£375000 overtime pay for doctor, who syas NHS isnt broken

£375000 overtime pay for doctor, who syas NHS isnt broken

Author
Discussion

Adrian W

Original Poster:

13,858 posts

228 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
when it suits them doctors say being a doctor is vocational, this is out of control

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36898881


FredClogs

14,041 posts

161 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
We need more qualified doctors as is evidenced by the overtime the ones we have do.

You won't attract the brightest and best to study medicine by paying the badly.

Successive governments of all political persuasions have continued to accept market forces within the NHS staffing arrangements and short term thinking because the public won't accept that our NHS isn't particularly well funded.

Hence... We are where we are.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

157 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
"Payments of about £600 in overtime for a four-hour shift are common"

£150 per hour for a fully qualified consultant doesn't seem that bad to me.

You can't get a half decent solicitor for that and they aren't potentially playing with your life.

BRISTOL86

1,097 posts

105 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
I'm sure certain individuals are taking the piss - like in most big organisations.

However, if the 4 hours overtime is required because there aren't enough qualified in that role to cover it in normal working hours, and in that 4 hours your life (or your loved ones life) is saved, then would you rather the overtime wasn't happening?

Digga

40,300 posts

283 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
You can't get a half decent solicitor for that and they aren't potentially playing with your life.
Tell that to someone who's been through an acrimonious divorce.

numtumfutunch

4,721 posts

138 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
My local NHS Trust pays just over 80 quid an hour for weekend and night shift consultant overtime

Most consultants here work 46-48h as standard and choose not to do a Saturday night in casualty at these rates

menousername

2,108 posts

142 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
"Payments of about £600 in overtime for a four-hour shift are common"

£150 per hour for a fully qualified consultant doesn't seem that bad to me.

You can't get a half decent solicitor for that and they aren't potentially playing with your life.
But that would be a gross payment for services including VAT. The analogy works if the law firm paid the salaried solicitor overtime of £150 for your preliminary interview in addition to a generous salary and pension.

I would be interested to see the levels locuming that goes on on their days off that are supposed to be taken off to rest for health and safety reasons.



Derek Smith

45,613 posts

248 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
The problem is, quite obviously, the lack of trained staff. We need more doctors. However, we are losing them.

We used to draw them in from the old empire, taking them from countries that were chronically short of them to boost our numbers without having to pay the costs of training. Now there are as many going to India as there are coming from it. And that's old figures. It is probably more now.

Nothing has been done to increase the flow of home-trained doctors. Yet staffing levels need to increase just to keep pace with the lack of them. At my surgery most doctors are part-time. They don't do much private work but look after their kids. Once they are off their hands they tend to keep the low hours. So all that training and costs for half the work.

That's not to criticise those who have an effective work/life balance. They should do what suits them best.

The main block is training. Numbers have increased slightly but the attraction of god's own countries is greater now. We are suffering in the same way that India suffered when we went poaching.


IrateNinja

767 posts

178 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Why stay in rainy Blighty when you can pick up a visa to Canada/Australia and improve your quality of life with a couple of long haul flights?

I think it's going to continue getting worse as junior doctors with no hard ties here up sticks.

Wacky Racer

38,143 posts

247 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Adrian W said:
when it suits them doctors say being a doctor is vocational, this is out of control

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-36898881
A very good premiership footballer earns about a million pounds a month PLUS lucrative endorsements from manufacturers for kicking a ball around.

Puts it in perspective.

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
"The average amount paid in high-cost overtime was £13,356 per consultant"

And yet we focus in on the exceptions??

TLandCruiser

2,788 posts

198 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Jockman said:
"The average amount paid in high-cost overtime was £13,356 per consultant"

And yet we focus in on the exceptions??
Get people jealous and envious of doctors, it already sounds like the op is. Anytime the media wants to attack a profession they just throwing salary numbers around.

This highlights not enough staff for one reason or another.

JagLover

42,381 posts

235 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
"Payments of about £600 in overtime for a four-hour shift are common"

£150 per hour for a fully qualified consultant doesn't seem that bad to me.

You can't get a half decent solicitor for that and they aren't potentially playing with your life.
You aren't comparing like with like.

You are comparing the charge out rate of a professional, with an actual salary received.

Professional service firms used to operate on the 1/3s rule. 1/3 to salary costs of individual, 1/3 for admin Overheads, 1/3 to partners. In the modern age this is somewhat different but you can be assured that a junior solicitor is not being paid £150 per hour!

julian64

14,317 posts

254 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Its just the newspapers whipping up the stupid and gullible.

The underlying problem is under provisioning and then relying on locum costs = bad management.

Anyone remember the story they did about GP's earning half a million a year?

V8 Fettler

7,019 posts

132 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?

Jockman

17,917 posts

160 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
V8 Fettler said:
Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?
Spikes in demand?

Countdown

39,824 posts

196 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
V8 Fettler said:
Do not NHS consultants receive a good salary? If so, why is there paid overtime available?
Because there aren't enough Consultants to cover all the vacancies.

I imagine we could end up in a similar situation if all the Junior Doctors decide to upsticks and leave the NHS for sunnier climes. Fortunately they're all well paid with excellent working conditions so it's unlikely to happen.....

greygoose

8,255 posts

195 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
The problem is, quite obviously, the lack of trained staff. We need more doctors. However, we are losing them.

We used to draw them in from the old empire, taking them from countries that were chronically short of them to boost our numbers without having to pay the costs of training. Now there are as many going to India as there are coming from it. And that's old figures. It is probably more now.

Nothing has been done to increase the flow of home-trained doctors. Yet staffing levels need to increase just to keep pace with the lack of them. At my surgery most doctors are part-time. They don't do much private work but look after their kids. Once they are off their hands they tend to keep the low hours. So all that training and costs for half the work.

That's not to criticise those who have an effective work/life balance. They should do what suits them best.

The main block is training. Numbers have increased slightly but the attraction of god's own countries is greater now. We are suffering in the same way that India suffered when we went poaching.
Very true, we need some more medical schools to produce more doctors, even then it would be seven years till they graduated.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

109 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
JagLover said:
You aren't comparing like with like.

You are comparing the charge out rate of a professional, with an actual salary received.

Professional service firms used to operate on the 1/3s rule. 1/3 to salary costs of individual, 1/3 for admin Overheads, 1/3 to partners. In the modern age this is somewhat different but you can be assured that a junior solicitor is not being paid £150 per hour!
You think you are comparing like for like? This is single consultant that got paid this much. Junior solicitor? Take, not even best paid, solicitor, but say top 5%. How much do you think that they get paid? Complete non-story, as it took very much exception rather than a rule. As mentioned before, if we had more consultants, there would be no need for overtime and using so many locums.


jjlynn27

7,935 posts

109 months

Wednesday 27th July 2016
quotequote all
greygoose said:
Very true, we need some more medical schools to produce more doctors, even then it would be seven years till they graduated.
+ 8 years more till they become consultants. During those years, they'll pay professional insurance themselves + cost of all courses and exams that they need to pass.