Would a Facebook conversation count as a contract?

[Shuvi McTupya]

If someone asked for a quote for services via Facebook and an estimate is given and accepted, would that be considered as a contract if,mfor example the customer changed their minds after the contractor has bought all the materials?

This has not happened to me but I am starting to get approached for jobs through Facebook..

[poing]

Don't see how it's different to an email conversation so if that can be considered a contract then so can a Facebook conversation.

[minitici]

There is a subtle difference between a "quotation" and an "estimate".
That aside, if the contract is a B2C then the distance selling regulations would apply and certain information regarding cancellation periods etc must be provided.

[Shuvi McTupya]

If it helps, the quote in this case would be for the supply and fit of blinds, so I would have to purchase the blinds once the quote is accepted.

[minitici]

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...

Here is a basic guide to the latest Consumer Contract Regulations applicable to B2C transactions.

With your blinds, are they custom made to customer size are they 'off-the-shelf' sizes/colours?
If they are truly 'custom made' then these cannot be cancelled by the customer.

[Shuvi McTupya]

They are all made to measure , thanks for that

[Jasandjules]

Facebook is no different to any other medium, it is just a written contract. If all the "ingredients" are there, then a contract has been formed.

[Simpo Two]

I agree. But if you wanted to drag your business back to reality and not cyberspace, you could always send them one of them old-stylee letters, yee-hah.

E-mails are certainly admissible as evidence, because I used them and they worked. Amusingly, the not-awfully-bright defendant used the same ones!

[Shuvi McTupya]

Simpo, I don't understand how me sending a quote or letter in the post would count as a contract between me and my customer?

What would stop me sending out unsolicited quotes?

[rich12]

Surely anything custom then you get the money upfront before ordering??

[akirk]

Why not email them your terms / contract, ask them to sign it and either fax back / scan & email / post back...
A big potential issue with electronic conversations is that the customer doesn't feel that they have committed - so they can pull out...
Signing a document means they feel committed...

Also consider getting an up front payment to cover materials / bespoke work - then they are on the hook, not you

[Simpo Two]

Shuvi McTupya said:

Simpo, I don't understand how me sending a quote or letter in the post would count as a contract between me and my customer?

What would stop me sending out unsolicited quotes?

The quote itself isn't the contract, it's when/if they accept it.

What's needed when it all goes pear-shaped is a trail of evidence - in my view anything in writing, but not verbal.

[Shuvi McTupya]

I am just starting out, so learning the ropes.

I agree that I should be getting up front deposits, I will do that from now on!

[JustinP1]

As has been said, a Facebook conversation can be as binding as any other.

The issue is that the customer may have the misconception that because they've not signed anything, and its 'just' Facebook, that they can order something then change their mind.

Also, don't underestimate the cost in terms of admin, and lost money from people not paying you, not paying you on time, you chasing them, and sometimes not getting paid at all.

If the sum you're talking about are relatively small, your Facebook profile should make clear that payment up front in full (like you do at most shops) is not a risk, and is the norm.

[Shuvi McTupya]

I hope that I won't have issues with people not paying on time, as my policy is that I expect to be paid upon installation, there is no ' payable within 90 days' ste

[Simpo Two]

JustinP1 said:

As has been said, a Facebook conversation can be as binding as any other.

The issue is that the customer may have the misconception that because they've not signed anything, and its 'just' Facebook, that they can order something then change their mind.

Yep. I've never had to use FB to get business but I'd want to get the work out of 'Facebookland' and into reality before starting anything. Real names, real addresses etc.

[akirk]

Shuvi McTupya said:

I hope that I won't have issues with people not paying on time, as my policy is that I expect to be paid upon installation, there is no ' payable within 90 days' ste

don't believe it
the time when the customer is keenest to pay is before they have the product / service - once they have it, where is the urgency to pay?

with installation of blinds you need to separate out the cost of the items / your time - at the minimum, charge for the cost of the blinds xx days before fitting, and then charge for your time once fitted.

make payment terms very clear and explain how you will take payment - are you happy to take cheques? - cash on the day - credit cards (you can get different solutions now that plug into your phone, e.g. iZettle / paypal here / etc.

make it easy for them to pay, and difficult to avoid paying - otherwise you will add a large cost onto your business chasing payments

[Simpo Two]

akirk said:

the time when the customer is keenest to pay is before they have the product / service - once they have it, where is the urgency to pay?

Indeed. It really comes down to the honesty of the customer. An honest customer will say 'You have fitted my blinds, thank you, here is the money'. A dishonest customer will either not pay, or make up reasons not to (assuming there are none).

If you are trading B2B then it's rather better, as they're not spending their own money and POs generally get paid, though rarely within your terms!

[Shuvi McTupya]

R

akirk said:

don't believe it
the time when the customer is keenest to pay is before they have the product / service - once they have it, where is the urgency to pay?

with installation of blinds you need to separate out the cost of the items / your time - at the minimum, charge for the cost of the blinds xx days before fitting, and then charge for your time once fitted.

make payment terms very clear and explain how you will take payment - are you happy to take cheques? - cash on the day - credit cards (you can get different solutions now that plug into your phone, e.g. iZettle / paypal here / etc.

make it easy for them to pay, and difficult to avoid paying - otherwise you will add a large cost onto your business chasing payments

I am happy to take anything they have, took delivery of my Izettle machine the other day

[Asterix]

akirk said:

Why not email them your terms / contract, ask them to sign it and either fax back / scan & email / post back...
A big potential issue with electronic conversations is that the customer doesn't feel that they have committed - so they can pull out...
Signing a document means they feel committed...

Also consider getting an up front payment to cover materials / bespoke work - then they are on the hook, not you

Yeah - this basically.

Do all the sales and prelims on Facebook but then email them a proper quotation with Ts&Cs, payment terms etc... and get them to sign and scan back, then issue an invoice and make sure you get at least a nominal deposit. However, if I was shelling out money to pay for goods then I'd be looking at having at least 50% up front, rest payable on satisfactory completion. If they don't agree then they're not going to be serious.

What will sink a business isn't normally a lack of clients per se, you can usually match your overheads to work going on - but if you've spent cash buying materials and you have a few debters then your cashflow will be terrible - without cashflow you can't buy stuff for the next job, pay your fitters, bills, VAT etc.. it's a downward spiral that effects many aspects.