Losing fat / gaining muscle
Discussion
The easiest thing to do is to choose an aim and run with that. You want to get leaner, then i'd not expect to pack on muscle at the same time as you'll be eating less. Likewise, you want to get bigger and stronger, expect to put on a bit of timber by eating more.
I sure many will say it's easy to gain muscle and lose fat- but it's not.
I sure many will say it's easy to gain muscle and lose fat- but it's not.
Edited by didelydoo on Tuesday 26th July 15:03
Yes you can get rid of fat and gain muscle at the same time, but it will be really hard work. Get your 5km run down to sub-20, get your dead lift up to 180kg, and your bench up to 140kg and turn yourself into a human wrecking ball. It can be done. Do this, and you won't have to worry about moobs ever again.
Edited by mcelliott on Tuesday 26th July 20:53
I think you can gain muscle lose fat as long as you do not do High intensity interval training that will kill your nervous system while trying to get stronger and muscly.....I suggest do an hour of something that will keep your heart rate at 65% to 70% of MHR 2/ 3 times a week on top of your weights....Max heart rate not defined by 220- age nonsense but getting out there in a park and sprinting your socks off to get it as high as you can.
Everyone has an opinion smile
Edited dont do the sprinting bit who knows what state your heart is in unless you have a Dr assesment I reckon keep your Heart rate at 125 bpm aka Body Mind Sport book that should be spot on
Everyone has an opinion smile
Edited dont do the sprinting bit who knows what state your heart is in unless you have a Dr assesment I reckon keep your Heart rate at 125 bpm aka Body Mind Sport book that should be spot on
Edited by smashy on Tuesday 26th July 21:24
Olly, apols for thread hijack but i guess relevant to you. Is training daily (fairly hard) actually detrimental at all? eg. i've recently found an extra hour in the day to hit the gym, so i'm now going daily - always the same; 20min interval sprinting on a runner (gets heart upto 180-190bpm), followed by various free weights for 40mins (really exerting myself). That going to be ok? I've been doing it for 2 weeks now and sure feel a damn sight better.
Ta
Ta
If I were you, and wanted to mix both cardio and weights in a session, I'd lift first and then run myself to death with whatever energy I had left.
Assuming you're not lifting monster weights, a short warm-up to loosen yourself up and wake your heart up should be all you need pre-lifting (I just do 5 mins on a cross-trainer)
Assuming you're not lifting monster weights, a short warm-up to loosen yourself up and wake your heart up should be all you need pre-lifting (I just do 5 mins on a cross-trainer)
smashy said:
I think you can gain muscle lose fat as long as you do not do High intensity interval training that will kill your nervous system while trying to get stronger and muscly.....I suggest do an hour of something that will keep your heart rate at 65% to 70% of MHR 2/ 3 times a week on top of your weights....Max heart rate not defined by 220- age nonsense but getting out there in a park and sprinting your socks off to get it as high as you can.
I thought current opinion was that HIIT is much less likely to cause loss of lean tissue compared to steady state cardio?crashley said:
Olly, apols for thread hijack but i guess relevant to you. Is training daily (fairly hard) actually detrimental at all? eg. i've recently found an extra hour in the day to hit the gym, so i'm now going daily - always the same; 20min interval sprinting on a runner (gets heart upto 180-190bpm), followed by various free weights for 40mins (really exerting myself). That going to be ok? I've been doing it for 2 weeks now and sure feel a damn sight better.
Ta
Doing weights everyday is not going to achieve much unless you are concentrating on one muscle group per day and isolating. Your muscles need time to recover. Unless you are jucing in whcih case go nuts.Ta
Depends on your goals, if its pure fat loss then go for it. But for fitness and muscle growth you need rest, one day at least.
I'll go a little against the grain here and say you'll be hard pushed to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I've 'nearly' compete in a couple of bodybuilding competitions, so while there are a whole plethora of people who know way more than I do, I'm reasonably well versed in how it works, well, how it works for me anyway.
