Business development manager, sales, marketing person ?
Discussion
I am possibly looking for someone to work with me on putting clear and precise structures in place for our business.
We have no sales staff, no marketing structure, and all of our business is word of mouth or strength of brand in a very niche sector, and we are doing ok, seven figure t/o, 20+ staff.
We are exceptionally good at “making things”, or piecing together how to make things, from sketch on paper, prototype to full production if required.
I won’t go into great detail on here but what we are not so good at is clear structure for sales and marketing. I have been told it’s because we are “typically eccentric engineers & creative types” whatever that means!
We have the infrastructure and skills to go so many directions but I need to find a solution for reigning in and clearly structuring or splitting the business into several different areas/markets/services.
I really do not want to use an external consultants, from experience these are generally failed business people who talk straight from text books, I can do theoretical business myself.
I have also had bad experiences with employment “specialists” who are generally clueless and have no idea how to filter top end candidates from the chaff.
I would ideally like to employ someone to join the team who can really see the potential and get their teeth into things and see a positive future for themselves, not just turn up on day one demanding a huge salary and car for doing “stuff”.
Just throwing ideas on the table at the moment, no clear idea where to go with this and welcome any pointers. This is a rant going around in my head as much as anything else at the moment and I need to share.
Thanks
We have no sales staff, no marketing structure, and all of our business is word of mouth or strength of brand in a very niche sector, and we are doing ok, seven figure t/o, 20+ staff.
We are exceptionally good at “making things”, or piecing together how to make things, from sketch on paper, prototype to full production if required.
I won’t go into great detail on here but what we are not so good at is clear structure for sales and marketing. I have been told it’s because we are “typically eccentric engineers & creative types” whatever that means!
We have the infrastructure and skills to go so many directions but I need to find a solution for reigning in and clearly structuring or splitting the business into several different areas/markets/services.
I really do not want to use an external consultants, from experience these are generally failed business people who talk straight from text books, I can do theoretical business myself.
I have also had bad experiences with employment “specialists” who are generally clueless and have no idea how to filter top end candidates from the chaff.
I would ideally like to employ someone to join the team who can really see the potential and get their teeth into things and see a positive future for themselves, not just turn up on day one demanding a huge salary and car for doing “stuff”.
Just throwing ideas on the table at the moment, no clear idea where to go with this and welcome any pointers. This is a rant going around in my head as much as anything else at the moment and I need to share.
Thanks
dispite a reluctance to have 'consultants' in:
and only the bad consultants are failed business wannabees! there are plenty of people around who have started / run / grown businesses successfully and who now help others...
BGARK said:
We have the infrastructure and skills to go so many directions but I need to find a solution for reigning in and clearly structuring or splitting the business into several different areas/markets/services.
it does sound as though you might find it useful to start by looking at your direction a little more strategically - a half day / day with someone who can look at what you do / where you want to get to / what is worth focusing on & what should be discarded / etc. might be a very good starting point - that should then give the structure to bring in the right person to implement it - but your average sales / BD person might not be used to thinking so strategically...and only the bad consultants are failed business wannabees! there are plenty of people around who have started / run / grown businesses successfully and who now help others...
Edited by akirk on Thursday 28th May 09:58
Yes, define thd aims, goals, direction first. Having worked with, shall we say "pure ideas" people, its hard as the goals keep changing and obtaining results can become very challenging. They may not last long in the position, and youd be asking what is wrong with people, why cant they stick at thd job, not dynamic enough, etc efc when they need time with the product,build long termrelationships.
Howeverm, having ideas people at the top, rather then, errr, process people is very useful as you can respond to customers needs quickly and often innovatively. Several successful businesses I know are a result of someone being able to say "we can do that" and deliverung on their actions with a client. purdidess peoplecan do that.
Pm me if you like and i'll think some more
Howeverm, having ideas people at the top, rather then, errr, process people is very useful as you can respond to customers needs quickly and often innovatively. Several successful businesses I know are a result of someone being able to say "we can do that" and deliverung on their actions with a client. purdidess peoplecan do that.
Pm me if you like and i'll think some more
A good sales person will not be a good marketing person
A good marketing person will not be a good sales person
Etc.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get someone who can do all of these things well. IMO I'd set up a marketing programme with an agency and then make sure you have a good in-bound sales person to manage the leads.
A good marketing person will not be a good sales person
Etc.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get someone who can do all of these things well. IMO I'd set up a marketing programme with an agency and then make sure you have a good in-bound sales person to manage the leads.
Frimley111R said:
A good sales person will not be a good marketing person
A good marketing person will not be a good sales person
Etc.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get someone who can do all of these things well. IMO I'd set up a marketing programme with an agency and then make sure you have a good in-bound sales person to manage the leads.
