Fraudulent Card Use and Chargeback
Discussion
For the first time in seven years of trading I've had a chargeback for £563.14.
This was a normal looking online transaction processed via Sagepay and Cardnet and the goods were delivered to the "customer" a few days later.
I provided Cardnet with evidence of the transaction and a signed POD to a delivery address in Dagenham. I've looked at the property on Streetview and it's an innocuous looking semi detached.
Cardnet have now written saying they have reviewed the information I provided which unfortunately does not provide a remedy, it is evident that this relates to a fraudulent transaction not undertaken by the genuine card holder. So they confirmed that in accordance with their Full Recourse Agreement the debit to our bank account will stand.
So why does my company (and consequentially I) have to cover the full cost when Sagepay allowed the transaction to go through?
Is it worth involving the police?
Any ideas from anybody having experience of chargebacks would be appreciated.
This was a normal looking online transaction processed via Sagepay and Cardnet and the goods were delivered to the "customer" a few days later.
I provided Cardnet with evidence of the transaction and a signed POD to a delivery address in Dagenham. I've looked at the property on Streetview and it's an innocuous looking semi detached.
Cardnet have now written saying they have reviewed the information I provided which unfortunately does not provide a remedy, it is evident that this relates to a fraudulent transaction not undertaken by the genuine card holder. So they confirmed that in accordance with their Full Recourse Agreement the debit to our bank account will stand.
So why does my company (and consequentially I) have to cover the full cost when Sagepay allowed the transaction to go through?
Is it worth involving the police?
Any ideas from anybody having experience of chargebacks would be appreciated.
Taking card payments online and over the phone is a risk, if its a card holder not present transaction you are at risk of a chargback, we have lost thousands of pouds to fraud over the last few years.
Suppling proof of delivery, proof of transaction, even reporting it to the police is a waste of time, they dont want to know..
Suppling proof of delivery, proof of transaction, even reporting it to the police is a waste of time, they dont want to know..
Whats even more anoying is the fact that its us the seller that is always out of pocket, the card holder gets their money back, the fraudster has the goods and the bank and card issuer get away with it, they make the card holder think that they have made them a big favour refunding their money.
They even charge us an admin fee of £25 on top of wat you have lost!
They even charge us an admin fee of £25 on top of wat you have lost!
Trax8 said:
What's even more annoying is the fact that its us the seller that is always out of pocket, the card holder gets their money back, the fraudster has the goods and the bank and card issuer get away with it, they make the card holder think that they have made them a big favour refunding their money.
They even charge us an admin fee of £25 on top of what you have lost!
Yes, that's how it seems to me!They even charge us an admin fee of £25 on top of what you have lost!
Surely Sagepay tells you if the address the customer supplied at checkout matched the card billing address?
If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
grumbas said:
Surely Sagepay tells you if the address the customer supplied at checkout matched the card billing address?
If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
The addresses don't have to match for the transaction to go through. Many of my transactions have a different billing address from the delivery address. It's quite normal.If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
cuneus said:
What is going to prevent you from taking the payment processor to court ?
I don't want to get involved in that.When it comes down to it I suppose I've only lost the cost of the product which is about £350.
cuneus said:
What is going to prevent you from taking the payment processor to court ?
They go to get lengths to stress "it's nothing to do with us, guv".I used to run 3 credit cards but dropped one of them after the 3rd time it was compromised, and I rang one of the retailers, a jeweller, and the owner called me back and was absolutely gutted about it.
Other things that had gone through had been airline tickets and foreign exchange in a bank. Credit card company didn't seem to give a toss and it was very simple for me to deny the transactions and have the balance re-credited.
OP sorry to hear it, it happens but it can be reduced.
Anything over £200 needs a phone call, if no reply leave a message stating you have an address query - you see a pattern and get a sixth sense for it.
Your scenario today could be a simple mistake and must involve you calling the buyer to tell them you think a mistake has been made and they either agree and pay you or they put the phone down.
Anything over £200 needs a phone call, if no reply leave a message stating you have an address query - you see a pattern and get a sixth sense for it.
Your scenario today could be a simple mistake and must involve you calling the buyer to tell them you think a mistake has been made and they either agree and pay you or they put the phone down.
DSLiverpool said:
OP sorry to hear it, it happens but it can be reduced.
Anything over £200 needs a phone call, if no reply leave a message stating you have an address query - you see a pattern and get a sixth sense for it.
Your scenario today could be a simple mistake and must involve you calling the buyer to tell them you think a mistake has been made and they either agree and pay you or they put the phone down.
Thank you DS, the thing is my average online order is £510 so that would be a lot of calls considering it's the first chargeback in seven years. Cardholder not present telephone orders can be in the £5K-£6K region!Anything over £200 needs a phone call, if no reply leave a message stating you have an address query - you see a pattern and get a sixth sense for it.
Your scenario today could be a simple mistake and must involve you calling the buyer to tell them you think a mistake has been made and they either agree and pay you or they put the phone down.
However I've been lucky so far.
The cardholder lives in the USA so I don't think it's a mistake. However I do have a mobile number for the "buyer" so will ring it tomorrow to see what sort of response I get.
Edited by RegMolehusband on Sunday 22 March 12:02
Depends on what you sell, credit card fraudsters want to order goods that they can easilly sell on for cash, electrical products, power tools, designer/branded products etc. Gopro cameras is one example, we used to sell them and had so much problems with dodgy orders.
If you sell specialised items you are at less of a risk
If you sell specialised items you are at less of a risk
RegMolehusband said:
grumbas said:
Surely Sagepay tells you if the address the customer supplied at checkout matched the card billing address?
If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
The addresses don't have to match for the transaction to go through. Many of my transactions have a different billing address from the delivery address. It's quite normal.If it did and it matched I'd be going back to your bank and having an argument (the card holder will have signed a declaration they had nothing to do with the charge which is clearly rubbish if you delivered the goods to the cards billing address).
If it doesn't I'd be getting this check added asap! If you already have the check result visible but it didn't match then you may as well chalk this one up as experience.
You say in a later post the card is registered to an address in the USA yet you delivered the goods to an address in Dagenham? Whilst there are legitimate scenarios for that it would have been ringing alarm bells with me and as DS Liverpool says I'd have been verifying the transaction prior to shipping.
Presumably you don't have 3D secure enabled on your site?
I've just looked back at the online order notification. The billing address is the same as the delivery address in Dagenham. Yet the Capital One card is apparently registered to somebody call Ginger L. Proffitt according to the American fraud information form forwarded from Capital One by Cardnet.
I didn't have 3D secure enabled before this but I do now.
I didn't have 3D secure enabled before this but I do now.
KFC said:
cuneus said:
What is going to prevent you from taking the payment processor to court ?
A signed agreement with the payment processor saying that the seller eats the loss on card holder not present transactions?cuneus said:
Really ? (don't answer that) so there is no defined dispute procedure ?
There will be one but it looks here that the fact it was fraudulent is a near certainty, with an American card holder and a UK delivery address. Its not a 'fake' chargeback (someone using their own card then denying it). The OP needs to either put better measures in place to ensure this doesn't happen in the first place, or just accept that it'll happen every so often and factor it into his pricing. With a £350 loss being his first one in 7 years then I would assume the latter is the better option as things stand currently.
You would obviously want to keep a close eye on this now though. Since they're ripped him off once successfully so they might now see him as an easy target and try and push moire fraudulent orders through.
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