Disgruntled employee

[Jonny TVR]

528Sport said:

Can you put her number up on here so we can call her and have some fun?
Tempted .. do you want her facebook page?

seriously thou, I do hope this gets sorted for you.

have you thought about going to the local media, offer a reward for information. Is she on twitter or linkedin? on linkedin and I know she reads my emails but doesn't now reply

I do like the recruitment idea posted above..

[Jonny TVR]

528Sport said:

Can you put her number up on here so we can call her and have some fun?

seriously thou, I do hope this gets sorted for you.

have you thought about going to the local media, offer a reward for information. Is she on twitter or linkedin?

I do like the recruitment idea posted above..

also like this one

[singlecoil]

I don't think it's legal to impose a cash penalty without the other party's prior agreement.

[FlashmanChop]

I am assuming she still has a HMRC company car liability whilst she has this company car to ride around in.

[Jonny TVR]

FlashmanChop said:

I am assuming she still has a HMRC company car liability whilst she has this company car to ride around in.

Good point

[FlashmanChop]

Jonny TVR said:

Good point

forget which specific form it is but your accountant should be able to ensure he doesn't notify them that she has given the vehicle back as of yet...

[sgrimshaw]

I was out walking and was narrowly missed by a car being driven like a lunatic. How they also missed the party of primary school children crossing the road is beyond me.

To say I was shaken is an understatement.

Being psychic this will happen this afternoon .... I only hope I am able to remember the make, model, colour and registration number of the car and a vague description of the driver.

[bad company]

The op could also give this site a try. I have used it in the past with some success:-

http://www.192.com/people/?gclid=CMHgroWSm8UCFacSw...

Otherwise as I said previously I would be asking for a quote from a private investigator. I bet they would trace her, you may even be able to sue her for there fee.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Had this with a sales guy in the past, proper eccentric, told a few porkies, got caught out, was very well spoken

I was managing the European IT on my own, rest of my team were in USA, the Sales team (different department) sacked the guy from Sales but forgot to get his Iphone and Laptop, which were both brand new and worth circa £2000!

My US Boss wanted it all back and told me to SORT IT, the team that employed him didn't really care as he was gone, not their problem!

Phoned the guy up, he seemed pleasant, said he would return it. This carried on, always excuses etc etc... I then got a bit firmer and he started to cry down the phone!!

We had tracking and support clients on the laptop, so I set up an alert for next time it was turned on, after a couple of weeks, it turned on and I could view the screen from the office. He started looking at some "special interest" sites, then started googleing how to remove the support client and re-format the machine! I took control, opened up Word and put in size 72 font: "STOP BEING A PRICK, BRING BACK THE LAPTOP, OR I WILL TELL EVERYONE WHAT FILTH YOU LIKE". I then disabled it.

During all this, I called the non emergency police, explained the situation, they logged a call, assigned an officer, he went round the house, had a word, I got the laptop and phone back. Took a few weeks, as it wasn't top priority . Police did a great job and we had a laugh about all the excuses the guy had

Turned out we got away lightly, as the sales guy had ripped off a lot and mislead a lot of people, several who wanted their pound of flesh.

So OP, make sure the person is sacked, contact the police and report it stolen.

[KFC]

Jonny TVR said:

JustinP1 said:

At the moment you don't have leverage.

She's thinking, she'll get a new job, get a new car and phone then at some time in the future and just hand everything back (if you are still hassling her) in her own sweet time.

That costs her nothing. However, if you were leasing those items to her, then every day she has the use of a car, phone, and iPad costs her money.

So, send her a letter to the iPhone, telling here that the lease of the car, phone and iPad from the end of the week is £150 per week. Send it by letter to her last address too. Most people have a redirection.

Then she'll realise that her plan will rack herself up a bill.

Then, you can sue her for it.

Her only defence will be claiming she didn't see the letter, but then she'd have to explain to the court why on earth she was still keeping the car and stuff otherwise! The counter to that defence would be that in any case it's breach of her contract of employment in any case, and you can sue for losses.

If the debt's over £600, then the High Court Bailiffs will find her and take her stuff.

If it were me, and she was taking the piss in this way I would have no qualms against doing the above, and following through.

Not sure this would work in this case

It won't work no... but this is Pistonheads. Why let truth and facts get in the way

[dudleybloke]

Watch her social media activities like a hawk and you may get a clue where she is.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Excuse the ignorance, sped read it:
Do you have a spare key for the car?
Can you track the phone? If not contact the provider and get this sorted/setup other ways?

