4 year rule - Build without planning?????
Discussion
13m said:
Billsnemesis said:
13m said:
KrazyIvan said:
Circumnavigating planning permission is one thing, building regs are another altogether.
He may well be able to build an out building with out the planning permission, but he won't be able to live in it. Plus he will need to make sure that at no point does any one shop him into the planning office if he does live in it.
In short........it's unlikely his plan will work the way he thinks it's going to.
Yes building regs are quite another thing. They are only enforceable for TWO years.He may well be able to build an out building with out the planning permission, but he won't be able to live in it. Plus he will need to make sure that at no point does any one shop him into the planning office if he does live in it.
In short........it's unlikely his plan will work the way he thinks it's going to.
There is no limitation period on breach of building regs and if you get caught out you have to bring them up to the standard which applies when the error is discovered not the regs that applied when the work was done. So if the regs are changed then you have to include all of the subsequent changes up to the point where you put it right.
On planning there are two limitation periods. The four year period applies to breaches involving use for residential purposes while it is ten years for everything else.
The recent case of the house behind the hay bales was a deliberate attempt to hide residential development and wait out the four year period. Under the law at the time I thought he might have got away with it but the court decided it was just too much of a p**s take and the legislation was changed to hammer the point home.
The enforcement period for regs is 2 years, there's no enforcement possible after that. Planning is 4 years for development, 10 years for change of use. To the best of my knowledge the hay bales castle would not have passed muster even when it was built because it was deliberately concealed.
But would you buy a building if you knew that there was a breach of building regs? You may not be prosecuted but I would not want to buy a problem and if you start correcting work done wrongly in, say, the 1970's then that constitutes new work and has to comply with 2015 requirements.
Hence the earlier comment.
Billsnemesis said:
To a degree you are right. The two year limit applies to Section 35 and 35A prosecutions against the person doing the work - usually the contractor. There is a separate 12 month period for enforcement against the owner under Section 36 so in terms of prosecution your time limits are correct.
But would you buy a building if you knew that there was a breach of building regs? You may not be prosecuted but I would not want to buy a problem and if you start correcting work done wrongly in, say, the 1970's then that constitutes new work and has to comply with 2015 requirements.
Hence the earlier comment.
But would you buy a building if you knew that there was a breach of building regs? You may not be prosecuted but I would not want to buy a problem and if you start correcting work done wrongly in, say, the 1970's then that constitutes new work and has to comply with 2015 requirements.
Hence the earlier comment.
It's not a question of degrees, building regs cannot be enforced after two years. Full stop. So I am not sure where you got the idea that they are enforceable in perpetuity and to ever more onerous standards.
Would I buy a building if there had been a breach of building regs? Yes and have done many times.
If a building has had works completed without regs there are options. These range between doing nothing, if enforcement is not possible and the work is basically safe. to correcting the work and having it regularised by a Local Authority.
13m said:
Billsnemesis said:
To a degree you are right. The two year limit applies to Section 35 and 35A prosecutions against the person doing the work - usually the contractor. There is a separate 12 month period for enforcement against the owner under Section 36 so in terms of prosecution your time limits are correct.
But would you buy a building if you knew that there was a breach of building regs? You may not be prosecuted but I would not want to buy a problem and if you start correcting work done wrongly in, say, the 1970's then that constitutes new work and has to comply with 2015 requirements.
Hence the earlier comment.
But would you buy a building if you knew that there was a breach of building regs? You may not be prosecuted but I would not want to buy a problem and if you start correcting work done wrongly in, say, the 1970's then that constitutes new work and has to comply with 2015 requirements.
Hence the earlier comment.
It's not a question of degrees, building regs cannot be enforced after two years. Full stop. So I am not sure where you got the idea that they are enforceable in perpetuity and to ever more onerous standards.
Would I buy a building if there had been a breach of building regs? Yes and have done many times.
If a building has had works completed without regs there are options. These range between doing nothing, if enforcement is not possible and the work is basically safe. to correcting the work and having it regularised by a Local Authority.
I could see how it was built as there were crawl/storage spaces all around it. It certainly looked sound, in fact it looked like the original house had been built with a prepared empty loft shell (original 8 inch floor joists, cut roof, windows etc).
I walked away as I didn't want any hassle down the line.
shopper150 said:
Interesting thread. I thought he 4 year rule only applied if you have also been paying council tax on said building?
Are there any consultants etc that can help guide through such a process?
As far as I am aware, the four year rule applies to any development.Are there any consultants etc that can help guide through such a process?
A planning consultant is the chap you'd want if looking for formal advice.
So said:
shopper150 said:
Interesting thread. I thought he 4 year rule only applied if you have also been paying council tax on said building?
Are there any consultants etc that can help guide through such a process?
As far as I am aware, the four year rule applies to any development.Are there any consultants etc that can help guide through such a process?
A planning consultant is the chap you'd want if looking for formal advice.
To explain: if you have an existing house, the curtilage is already established as 'residential use'.
If you erect a building within the curtilage and use it for purposes 'incidental to the enjoyment of the house' (ie. the building is used for something that the land has already got permission for - and a domestic garage would be acceptable in that regard), then after 4 years the building would become 'lawful'.
If you erected the same domestic garage, or a house, on an open field (which would have agricultural land use), you're not merely adding a building to the existing use, you're actually changing the use of the land... and in that situation it takes ten years, without enforcement action, for the use to become lawful.
98elise said:
That's interesting as I passed up on a house a few years ago because it was a bungalow with a loft conversion that didn't have BR approval.
I could see how it was built as there were crawl/storage spaces all around it. It certainly looked sound, in fact it looked like the original house had been built with a prepared empty loft shell (original 8 inch floor joists, cut roof, windows etc).
I walked away as I didn't want any hassle down the line.
How many Georgian town houses were built without any reference to building regs at all?I could see how it was built as there were crawl/storage spaces all around it. It certainly looked sound, in fact it looked like the original house had been built with a prepared empty loft shell (original 8 inch floor joists, cut roof, windows etc).
I walked away as I didn't want any hassle down the line.
Its a bit mad to assume just because it never had building regs rubber stamp approval, that it does not meet them or is unsafe.
was8v said:
How many Georgian town houses were built without any reference to building regs at all?
Its a bit mad to assume just because it never had building regs rubber stamp approval, that it does not meet them or is unsafe.
Your faith that someone who would build a house without planning permission would build to a standard that meets current building regulations requirements is stronger than mine.Its a bit mad to assume just because it never had building regs rubber stamp approval, that it does not meet them or is unsafe.
Equus said:
The four year rule applies to all buildings. It's 10 years for land use.
To explain: if you have an existing house, the curtilage is already established as 'residential use'.
If you erect a building within the curtilage and use it for purposes 'incidental to the enjoyment of the house' (ie. the building is used for something that the land has already got permission for - and a domestic garage would be acceptable in that regard), then after 4 years the building would become 'lawful'.
If you erected the same domestic garage, or a house, on an open field (which would have agricultural land use), you're not merely adding a building to the existing use, you're actually changing the use of the land... and in that situation it takes ten years, without enforcement action, for the use to become lawful.
Thank you for your post, i found it very usefull. To explain: if you have an existing house, the curtilage is already established as 'residential use'.
If you erect a building within the curtilage and use it for purposes 'incidental to the enjoyment of the house' (ie. the building is used for something that the land has already got permission for - and a domestic garage would be acceptable in that regard), then after 4 years the building would become 'lawful'.
If you erected the same domestic garage, or a house, on an open field (which would have agricultural land use), you're not merely adding a building to the existing use, you're actually changing the use of the land... and in that situation it takes ten years, without enforcement action, for the use to become lawful.
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