Tenants say they're not going to pay rent, what next?
Discussion
Seen the copy of the references the agent got, their combined income is plenty, rent is only ~30% of the gross figure
So the more I look at this the more section 8 seems the way to go. Earliest court date would be end of November, then proceedings take 1-2 months, judgement against them would give them another month to leave. That's 5-6 months worth of rent which is basically the same amount as if they just did the min term on the tenancy agreement which was was basically what I was after.
So the more I look at this the more section 8 seems the way to go. Earliest court date would be end of November, then proceedings take 1-2 months, judgement against them would give them another month to leave. That's 5-6 months worth of rent which is basically the same amount as if they just did the min term on the tenancy agreement which was was basically what I was after.
sun.and.rain said:
To go back to the original complaint, is anything being done about the noisy neighbours? Are you going to disclose the problem to prospective new tenants?
Honestly, I don't know. The tenants have effectively stopped communicating with me so it could have gone away or it could still be there. There is a neighbour I'm in contact with but she's slow at replying to texts. What I want to do is ask her for a running tally of when the noise happens so that I can begin a formal complaints process with the council and take action as necessary following the guidlines here:http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/what...
In terms of disclosing the issue to future tenants now that I am aware of it, it is very much in my interests to do so, I don't want a repeat of this. I'd happily offer some discount on market rate in return for a tenants with a thicker skin. The previous tenants lived 2 happy years there (well, apart from their apparent breakup!) and when the tenancy was coming to an end the lady wanted to stay as she liked it so much. Unfortunately the rental figure she could offer on her own was about 35% less than the market value which meant we couldn't come to an agreement. When she had moved to her new place and dropped me an email back to pass on to the new tenants ref a letter that may have gone to her old address, she said it had been a pleasure dealing with myself and the agent for 2 years, or words to that effect.
The biggest flaw with section 8 for rent arrears is that if they pay to get back under the 2 month arrears then the case gets thrown out, and out of the 8 and 21, the 21 is the most bullet proof providing you cross the t's and dot the i's.
I would issue section 21 regardless, nothing saying you have to act on it. Might scare them into paying too.
I would issue section 21 regardless, nothing saying you have to act on it. Might scare them into paying too.
Thought I'd give an update on this: after the tenants getting progressively more and more mental and/or dumb and me initiating court action, I gave them a final offer of 15% discount on their rent provided they cleared their arrears immediately (about 2.5 months worth at that point) and then weekly payments instead of monthly ones (so that I know if they renege on the deal within 7 days rather than 1 month and can un-pause legal action immediately) and they accepted. Well they didn't accept by email but a day after a Section 8 and court papers for a money claim against them arrived in their letter box the agent received the money. Next payment of rent weekly in advance is due in early Jan so hopefully they don't play silly buggers.
Honestly, my other half (who is Russian and spoke to them in Russian which is also their first language) said they're basically idiots. Appears that no matter what we were saying, they didn't believe that the contract was enforceable, or that the break clause didn't count, or that they simply didn't bother to read it (their English is fine btw), or that because my previous tenant thought it wasn't noisy and told them as much when they viewed that I was legally responsible for her words and misrepresented the flat etc etc etc. Genuinely baffling as to what their thought process was/is.
Anyway, although it's cost me some money (rent discount and £215 in county court costs) it seems to be back on track fingers crossed.
Honestly, my other half (who is Russian and spoke to them in Russian which is also their first language) said they're basically idiots. Appears that no matter what we were saying, they didn't believe that the contract was enforceable, or that the break clause didn't count, or that they simply didn't bother to read it (their English is fine btw), or that because my previous tenant thought it wasn't noisy and told them as much when they viewed that I was legally responsible for her words and misrepresented the flat etc etc etc. Genuinely baffling as to what their thought process was/is.
Anyway, although it's cost me some money (rent discount and £215 in county court costs) it seems to be back on track fingers crossed.
Mario149 said:
uber said:
If you have an agent should they not be on top of it?
Agent finds tenants, does paper work, collects rent etc, but they don't "manage" the property. They may well be the people to take it forward (but I'm currently working on a worst case scenario that they're not), have pinged them an email to see exactly what services they provide, will also dig out the agreement we have with them when I have a moment tomorrow.johnfm said:
Mario149 said:
uber said:
If you have an agent should they not be on top of it?
Agent finds tenants, does paper work, collects rent etc, but they don't "manage" the property. They may well be the people to take it forward (but I'm currently working on a worst case scenario that they're not), have pinged them an email to see exactly what services they provide, will also dig out the agreement we have with them when I have a moment tomorrow.
You shouldn't be out of pocket for one penny!...
Kick the door through and drag the ***** out!...I can only see them doing it again if they think like they do already.