A good marketing person will not be a good sales person
Etc.
Don't make the mistake of thinking you can get someone who can do all of these things well. IMO I'd set up a marketing programme with an agency and then make sure you have a good in-bound sales person to manage the leads.
Or hire 2-3 people. A director to guide the business, a marketing specialist and a sales type to manage enquiries. Mind you, it depends on the product/service. You might not need someone to convert leads.You need a good strategy manager or a NED, someone who can look at the business and say 'this is what we do and we do it well' and crucially 'this is what we dont do, even if we could do it'
They will probably be part time, as and when needed but will keep an eye on what the company goals are, and if needs be help define them. Good ones are rare, you might find the IoD can help, but watch out for those who're waiting for an invite to Dragons Den (they'll never get one).
I dont think a sales/marketing person or persons will help you, you're about 3 steps away from them at the moment as they'll sell/market anything they can to get a result that keeps them in a job, all the while you're adding resource and changing the way the company moves
They will probably be part time, as and when needed but will keep an eye on what the company goals are, and if needs be help define them. Good ones are rare, you might find the IoD can help, but watch out for those who're waiting for an invite to Dragons Den (they'll never get one).
I dont think a sales/marketing person or persons will help you, you're about 3 steps away from them at the moment as they'll sell/market anything they can to get a result that keeps them in a job, all the while you're adding resource and changing the way the company moves
andy-xr said:
You need a good strategy manager or a NED, someone who can look at the business and say 'this is what we do and we do it well' and crucially 'this is what we dont do, even if we could do it'
They will probably be part time, as and when needed but will keep an eye on what the company goals are, and if needs be help define them. Good ones are rare, you might find the IoD can help, but watch out for those who're waiting for an invite to Dragons Den (they'll never get one).
I dont think a sales/marketing person or persons will help you, you're about 3 steps away from them at the moment as they'll sell/market anything they can to get a result that keeps them in a job, all the while you're adding resource and changing the way the company moves
Good points, thanks. I have no idea what a NED is though?They will probably be part time, as and when needed but will keep an eye on what the company goals are, and if needs be help define them. Good ones are rare, you might find the IoD can help, but watch out for those who're waiting for an invite to Dragons Den (they'll never get one).
I dont think a sales/marketing person or persons will help you, you're about 3 steps away from them at the moment as they'll sell/market anything they can to get a result that keeps them in a job, all the while you're adding resource and changing the way the company moves
I do agree with other points on here about sales/marketing people. Perhaps I should have removed from the title and left just business development or strategy manager.
BGARK said:
Good points, thanks. I have no idea what a NED is though?
I do agree with other points on here about sales/marketing people. Perhaps I should have removed from the title and left just business development or strategy manager.
A non exec director, search the NXD forums online, it might be worth having an initial chat with a few and seeing if that's actually what you want or what the business needs are. I do agree with other points on here about sales/marketing people. Perhaps I should have removed from the title and left just business development or strategy manager.
The thing is, you probably need someone fairly impartial and objective. Anyone you actually employ who's earning a salary is going to be favouring what they want to do over anything else.
andy-xr said:
The thing is, you probably need someone fairly impartial and objective. Anyone you actually employ who's earning a salary is going to be favouring what they want to do over anything else.
BGARK said:
Hoofy said:
Or hire 2-3 people. 
BGARK said:
Catch 22, I am better with machines than people!
From a marketing perspective, then I'd be making sure the website is s
t hot at converting leads to orders and that the google adwords is also st hot at driving relevant traffic to your site. You'll have to learn to become good at GA and web development!BGARK said:
"st hot", I think that will be on all my stationary from now onwards...
Surprised it isn't. You need to tell potential customers how good your product is whether they want to know or not. t hot", I think that will be on all my stationary from now onwards...Oh, and make sure whoever you hire uses "engage" and "challenge" on rotation once for every 5 minutes that he talks.
Edited by Hoofy on Thursday 28th May 16:12
BGARK said:
Frimley111R said:
set up a marketing programme with an agency
How many agencies would do this on a commission / ROI basis?Perhaps all I'd add to this is, choose an agency with a focus on the commercial element of marketing, not just a design/website agency. Make sure you are dealing with marketing experts, not simply website designers, PPC specialists if you are looking for a programme/strategy/direction.
Frimley111R said:
BGARK said:
Frimley111R said:
set up a marketing programme with an agency
How many agencies would do this on a commission / ROI basis?Perhaps all I'd add to this is, choose an agency with a focus on the commercial element of marketing, not just a design/website agency. Make sure you are dealing with marketing experts, not simply website designers, PPC specialists if you are looking for a programme/strategy/direction.
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