Professional Indemnity Insurance issue

Professional Indemnity Insurance issue

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Discussion

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Just won a tender and they now want PI insurance on it in addition to std PL and EL. Stumped up for £25k cover which is more than adequate given value of contract but they want £1m cover. This is costly at around £700.

Broker is back on it but anyone any tips for getting lower cost or specialist cover actually based on a project etc? Its a hyper low risk case study project (and a re-commission, so they like us!) so its quite absurd but its still a box that needs ticking (maybe in case we say something slanderous about Donald 'peach hamster' Trump and that gets past all stages of governmental sign off and he sues!

Thanks

marshalla

15,902 posts

200 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Sounds like you've fallen foul of a procurement dept. using their standard contract, which is designed to catch big projects.

I've usually managed to get them to amend the contract to accept a lower figure.

Hoolio

1,143 posts

220 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Just won a tender and they now want PI insurance on it in addition to std PL and EL. Stumped up for £25k cover which is more than adequate given value of contract but they want £1m cover. This is costly at around £700.

Broker is back on it but anyone any tips for getting lower cost or specialist cover actually based on a project etc? Its a hyper low risk case study project (and a re-commission, so they like us!) so its quite absurd but its still a box that needs ticking (maybe in case we say something slanderous about Donald 'peach hamster' Trump and that gets past all stages of governmental sign off and he sues!

Thanks
I run a recruitment company placing contractors and our contract requires they have minimum £1mil PI. AFAIK none of them are paying even close to £700 premium.

I also have a mate who is a broker I'd be happy to put you in touch with, feel free to send me a PM.

insurance_jon

4,054 posts

245 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Changing insurer mid term is unlikely to be the cheapest option.

Are the broker/insurer able to apply the increase only to this contract? this usually is cheaper

however:

you mention you think given the value of the contract (and bear in mind I don't know what you do so this may not apply) that £250k is enough. However when you think about it the value of your contract has no bearing on it. Its the value of the wider contract that you are working on that needs to be considered

i.e a surveyor has a £10k job which is to project manage the footings going into a new office block build. The footings contract he is managing is £250,000, however the whole building project is £5m. You can see there is a scope for being exposed to a wider risk, and not having enough cover

insurance_jon

4,054 posts

245 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Hoolio said:
Ken Figenus said:
Just won a tender and they now want PI insurance on it in addition to std PL and EL. Stumped up for £25k cover which is more than adequate given value of contract but they want £1m cover. This is costly at around £700.

Broker is back on it but anyone any tips for getting lower cost or specialist cover actually based on a project etc? Its a hyper low risk case study project (and a re-commission, so they like us!) so its quite absurd but its still a box that needs ticking (maybe in case we say something slanderous about Donald 'peach hamster' Trump and that gets past all stages of governmental sign off and he sues!

Thanks
I run a recruitment company placing contractors and our contract requires they have minimum £1mil PI. AFAIK none of them are paying even close to £700 premium.

I also have a mate who is a broker I'd be happy to put you in touch with, feel free to send me a PM.
Im not teaching you how to suck eggs, but just a word to the wise for your own PI. I've just reviewed a large IT recruiters PI and they got a surprise. Due to the nature of the clients they were placing contractors into they were signing up to the end clients terms of business. In many cases they were accepting liability for the actions of the contractor, and had to have £10m PI cover in place.

When you accept the liability of others (i.e the contractors) this is called vicarious liability, which is excluded under most recruitment PI policies. Please check to make sure you have the right cover before signing clients terms of business. It would also be prudent to make the contractors have the same level of PI cover you are required to have (they wouldn't need vicarious cover as it is their own actions). ps - PI cover including vicarious liability isn't cheap

nyt

1,803 posts

149 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
I used to need £10m cover. I used: http://www.qdoscontractor.com/insurance/business-i...

It cost a lot less than £700

Flooble

5,565 posts

99 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
I pay about £300 a year for my PI, your quote seems a tad excessive.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
What is it you do?

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Thanks chaps - looks likely to have a positive outcome based on the above and that our just renewed main insurer is too heavy on this. Especially as we don't dig tower block foundations we just create digital media!

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
nyt said:
I used to need £10m cover. I used: http://www.qdoscontractor.com/insurance/business-i...

It cost a lot less than £700
£258 here as a stanalone - phew! Job done - thanks.

williaa68

1,527 posts

165 months

Sunday 29th May 2016
quotequote all
nyt said:
I used to need £10m cover. I used: http://www.qdoscontractor.com/insurance/business-i...

It cost a lot less than £700
As someone who is just setting up by himself this is a very useful site - thank you very much.

Simpo Two

85,149 posts

264 months

Sunday 29th May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Just won a tender and they now want PI insurance
So in the tender they didn't state this as a requirement, and added it afterwards?

Goalposts, moved.

So how about you complete the work and then just bill them an extra £700, 'afterwards'?

Soz, felling punchy.

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Monday 30th May 2016
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
So in the tender they didn't state this as a requirement, and added it afterwards?

Goalposts, moved.

So how about you complete the work and then just bill them an extra £700, 'afterwards'?

Soz, felling punchy.
Yes - bit unusual for a behemoth with dedicated contracting dept's to bring that up afterwards and AFTER we submitted our costs. At sub £300 though its not worth making waves.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Monday 30th May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Simpo Two said:
So in the tender they didn't state this as a requirement, and added it afterwards?

Goalposts, moved.

So how about you complete the work and then just bill them an extra £700, 'afterwards'?

Soz, felling punchy.
Yes - bit unusual for a behemoth with dedicated contracting dept's to bring that up afterwards and AFTER we submitted our costs. At sub £300 though its not worth making waves.
When I was contracting I used insurance jon and I can't remember if I only needed £1m or more but mine was circa £700, all deductible off the tax I paid so whilst its cost £700 to start, it doesnt actually cost you that.

Animal

5,246 posts

267 months

Monday 30th May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
£258 here as a stanalone - phew! Job done - thanks.
Was this for one project or a policy that covers all your work? In my experience, buying a professional indemnity policy for one project is not cost effective, even if you're recharging the cost of the policy back.

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Tuesday 31st May 2016
quotequote all
12m, £1m.

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
nyt said:
I used to need £10m cover. I used: http://www.qdoscontractor.com/insurance/business-i...

It cost a lot less than £700
Thanks for this link.

My previous insurer was taking the piss. This was just the ticket.

Terminator X

14,921 posts

203 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all
As a business owner why wouldn't you have PII regardless? If you ever get sued how were you planning to deal with it?

TX.

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
As a business owner why wouldn't you have PII regardless? If you ever get sued how were you planning to deal with it?

TX.
I think it really depends on what it is that you do. If you run the risk of screwing up PR for a multinational or a service or product for the NHS or give mistaken legal advice as a lawyer then it would be quite prudent to have it!

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
I wish my PI would cost less than £700/ It is very business dependant in my experience.