It cant be too hard to sort, track the phone, find the car, drive off with spare key . If its in a garage waiting might be involved

Have you found her profile on social media?

Is she on linkedin looking for work?

[KFC]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Excuse the ignorance, sped read it:
Do you have a spare key for the car?
Can you track the phone? If not contact the provider and get this sorted/setup other ways?

It cant be too hard to sort, track the phone, find the car, drive off with spare key . If its in a garage waiting might be involved

Have you found her profile on social media?

Is she on linkedin looking for work?

Honestly, if you're not going to bother reading a short thread then why bother replying?

[JustinP1]

KFC said:

Jonny TVR said:

JustinP1 said:

At the moment you don't have leverage.

She's thinking, she'll get a new job, get a new car and phone then at some time in the future and just hand everything back (if you are still hassling her) in her own sweet time.

That costs her nothing. However, if you were leasing those items to her, then every day she has the use of a car, phone, and iPad costs her money.

So, send her a letter to the iPhone, telling here that the lease of the car, phone and iPad from the end of the week is £150 per week. Send it by letter to her last address too. Most people have a redirection.

Then she'll realise that her plan will rack herself up a bill.

Then, you can sue her for it.

Her only defence will be claiming she didn't see the letter, but then she'd have to explain to the court why on earth she was still keeping the car and stuff otherwise! The counter to that defence would be that in any case it's breach of her contract of employment in any case, and you can sue for losses.

If the debt's over £600, then the High Court Bailiffs will find her and take her stuff.

If it were me, and she was taking the piss in this way I would have no qualms against doing the above, and following through.

Not sure this would work in this case

It won't work no... but this is Pistonheads. Why let truth and facts get in the way

The OP wants restitution for the losses which at best are going to be paying for her to run a car and phone. The above is the only way that is going to happen. The police won't take money out of her account to pay the car lease.

My way forward does not guarantee that she'll hand it all back, but it will make her think twice not doing so. It leaves three outcomes:

1) She doesn't want to end up with the leasing bill, so this is impetus to getting the stuff back. Happy days OP.

2) She ignores the warning, but the police find her in 6 months time. The way forward above gives a method of civil recovery of the losses - and he will then have the contact details.

3) It doesn't work and the police don't find her. So, he's no worse off.

[KFC]

JustinP1 said:

The OP wants restitution for the losses which at best are going to be paying for her to run a car and phone. The above is the only way that is going to happen. The police won't take money out of her account to pay the car lease.

My way forward does not guarantee that she'll hand it all back, but it will make her think twice not doing so. It leaves three outcomes:

1) She doesn't want to end up with the leasing bill, so this is impetus to getting the stuff back. Happy days OP.

2) She ignores the warning, but the police find her in 6 months time. The way forward above gives a method of civil recovery of the losses - and he will then have the contact details.

3) It doesn't work and the police don't find her. So, he's no worse off.

Do you really think you can just make up a contract with a random number on it, hear nothing back and say "okay thats a deal". then set legal enforcement on her when she inevitably doesn't pay it? If so, why stop at £150? Why not just say she's bought all the items outright and chase her for £20k?

[JustinP1]

KFC said:

JustinP1 said:

The OP wants restitution for the losses which at best are going to be paying for her to run a car and phone. The above is the only way that is going to happen. The police won't take money out of her account to pay the car lease.

My way forward does not guarantee that she'll hand it all back, but it will make her think twice not doing so. It leaves three outcomes:

1) She doesn't want to end up with the leasing bill, so this is impetus to getting the stuff back. Happy days OP.

2) She ignores the warning, but the police find her in 6 months time. The way forward above gives a method of civil recovery of the losses - and he will then have the contact details.

3) It doesn't work and the police don't find her. So, he's no worse off.

Do you really think you can just make up a contract with a random number on it, hear nothing back and say "okay thats a deal". then set legal enforcement on her when she inevitably doesn't pay it? If so, why stop at £150? Why not just say she's bought all the items outright and chase her for £20k?

Because that won't stick. He needs to provide the court with a reasonable figure for these reasons:

She can reject the agreement put to her by returning goods that are not hers. A reasonable figure shows legitimate intent at contract, as oppose to to a deterrent, which would be seen as unenforcible. Her failure to take positive action to avoid reasonable charges for goods she has no reason otherwise to have in her possession may very well stick.

Failing that, and it would come to the fact that this would be challenged (which I doubt), the OP has put a reasonable cost for the benefit that the woman is getting at the loss of the OP's business.

So, even if a contract could not be proven, he's put a figure on the losses from the breach of employment contract keeping the goods.

Failing even that, courts do actively stop unscrupulous people bettering themselves at others expense, and the third angle would be the imposition of a quasi-contract on the basis that there is no doubt that the woman actively chose to gain benefit from costly goods at anothers direct expense.


In terms of enforcement, if he starts soon, he could have judgment, even in default if she does not reply to her last known address in weeks. Once he has that, he can enforce, and the bailiffs will be much more proactive in finding her than the police will.

Edited by JustinP1 on Thursday 30th April 23:56

[KFC]

JustinP1 said:

Because that won't stick. He needs to provide the court with a reasonable figure for these reasons:

She can reject the agreement put to her by returning goods that are not hers. A reasonable figure shows legitimate intent at contract, as oppose to to a deterrent, which would be seen as unenforcible. Her failure to take positive action to avoid reasonable charges for goods she has no reason otherwise to have in her possession may very well stick.

She can also reject by refusing to respond to it in any way. If she does that, we're still back at the point of arguing whether its civil, or whether its theft. A fake £150 contract that the other party didn't agree to, realistically isn't going to help your case when you're in the right here.

[KFC]

JustinP1 said:

Because that won't stick. He needs to provide the court with a reasonable figure for these reasons:

She can reject the agreement put to her by returning goods that are not hers. A reasonable figure shows legitimate intent at contract, as oppose to to a deterrent, which would be seen as unenforcible. Her failure to take positive action to avoid reasonable charges for goods she has no reason otherwise to have in her possession may very well stick.

She can also reject by refusing to respond to it in any way. If she does that, we're still back at the point of arguing whether its civil, or whether its theft. A fake £150 contract that the other party didn't agree to, realistically isn't going to help your case when you're in the right here. If you did want to pursue it , you're going to need to prove the debt legitimately exists. Which you quite clearly can't do.

Good for a story on Pistonheads as what you might do; real world use of it = zero

[JustinP1]

KFC said:

JustinP1 said:

Because that won't stick. He needs to provide the court with a reasonable figure for these reasons:

She can reject the agreement put to her by returning goods that are not hers. A reasonable figure shows legitimate intent at contract, as oppose to to a deterrent, which would be seen as unenforcible. Her failure to take positive action to avoid reasonable charges for goods she has no reason otherwise to have in her possession may very well stick.

She can also reject by refusing to respond to it in any way. If she does that, we're still back at the point of arguing whether its civil, or whether its theft. A fake £150 contract that the other party didn't agree to, realistically isn't going to help your case when you're in the right here. If you did want to pursue it , you're going to need to prove the debt legitimately exists. Which you quite clearly can't do.

Good for a story on Pistonheads as what you might do; real world use of it = zero

Of course you can prove the debt exists, and you've conveniently avoided the reasoning.

The debt can be proven from:

1) Enforcement of a contract sent to the woman, which outlines failure to return goods as acceptance, or

2) Losses from breach of employment contract, or

3) Imposition of a quasi-contract to account for the blatant unjust enrichment the woman has engineered at the expense of the OP.


The point is if the police don't bring his car and stuff back, what option does he have?

A judgment, even by default, and a writ of Fieri Facias at a cost of £70 will mean that High Court bailiffs will find her and recover goods to cover the judgment, as well and enforcing the return of the goods in question. The worst case scenario is she claims she did not get the paperwork, but clearly, at that point she knows the gig is up.

If it were my stuff, that is what I would do. And before you talk about 'real world' - I can tell you long personal stories both about employing High Court bailiffs, and about a successful argument of a quasi-contract in litigation, if you are really interested.

I can also direct you to a PHer who I assisted previously in recovering debt, and he'll show you the letter his High Court bailiffs sent him about what happened when his debtors wok up at 7am to find their car already on a low-loader.


Or of course, the OP could just say 'fk it' and call the police once a week to see if they've found her, and as the months go on hope she still has the car, iPad and iPhone and will give it back and not sold or lost them.

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 1st May 00:24

[jimmyjimjim]

JustinP1 said:

I can also direct you to a PHer who I assisted previously in recovering debt, and he'll show you the letter his High Court bailiffs sent him about what happened when his debtors wok up at 7am to find their car already on a low-loader.

Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 1st May 00:24

Would love to read this!