If I want to build size, I eat more calories, it's as simple as that. While I have pretty good genetics as far as adding muscle goes, I also add fat as well. I know a few guys who compete who still manage to stay fairly lean, but I'd say they are in the minority. They manage this partly because of genetics, but they are seasoned pro's so do this year in, year out so know exactly what works for them, they don't need trial and error, they've mastered what works for them and is tried and tested.
When it comes to losing the body fat, the calories get lower, carbs get lower and cardio goes up. You'd be surprised at the relatively low level of output required to get the bodyfat dropping off if you get your diet right. Imagine you're going to miss a train / bus and you have to walk with purpose. Well that's the level of intensity I train at. A 40 minute 'spirited' walk is all it takes when the diet is in check. Could I build muscle while doing this? No chance, my diet doesn't support it, even small weights start to feel heavy and I just can't train at the same intensity. I can categorically state that if I'm cutting, I lose weight, muscle and overall size.
My regime has been fairly extreme hence my view of adding muscle and reducing bodyfat as two different things. Training to do both at this level is counterproductive. I either need to consume the calories to support muscle growth and training at this intensity, reduce calories to enable me to drop bodyfat / weight or to just maintain my current weight.
In the grand scheme of things, the results you’re after are fairly modest and easily achievable. We all have stubborn fatty areas and around the chest and waist / lower back are common problem areas for men. As your goals are fairly modest, I’ll take bit of a U-Turn and say that yes, you can build and lose fat but caveat it by saying that I’ll call this middle ground of mediocre results as changing your body composition slightly rather than achieving significant gains/losses. A small increase in muscle volume / density combined with a small reduction in bodyfat will get you noticeable results. You would however in my opinion get better results especially for increasing strength if your diet supports this rather than fat loss.
The only thing that was missing for me in the original post was what your gym regime looks like. Running, golf, football and HiiT won’t help with strength training so wondered how often you weight train and what that consists of?
Your diet looks ok for your needs and from your weight loss this year I’d say its done its job well up to now. When you’ve figured out what your training needs to look like, eg less HiiT and more weights for example, you’ll need to change your diet around again as your body will have different requirements. You need fat to burn fat so don’t be put off if you end up having to eat more food more often and with a higher fat content. Simple and starchy carbs (sugar and stodge!) need to be lower for fat loss. My first meal of the day is eggs, ham and a fair bit of cheese!
If I want to build size, I eat more calories, it's as simple as that. While I have pretty good genetics as far as adding muscle goes, I also add fat as well. I know a few guys who compete who still manage to stay fairly lean, but I'd say they are in the minority. They manage this partly because of genetics, but they are seasoned pro's so do this year in, year out so know exactly what works for them, they don't need trial and error, they've mastered what works for them and is tried and tested.
When it comes to losing the body fat, the calories get lower, carbs get lower and cardio goes up. You'd be surprised at the relatively low level of output required to get the bodyfat dropping off if you get your diet right. Imagine you're going to miss a train / bus and you have to walk with purpose. Well that's the level of intensity I train at. A 40 minute 'spirited' walk is all it takes when the diet is in check. Could I build muscle while doing this? No chance, my diet doesn't support it, even small weights start to feel heavy and I just can't train at the same intensity. I can categorically state that if I'm cutting, I lose weight, muscle and overall size.
My regime has been fairly extreme hence my view of adding muscle and reducing bodyfat as two different things. Training to do both at this level is counterproductive. I either need to consume the calories to support muscle growth and training at this intensity, reduce calories to enable me to drop bodyfat / weight or to just maintain my current weight.
In the grand scheme of things, the results you’re after are fairly modest and easily achievable. We all have stubborn fatty areas and around the chest and waist / lower back are common problem areas for men. As your goals are fairly modest, I’ll take bit of a U-Turn and say that yes, you can build and lose fat but caveat it by saying that I’ll call this middle ground of mediocre results as changing your body composition slightly rather than achieving significant gains/losses. A small increase in muscle volume / density combined with a small reduction in bodyfat will get you noticeable results. You would however in my opinion get better results especially for increasing strength if your diet supports this rather than fat loss.
The only thing that was missing for me in the original post was what your gym regime looks like. Running, golf, football and HiiT won’t help with strength training so wondered how often you weight train and what that consists of?
Your diet looks ok for your needs and from your weight loss this year I’d say its done its job well up to now. When you’ve figured out what your training needs to look like, eg less HiiT and more weights for example, you’ll need to change your diet around again as your body will have different requirements. You need fat to burn fat so don’t be put off if you end up having to eat more food more often and with a higher fat content. Simple and starchy carbs (sugar and stodge!) need to be lower for fat loss. My first meal of the day is eggs, ham and a fair bit of cheese!
Autopilot said:
I'll go a little against the grain here and say you'll be hard pushed to gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I've 'nearly' compete in a couple of bodybuilding competitions, so while there are a whole plethora of people who know way more than I do, I'm reasonably well versed in how it works, well, how it works for me anyway.
If I want to build size, I eat more calories, it's as simple as that. While I have pretty good genetics as far as adding muscle goes, I also add fat as well. I know a few guys who compete who still manage to stay fairly lean, but I'd say they are in the minority. They manage this partly because of genetics, but they are seasoned pro's so do this year in, year out so know exactly what works for them, they don't need trial and error, they've mastered what works for them and is tried and tested.
When it comes to losing the body fat, the calories get lower, carbs get lower and cardio goes up. You'd be surprised at the relatively low level of output required to get the bodyfat dropping off if you get your diet right. Imagine you're going to miss a train / bus and you have to walk with purpose. Well that's the level of intensity I train at. A 40 minute 'spirited' walk is all it takes when the diet is in check. Could I build muscle while doing this? No chance, my diet doesn't support it, even small weights start to feel heavy and I just can't train at the same intensity. I can categorically state that if I'm cutting, I lose weight, muscle and overall size.
My regime has been fairly extreme hence my view of adding muscle and reducing bodyfat as two different things. Training to do both at this level is counterproductive. I either need to consume the calories to support muscle growth and training at this intensity, reduce calories to enable me to drop bodyfat / weight or to just maintain my current weight.
In the grand scheme of things, the results you’re after are fairly modest and easily achievable. We all have stubborn fatty areas and around the chest and waist / lower back are common problem areas for men. As your goals are fairly modest, I’ll take bit of a U-Turn and say that yes, you can build and lose fat but caveat it by saying that I’ll call this middle ground of mediocre results as changing your body composition slightly rather than achieving significant gains/losses. A small increase in muscle volume / density combined with a small reduction in bodyfat will get you noticeable results. You would however in my opinion get better results especially for increasing strength if your diet supports this rather than fat loss.
The only thing that was missing for me in the original post was what your gym regime looks like. Running, golf, football and HiiT won’t help with strength training so wondered how often you weight train and what that consists of?
Your diet looks ok for your needs and from your weight loss this year I’d say its done its job well up to now. When you’ve figured out what your training needs to look like, eg less HiiT and more weights for example, you’ll need to change your diet around again as your body will have different requirements. You need fat to burn fat so don’t be put off if you end up having to eat more food more often and with a higher fat content. Simple and starchy carbs (sugar and stodge!) need to be lower for fat loss. My first meal of the day is eggs, ham and a fair bit of cheese!
I was going to post similar the other day, typed out and then deleted as people would argue with it... the fact of the matter that pretty much no one natural gains lean tissue and loses fat concurrently unless they've come from a harsh diet, or are obese.If I want to build size, I eat more calories, it's as simple as that. While I have pretty good genetics as far as adding muscle goes, I also add fat as well. I know a few guys who compete who still manage to stay fairly lean, but I'd say they are in the minority. They manage this partly because of genetics, but they are seasoned pro's so do this year in, year out so know exactly what works for them, they don't need trial and error, they've mastered what works for them and is tried and tested.
When it comes to losing the body fat, the calories get lower, carbs get lower and cardio goes up. You'd be surprised at the relatively low level of output required to get the bodyfat dropping off if you get your diet right. Imagine you're going to miss a train / bus and you have to walk with purpose. Well that's the level of intensity I train at. A 40 minute 'spirited' walk is all it takes when the diet is in check. Could I build muscle while doing this? No chance, my diet doesn't support it, even small weights start to feel heavy and I just can't train at the same intensity. I can categorically state that if I'm cutting, I lose weight, muscle and overall size.
My regime has been fairly extreme hence my view of adding muscle and reducing bodyfat as two different things. Training to do both at this level is counterproductive. I either need to consume the calories to support muscle growth and training at this intensity, reduce calories to enable me to drop bodyfat / weight or to just maintain my current weight.
In the grand scheme of things, the results you’re after are fairly modest and easily achievable. We all have stubborn fatty areas and around the chest and waist / lower back are common problem areas for men. As your goals are fairly modest, I’ll take bit of a U-Turn and say that yes, you can build and lose fat but caveat it by saying that I’ll call this middle ground of mediocre results as changing your body composition slightly rather than achieving significant gains/losses. A small increase in muscle volume / density combined with a small reduction in bodyfat will get you noticeable results. You would however in my opinion get better results especially for increasing strength if your diet supports this rather than fat loss.
The only thing that was missing for me in the original post was what your gym regime looks like. Running, golf, football and HiiT won’t help with strength training so wondered how often you weight train and what that consists of?
Your diet looks ok for your needs and from your weight loss this year I’d say its done its job well up to now. When you’ve figured out what your training needs to look like, eg less HiiT and more weights for example, you’ll need to change your diet around again as your body will have different requirements. You need fat to burn fat so don’t be put off if you end up having to eat more food more often and with a higher fat content. Simple and starchy carbs (sugar and stodge!) need to be lower for fat loss. My first meal of the day is eggs, ham and a fair bit of cheese!
This is why the gym isn't full of lean, huge people. And tends to be full of people think they are 'lean gaining', where in fact, they are spinning their wheels trying to get bigger without eating enough and worried about putting on a bit of fat. No need to get grossly fat, but expect to gain a bit.
olly22n said:
Both above posts seem like sound advice.
As its summer I am going to cut, and get rid of as much of my belly as i can.
5x5 is still very light for me so i'll carry on with that so when i get to the autumn hopefully i can start bulking up a bit.
I will report back with progress!
Just my personal opinion, but with respect, I do not think you are nowhere near big enough, muscle-wise to even think about 'cutting'As its summer I am going to cut, and get rid of as much of my belly as i can.
5x5 is still very light for me so i'll carry on with that so when i get to the autumn hopefully i can start bulking up a bit.
I will report back with progress!
If it were me, I would just concentrate on eating healthily and concentrating on your 5x5 progression. And think about what you may look like this time next year.
I have always viewed the 'bulk and cut' is a method for seasoned bodybuilders who already have plenty of muscle to get into competition shape. I will never understand why relative beginners think they have to do it.
chris watton said:
olly22n said:
Both above posts seem like sound advice.
As its summer I am going to cut, and get rid of as much of my belly as i can.
5x5 is still very light for me so i'll carry on with that so when i get to the autumn hopefully i can start bulking up a bit.
I will report back with progress!
Just my personal opinion, but with respect, I do not think you are nowhere near big enough, muscle-wise to even think about 'cutting'As its summer I am going to cut, and get rid of as much of my belly as i can.
5x5 is still very light for me so i'll carry on with that so when i get to the autumn hopefully i can start bulking up a bit.
I will report back with progress!
If it were me, I would just concentrate on eating healthily and concentrating on your 5x5 progression. And think about what you may look like this time next year.
I have always viewed the 'bulk and cut' is a method for seasoned bodybuilders who already have plenty of muscle to get into competition shape. I will never understand why relative beginners think they have to do it.
Gassing Station | Health Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff