Buying from China nerves

Buying from China nerves

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Quattromaster

Original Poster:

2,904 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Afternoon fellow Pistonheader's.

I'm looking to buy a new machine for use within my company, and have 2 choices of where to buy from

Option one is from a company in Yorkshire, machine costs £32,000 plus vat and delivery from Yorkshire

Option two is the same machine, direct from the company that make it, in China, cost $17,500 which seems to be about £11,500, plus of course delivery, and I presume some kind of import tax, and I presume that's it, though I am guessing I would have to arrange to collect from docks.

So, first question is am I missing something, is there any other costs I'm not aware of, and if so what are they. And how would I know what the "import" duties will be.

Also, if buying from China they want 30% when placing order, and remaining 70% in the 7 days leading up to shipment, now the company look legit, but this will be the first time I have sent money overseas for something that's not going to arrive for I'd guess 2-3 months.

I'm sure in the world of Pistonheads there is money being sent the world over for goods and services,all the time, it's just my first time and makes me very nervous, so any pointers on what to look out for, and what to avoid.

Welcome any advice at all folks. Thank you.

dudleybloke

19,718 posts

185 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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What machine is it?

Quattromaster

Original Poster:

2,904 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
dudleybloke said:
What machine is it?
Sorry, knew I should have put what it is, duh.

It's a lathe, approx 2600 kg, 3120×1810×2350 in its wooden crate

Crusoe

4,068 posts

230 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
If it is business critical would you be able to get the Chinese one fixed in the uk, does it come with any backup? Have you asked the UK company if it would match or get closer to the Chinese price (after you add import duty and tax on top - check the website [url]https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff[/ulr])

anothernameitist

1,500 posts

134 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
What about if it goes wrong or wong if you get it from China?

Would the Yorkshire company come out and repair Free of charge on warranty irrespective of where you sourced it or charge you.

Think you need to get a price from a shipping agent and advice of what yiu might pay all in for the Chinese example only then can yuo make a more informed decision.

Are you able to get the machine from elsewhere in Europe too

Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Presumably you're VAT registered so the VAT is irrelevant really, it's just the delivery cost and import duty that you're concerning yourself with?

The Import Duty is something that HMRC would tell you, I don't have the link to hand but there's a website (.gov I think) that you can use to estimate what the percentage would be. At a guess, it's likely to be in the 12-20% range.

There's also a small admin fee from the carriage agent which they levy as they are the ones usually who would collect the duty and VAT on behalf of the Government. It's generally not a huge fee though.

Otherwise, an upfront fee and the remainder just before delivery seems fairly normal. I've done a few transactions like this fairly recently, albeit nothing for quite as much as your amount, but it seems to be the usual method.

The only thing with buying directly from China is that in the event of warranty claims, you have to post stuff directly back to them. It's not that difficult, but is expensive and time consuming.

Thurbs

2,780 posts

221 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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You may want to get it insured... many containers fall off the top of ships.

sgrimshaw

7,311 posts

249 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
They may be the company which makes the lathe, but can you be certain you'll get the same quality as the one from Yorkshire.

What recompense will you have if the machine is not as you expect?

Assume no warranty from China, if it goes wrong they are unlike to want to know.

Price difference would bother me.

What added value is there from buying from the Yorkshire company. If you can buy one for just a bit more than a third of the UK price, you can bet the Yorkshire company gets them cheaper.

If they truly are the same lathe, same quality etc, then they've got a 200% markup - and that is a hell of a lot ... I'd be wary.

E36GUY

5,906 posts

217 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Super Slo Mo said:
The only thing with buying directly from China is that in the event of warranty claims, you have to post stuff directly back to them. It's not that difficult, but is expensive and time consuming.
What he said. I wouldn't buy unless you've been able to test and assess quality and performance of the finished article. So much out of China is cheap for a reason and has little to do with labour costs being lower. Badly designed copies using inferior materials and unsafe electricals being the most prevalent.

