it's not really trading as; so I suppose I'm trying to establish what is deemed as trading as.
If my activity is media related and I do music, web and film; I could set up a LTD co called 'Pistonz LTD' - I then want to use names for each activity - so 'Pistonz Music', 'Pistonz Web' and 'Pistonz Film' - I want to brand each of these names and invoices / letterheads would have their respective name on top - but all payments would be to the Pistonz LTD bank account. So are these extra names I'm using actual 'trading as' names or not?
I think you are on the path to confusion and failure, to be honest.So if I personally own 5 properties, I don't want them at risk from any of my business activity and so a LTD co is the right way to go... correct? But - I want to trade as a few different names without having a bank account for each. There'd be one bank account in the LTD co name. Now, without having bank accounts for each activity, I'm not really 'trading' as that name; it's merely a name / brand being used for an activity; the trade part of the equation (exchange of money) would be the LTD co account.
I don't think Ive explained myself greatly. But in simple terms, how can one say that they are 'trading as' a name when any money being exchanged would never be in that name... it's not really trading as; so I suppose I'm trying to establish what is deemed as trading as.
If my activity is media related and I do music, web and film; I could set up a LTD co called 'Pistonz LTD' - I then want to use names for each activity - so 'Pistonz Music', 'Pistonz Web' and 'Pistonz Film' - I want to brand each of these names and invoices / letterheads would have their respective name on top - but all payments would be to the Pistonz LTD bank account. So are these extra names I'm using actual 'trading as' names or not?
Eric Mc said:
I think you are on the path to confusion and failure, to be honest.
Why do you say that? His plan and reasoning sound OK legally to me - obviously it'd be wise to get things properly checked over as we don't have all the specifics to say it is fine but the rough logic seems fine.Edited by rpguk on Saturday 7th March 12:21
rpguk said:
Eric Mc said:
I think you are on the path to confusion and failure, to be honest.
Why do you say that? His plan and reasoning sound OK legally to me - obviously it'd be wise to get things properly checked over as we don't have all the specifics to say it is fine but the rough logic seems fine.Edited by rpguk on Saturday 7th March 12:21
insurance_jon said:
I have a couple or 3 trading names as a sole trader.
I just filled a form in with the bank stating what the are, and the bank accept cheques made payable to each of them in the same account
Ah! Interesting; this setup may be what I am after and I will ask my bank about this. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Whilst Eric is right about keeping things simple. I also like things all neat and tidy and so I'd like arms to my LTD co. The above setup may be what I need.I just filled a form in with the bank stating what the are, and the bank accept cheques made payable to each of them in the same account
Are the three separate trading names indicative of three separate trades? That is the implication.
If that is the case, before you embark on this route, please check with your accountant regarding the Corporation Tax and Accounting Disclosure rules that limited companies have to follow when running separate and distinct trades through one limited company.
If that is the case, before you embark on this route, please check with your accountant regarding the Corporation Tax and Accounting Disclosure rules that limited companies have to follow when running separate and distinct trades through one limited company.
Eric Mc said:
Are the three separate trading names indicative of three separate trades? That is the implication.
If that is the case, before you embark on this route, please check with your accountant regarding the Corporation Tax and Accounting Disclosure rules that limited companies have to follow when running separate and distinct trades through one limited company.
Noted.If that is the case, before you embark on this route, please check with your accountant regarding the Corporation Tax and Accounting Disclosure rules that limited companies have to follow when running separate and distinct trades through one limited company.
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