Being nice only gets you TAKEN ADVANTAGE of with housing as many have learnt, always seems YOUR out of pocket for helping them!
Kick the door through and drag the ***** out!...I can only see them doing it again if they think like they do already.
Being nice only gets you TAKEN ADVANTAGE of with housing as many have learnt, always seems YOUR out of pocket for helping them!
Well, another little update for your education and edification:
Tenants first payment after the 15% discount agreement arrived on time, but it went down hill after that. The agreement stipulated they should pay the new discounted figure weekly (rather than monthly) so I would know if they were playing silly buggers quicker and could un-pause court action, and also a nice little benefit for them would be that they could keep their money longer. What actually a happened was that I repeatedly had to chase them for late payments again, with them providing excuses like "we were on holiday" and "the bank wouldn't let us set up a weekly DD" etc. In the end i stopped chasing and just let the money come in when it came and eventually all of it arrived - I didn't think chasing would help and luckily they'd agreed to leave at the 6 month point so I just wanted them out. A few weeks before the leaving date I get an email asking if they can stay another 3 weeks I said no for obvious reasons.
They then said I'd be a receiving a request for a reference(!!!). It duly arrived and after 30s considering just writing the bare minimum generic positive reference to get them off my back, I couldn't in the end bring myself to deceive their future landlord, so I gave a full and honest account of what they'd done which was rather satisfying on a personal level. Needless to say they were refused the next place - at which point they started sending abusive emails/letters to me and my other half and asking why I'd given them such a bad reference when they didn't deserve it - you actually couldn't make it up. Anyway, I said the best I could offer them was no reference which they appear to have taken.
They finally moved out as planned, but didn't clean the flat properly so I had to get professional cleaners in to finish the job and after a bit of arguing they accepted that deduction from their deposit, as well as the court fees I had to pay from before. They also left 2 sets of prescription glasses and their passports in the flat - no word of a lie! Taking pity on them for the final time, instead of binning them all, I offered to, and subsequently did, post them to their new address special delivery etc for which they agreed to pay the postage form the deposit.
Given that they'd repeatedly broken our new December agreement, I gave serious consideration to deducting the full discount I'd given them from the deposit. In the end I decided to only claim half to be seen to try and come to a decent compromise and warned them that if we had to go to mediation I'd claim the full amount. Needless to say they felt outraged that I was removing some of their discount just because they were unwilling to pay the correct discounted weekly amount they'd agreed to pay on time and, well, weekly! I told them they can dispute it with the TDS if they want and that I was happy to make my case to them. Unsurprisingly I've had silence back.
So, when I've got a few moment in the next few days, I'll fill in the TDS gubbins to claim the full rent from the deposit as everything else is settled. I'm not in a particular hurry - it's a decent chunk but everything more at this point feels like a bonus even though it's money I'm owed - bit like when you find £20 in your jeans pocket.
Good news is that I have a couple of of new tenants hopefully moving in in 3 weeks - investigation of them would seem to show they're legit so fingers crossed will be nice to have regular income again from the flat. Plus I actually miss having nice tenants who I get on with - there's actually something quite satisfying about providing a decent place for people to live in and being able to get a return on investment. Especially when they're young as you feel quite paternal!
Tenants first payment after the 15% discount agreement arrived on time, but it went down hill after that. The agreement stipulated they should pay the new discounted figure weekly (rather than monthly) so I would know if they were playing silly buggers quicker and could un-pause court action, and also a nice little benefit for them would be that they could keep their money longer. What actually a happened was that I repeatedly had to chase them for late payments again, with them providing excuses like "we were on holiday" and "the bank wouldn't let us set up a weekly DD" etc. In the end i stopped chasing and just let the money come in when it came and eventually all of it arrived - I didn't think chasing would help and luckily they'd agreed to leave at the 6 month point so I just wanted them out. A few weeks before the leaving date I get an email asking if they can stay another 3 weeks
I said no for obvious reasons. They then said I'd be a receiving a request for a reference(!!!). It duly arrived and after 30s considering just writing the bare minimum generic positive reference to get them off my back, I couldn't in the end bring myself to deceive their future landlord, so I gave a full and honest account of what they'd done which was rather satisfying on a personal level. Needless to say they were refused the next place - at which point they started sending abusive emails/letters to me and my other half and asking why I'd given them such a bad reference when they didn't deserve it - you actually couldn't make it up. Anyway, I said the best I could offer them was no reference which they appear to have taken.
They finally moved out as planned, but didn't clean the flat properly so I had to get professional cleaners in to finish the job and after a bit of arguing they accepted that deduction from their deposit, as well as the court fees I had to pay from before. They also left 2 sets of prescription glasses and their passports in the flat - no word of a lie! Taking pity on them for the final time, instead of binning them all, I offered to, and subsequently did, post them to their new address special delivery etc for which they agreed to pay the postage form the deposit.