If something is wrong on delivery, it breaks or is simply crap, you'll have borderline zero recourse and that money has gone.

Quattromaster

Original Poster:

2,904 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Many thanks for all the pointers folks, lots to think about.

I'm presuming its the same machine as I went to look at the one in Yorkshire, and although it's branded with the Uk company name, on looking inside the electric box I noticed the company "crispy duck ltd", on researching them more I found they produce lathes, and looking at pictures its the same product, even the spec sheets are the same.

They say there is a 12 month warranty but I'm sure that does not count for much when 6000 miles away.

Think I need to get a price for shipping and import tax and see if its still worth the risk.

BGARK

5,493 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
If you have the skills to determine the difference, does the UK company change/upgrade components that are crap in China but a must here, such as certain electrical parts or add ons, ie does it have a DRO etc?

If so get on a plane and physically watch them package your machine in the crate, worth a few hundred quid and China is always worth a visit if you have never been!

Do you have a link or picture?

BGARK

5,493 posts

245 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Also what are you making exactly?

These are great machines: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Herbert-7-Preoptive-caps...


Super Slo Mo

5,368 posts

197 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
E36GUY said:
Super Slo Mo said:
The only thing with buying directly from China is that in the event of warranty claims, you have to post stuff directly back to them. It's not that difficult, but is expensive and time consuming.
What he said. I wouldn't buy unless you've been able to test and assess quality and performance of the finished article. So much out of China is cheap for a reason and has little to do with labour costs being lower. Badly designed copies using inferior materials and unsafe electricals being the most prevalent.

If something is wrong on delivery, it breaks or is simply crap, you'll have borderline zero recourse and that money has gone.
To be fair to them, my Chinese suppliers have been very good from an after sales point of view, it's just that it's a pain and is quite costly to return goods to them to repair.
I should mention that this is for relatively cheap and small items of a few hundred quid each, not lathes at £11k plus smile

uk_vette

3,336 posts

203 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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Go for it.
Get the one made in China.
Get your summed costings.
Visit China for a business / holiday

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
A single spindle horizontal lathe for metal will attract 2.70% duty on the CIF value of the goods.

https://www.gov.uk/trade-tariff/commodities/845811...

CIF is the cost of the goods, the cost of the freight, and the cost of the insurance combined.

matjk

1,101 posts

139 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
Cant stress this enough, if you go the china route make sure you arrange the shipping, get door to door shipping and book it from the UK, you cant simply collect form the docks and £££££ of additional costs are added, if you ask for a price from the chinese you will likely get a silly low quote, DONT be tempted it will cost way more in the long run. I can recommend a company if it helps that we use to import all our stuff. I made the costly mistake of not using them once and getting the Chinese to do it, when the machine arrived in the UK we had been charged 7 times what they quoted for things like unloading charges, storage charges. These fees are non-negotiable, don't pay and the bill goes up and they have your stuff.

Jonnas

1,004 posts

162 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
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What machines are you looking to buy specifically?

spikeyhead

17,224 posts

196 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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Buy two if the Chinese ones. Use one for spares.

GnuBee

1,272 posts

214 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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What sort of lathe - with that cost I'm guessing CNC? If so I'd definitely want to buy in country to make sure I get full access to a support network. Your saving could disappear in a puff of white smoke if a servo goes down and you need to pay by the hour to fix it whilst production stops...

Quattromaster

Original Poster:

2,904 posts

203 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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The lathe in question is to be used for alloy wheel refurbishing, I already have a HAAS cnc at one site, and an old Colchester with copier at another, the HAAS is massive overkill for what it does, and the Colchester is, shall we say, hard work.

I'm hoping this one will fit in nicely between the others. With regard to flying out to China to take a look, I would love to, however, and this is by no means an excuse but I'm a wheelchair user, so any trip needs lots of planning and isn't really an option on my own.

Here's some pictures of the 2 lathes in question, pic with water mark is the one from China.






I'm sure you will all agree they look the same product.