Chinese ebay seller listing some other companies VAT number

Chinese ebay seller listing some other companies VAT number

Author
Discussion

mickytruelove

Original Poster:

420 posts

111 months

Sunday 15th May 2016
quotequote all
I run a ebay/Amazon business and understand how the country is losing loads in VAT to these sellers but can a chinese seller just paste in any VAT number into their company info on Ebay.

I am looking to buy two laser cutter/engravers and found a seller with a UK VAT number that is valid for "Sanven Corporation LTD", I thought i would just double check they would supply a VAT invoice before making the purchase of £2938. I already had a hunch they would not be able to and right enough they cannot.

The listing if anyone wants a look - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-CO2-LASER-ENGRAVING-...

There is another seller with the same setup, UK VAT number registered to a UK company with no accounts filed. Surely Ebay should stop this? or am i missing something?


RanchoGrande

1,151 posts

169 months

Sunday 15th May 2016
quotequote all
I think the problem is too big and widespread for ebay to deal with effectively.

I'm all up for global trading but I think HMRC and Ebay should clamp down on this so that it's fair for everyone trading on ebay.

mickytruelove

Original Poster:

420 posts

111 months

Sunday 15th May 2016
quotequote all
What would happen if i bought the machines and claimed the VAT on my next return, using the UK company and number listed?


caziques

2,572 posts

168 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Don't see why it's your job to oversee if another entity is complying with VAT matters.

I would have thought if you purchase and reclaim VAT there wouldn't be a problem.

The ebay seller has done a lot of trades surely you can assume they are legit?

RM

592 posts

97 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
caziques said:
Don't see why it's your job to oversee if another entity is complying with VAT matters.

I would have thought if you purchase and reclaim VAT there wouldn't be a problem.
You can't reclaim VAT if you haven't paid it. If the seller is not able to provide a correct VAT receipt, with their own correct VAT number, then again you can't claim it.

caziques said:
The ebay seller has done a lot of trades surely you can assume they are legit?
Oh god no, there are a large number of overseas eBay sellers, including Chinese, that are evading VAT on large volumes of sales. A quick search shows up many hits. Try this to start.

sgrimshaw

7,323 posts

250 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
They're saying the item is in Portsmouth which would suggest a UK sale, which might well be a VAT-able supply depending on the VAT status of the seller.

There is a valid GB Vat registration on the page.

Given that there is a £450.00 express international postage charge, it's probably safe to say that the item is not in the UK at all, and accordingly "you" would be liable for any duty and VAT at the point of entry to the UK.

The fact that they have said they will not provide a VAT invoice supports the assumption that they will be shipping this to you from outside the UK.




V8OW

1,616 posts

197 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
mickytruelove said:
I run a ebay/Amazon business and understand how the country is losing loads in VAT to these sellers but can a chinese seller just paste in any VAT number into their company info on Ebay.

I am looking to buy two laser cutter/engravers and found a seller with a UK VAT number that is valid for "Sanven Corporation LTD", I thought i would just double check they would supply a VAT invoice before making the purchase of £2938. I already had a hunch they would not be able to and right enough they cannot.

The listing if anyone wants a look - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/60W-CO2-LASER-ENGRAVING-...

There is another seller with the same setup, UK VAT number registered to a UK company with no accounts filed. Surely Ebay should stop this? or am i missing something?
Sanven Corporation LTD which is who they say they are can be found on companies house, but as you say they haven't filed accounts yet.

The vat number on their listing also ties in with companies house information:

Member State GB
VAT Number GB 239308303
Date when request received 2016/05/16 23:16:17
Name SANVEN CORPORATION LTD
Address 21A BLAKE STREET
YORK
YO1 8QJ

Was it these that said they wouldn't provide a vat receipt? Seems odd, as it looks above board on the face of it.

mickytruelove

Original Poster:

420 posts

111 months

Monday 16th May 2016
quotequote all
Yeah thats them.

By the looks of it if you click the seller information drop down near the VAT number on the ebay listing they have a Chinese address.

The machines are in portsmouth ready to ship. They are just avoiding VAT and corp tax. Turns out this model is repeated across europe and if you google "sanven corporation gmbh" they have a company in germany, not trading, with a VAT number. But all funds go straight to a chinese Paypal never to be seen again or taxed.

in summary, this country is buggered. right up the wrong'un.

DSLiverpool

14,743 posts

202 months

Tuesday 17th May 2016
quotequote all
To register for eBay vat free fees you submit and I assumed they checked - obviously not

mickytruelove

Original Poster:

420 posts

111 months

Wednesday 18th May 2016
quotequote all
I think they check to see if the VAT number is valid but not that it actually belongs to their company.

gowmonster

2,471 posts

167 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
it costs pennies to setup a ltd company.

who knows if it's a shell company or a legit company that knows nothing of this scam.

so no1 you wont get tax back, and if you want your stuff, you'll need to pay the import duty before they will release it.

I bet it'll stay in customs long after whatever paypals claimback period it. sounds dodgier than a dodgy thing.

tell them you'll pick it up in persons as it's just down the road.

mickytruelove

Original Poster:

420 posts

111 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
i think you have the wrong end of the stick.

They are simply listing a VAT number belonging to another company. The items they sell are imported already and are in portsmouth ready to deliver in UK.


fridaypassion

8,563 posts

228 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
Anything coming from China will get vat charged there's no out on that. A UK company quoting another UK company's vat number would be a bigger issue. Or for that matter an eu company providing a false vat number and getting a UK company to incorrectly fill out their economic sales list.

DSLiverpool

14,743 posts

202 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
Out of curiosity I've had a look and this is a relatively successful seller who has some amazing kit ! The vat reg company has an odd office in York that has some kind of Chinese business trading within and could be a Chinese accountants.
I can't fathom how the happy customers have been served unless private ones with no use or quality issues.

V8OW

1,616 posts

197 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
mickytruelove said:
i think you have the wrong end of the stick.

They are simply listing a VAT number belonging to another company. The items they sell are imported already and are in portsmouth ready to deliver in UK.
The VAT number listed agrees to the company details on the listing though doesn't it?

It looks as if the company number and vat number are legit, but whether they are declaring the sales correctly is another matter.

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 19th May 2016
quotequote all
A few companies registered at that York address

http://www.companieshousedata.co.uk/a/1868887

The Don of Croy

5,998 posts

159 months

Friday 20th May 2016
quotequote all
I'd be more concerned about the service and back up if the machines don't operate to spec, or at all, given the range of goods they sell and the slightly less than perfect English in the listings (expecting that if there are technical issues to be solved a common language might help).

Would you be covered for a refund as a commercial punter?

jamoor

14,506 posts

215 months