Given that they'd repeatedly broken our new December agreement, I gave serious consideration to deducting the full discount I'd given them from the deposit. In the end I decided to only claim half to be seen to try and come to a decent compromise and warned them that if we had to go to mediation I'd claim the full amount. Needless to say they felt outraged that I was removing some of their discount just because they were unwilling to pay the correct discounted weekly amount they'd agreed to pay on time and, well, weekly! I told them they can dispute it with the TDS if they want and that I was happy to make my case to them. Unsurprisingly I've had silence back.
So, when I've got a few moment in the next few days, I'll fill in the TDS gubbins to claim the full rent from the deposit as everything else is settled. I'm not in a particular hurry - it's a decent chunk but everything more at this point feels like a bonus even though it's money I'm owed - bit like when you find £20 in your jeans pocket.
Good news is that I have a couple of of new tenants hopefully moving in in 3 weeks - investigation of them would seem to show they're legit so fingers crossed will be nice to have regular income again from the flat. Plus I actually miss having nice tenants who I get on with - there's actually something quite satisfying about providing a decent place for people to live in and being able to get a return on investment. Especially when they're young as you feel quite paternal!
hyphen said:
Good on you for the reference
Have you heard the noise for yourself? If so may be worth adding some soundproofing since you have 3 weeks vacant.
Not heard the noise myself, but from what I can gather it's when the window is open (all the recordings I heard were when the phone was held out the window), so sound proofing won't really help short of telling people to shut all the windows and having the double glazing replaced with triple glazing.Have you heard the noise for yourself? If so may be worth adding some soundproofing since you have 3 weeks vacant.
Best of luck with the TDS. You may find that you don't get as much satisfaction there as you'd like. Try googling them to find out more.
For reference, I never go with the TDS Alternative Dispute Resolution system, I always take it to Small Claims Court and ask that the court should instruct the TDS to refund the amount that I am looking for. The SCC actually listens to what a landlord/agent has to say and makes a sensible decision based upon what they hear. If the tenant disputes your line then you can ask to have a hearing, whereby the tenant has to show up and explain their side of the story. I find this MUCH more likely to achieve a just result than leaving it to the TDS.
For reference, I never go with the TDS Alternative Dispute Resolution system, I always take it to Small Claims Court and ask that the court should instruct the TDS to refund the amount that I am looking for. The SCC actually listens to what a landlord/agent has to say and makes a sensible decision based upon what they hear. If the tenant disputes your line then you can ask to have a hearing, whereby the tenant has to show up and explain their side of the story. I find this MUCH more likely to achieve a just result than leaving it to the TDS.
Mario149 said:
Good news is that I have a couple of of new tenants hopefully moving in in 3 weeks - investigation of them would seem to show they're legit so fingers crossed will be nice to have regular income again from the flat. Plus I actually miss having nice tenants who I get on with - there's actually something quite satisfying about providing a decent place for people to live in and being able to get a return on investment. Especially when they're young as you feel quite paternal!
Deposit taken?
Tenants aren't there to provide friendship, they are there to provide an income. I found it was best to keep tenants at arms length.
Generally speaking, I found that tenants that were 'good' tenants stayed 'good' tenants.
Once they start messing about, they keep on messing about.
Rangeroverover said:
The system is loaded against landlords...
Actually, the system seems to be loaded against whoever the innocent party is. I've been a tenant for more than eight years at four different properties. The second was owned by a complete cowboy. Numerous issues, including the boiler constantly swinging between hot and cold so having a shower required you to repeatedly step out of the water as it became too hot, then too cold, to stand under. I read up on my rights, established that I had to continue fulfilling my half of the bargain even though the landlord wasn't fulfilling his, did everything by the book, lived in chaos for the duration of my six month AST and then moved out with numerous issues still not resolved. Reflecting on my own experience and reading various posts on here by landlords, and hearing stories from a close friend who's a landlord, it seems that the innocent party is always the sitting duck, not able to enforce a fair solution in anywhere near an acceptably short time frame because of long, drawn-out protocol. It's always the good people that get shat on, landlord or tenant.The Mad Monk said:
Mario149 said:
Good news is that I have a couple of of new tenants hopefully moving in in 3 weeks - investigation of them would seem to show they're legit so fingers crossed will be nice to have regular income again from the flat. Plus I actually miss having nice tenants who I get on with - there's actually something quite satisfying about providing a decent place for people to live in and being able to get a return on investment. Especially when they're young as you feel quite paternal!
Deposit taken?
Tenants aren't there to provide friendship, they are there to provide an income. I found it was best to keep tenants at arms length.
Generally speaking, I found that tenants that were 'good' tenants stayed 'good' tenants.
Once they start messing about, they keep on messing about.
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff