Tenants say they're not going to pay rent, what next?

[Mario149]

uber said:

croudsourced eviction

[anonymous-user]

Moominho said:

Well it's a criminal offence for one...

not sure on that what criminal offence occurred?

usually the tenants will feign some sort of issue, the op then has to go to county court which takes at least 6 months then for quicker eviction goes to high court just to evict usually about 9 months in. then he has to sue for lost rent, all losing money this is what i have seen on can't pay wont pay.

[Moominho]

The Spruce goose said:

not sure on that what criminal offence occurred?

usually the tenants will feign some sort of issue, the op then has to go to county court which takes at least 6 months then for quicker eviction goes to high court just to evict usually about 9 months in. then he has to sue for lost rent, all losing money this is what i have seen on can't pay wont pay.

The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 makes it a criminal offence to evict someone without following the correct legal steps. Changing the locks whilst the tenant is out is not the correct process.

I'm sure it works for a lot of people, but that doesn't make it right - or legal.

[ds666]

I think eviction proceedings can take months to sort out . The "rights " are very heavily weighted in favour of tenants , immaterial of not paying or whatever . In one case the council recommended to my tenants to just stop paying and stay put until eventually they would be evicted and then as " homeless " the council would rehouse ....but not until it had been through the courts etc .
Not a good situation . For future renting however they will require references which of course will not be good ones from you - I used this threat to negotiate an exit from some tenants without going to court .Don't know if that helped or not .

Good luck .

[Mario149]

Without wanting to tempt fate, it's not the end of the world if they don't leave for a few months. The property is mortgage free, so while the lack of cash from it for a while will be irritating, it's not going to put me under. I'll still eventually get all of the due rent out of them (with arrears attracting interest at 4% above the base rate from memory) as it's not financial hardship that's stopping them paying.

[Moominho]

That's good. But it is the principle of the matter as much as anything! It's not a legitimate excuse to stop paying and the letting agent should make this clear to them when chasing the outstanding rent.

Best of luck anyway, hope it all works out.

[Mario149]

Moominho said:

That's good. But it is the principle of the matter as much as anything!

Exactly my feeling.

Moominho said:

It's not a legitimate excuse to stop paying and the letting agent should make this clear to them when chasing the outstanding rent.

Best of luck anyway, hope it all works out.

Thanks

[Rangeroverover]

Mario149 said:

Without wanting to tempt fate, it's not the end of the world if they don't leave for a few months. The property is mortgage free, so while the lack of cash from it for a while will be irritating, it's not going to put me under. I'll still eventually get all of the due rent out of them (with arrears attracting interest at 4% above the base rate from memory) as it's not financial hardship that's stopping them paying.

I wouldn't bet on getting any money from them even if you do get judgement. I am an agent and I'm afraid that yu have the pragmatic option or the longwinded one

Option 1) Be friendly, pay their deposit on a new flat for them on the basis they vacate within a week......cost to you lost rent to date plus one months rent

Option 2) Go through the court process, could take 6-9 months by the time you get through various adjournements due to the goldfish having food poisoning or sudden ebola illness on court days. Cost to you, legal fees, stress, 6-9 months + lost rent

The system is loaded against landlords, I would love to have a more robust way of dealing with delinquent/feral tenants; alas as they are seen to be somehow vulnerable they must be coddled. The poor landlord who often only has one investment property and is covering a 75% mortgage out of income while the scumbag tenants invent spurious disputes of course can easily afford it "they own property must be loaded innit"

You have my sympathy but just buy your way out its cheaper in the long run

[Mario149]

Rangeroverover said:

Mario149 said:

Without wanting to tempt fate, it's not the end of the world if they don't leave for a few months. The property is mortgage free, so while the lack of cash from it for a while will be irritating, it's not going to put me under. I'll still eventually get all of the due rent out of them (with arrears attracting interest at 4% above the base rate from memory) as it's not financial hardship that's stopping them paying.

I wouldn't bet on getting any money from them even if you do get judgement. I am an agent and I'm afraid that yu have the pragmatic option or the longwinded one

Option 1) Be friendly, pay their deposit on a new flat for them on the basis they vacate within a week......cost to you lost rent to date plus one months rent

Option 2) Go through the court process, could take 6-9 months by the time you get through various adjournements due to the goldfish having food poisoning or sudden ebola illness on court days. Cost to you, legal fees, stress, 6-9 months + lost rent

The system is loaded against landlords, I would love to have a more robust way of dealing with delinquent/feral tenants; alas as they are seen to be somehow vulnerable they must be coddled. The poor landlord who often only has one investment property and is covering a 75% mortgage out of income while the scumbag tenants invent spurious disputes of course can easily afford it "they own property must be loaded innit"

You have my sympathy but just buy your way out its cheaper in the long run

Food for thought, thanks.

[dci]

uber said:

That would get you the same jail time as going round at 4am and spray pedo across the front door then leaflet all the houses in the street even if you try and call it a croudsourced eviction

Moominho said:

Well it's a criminal offence for one...

Thanks.

Not that I have a buy to let with a scumbag tenant I've just been wondering since those sort of programmes started airing why didn't the landlord just do an old school eviction? Question answered!

[markcoznottz]

dci said:

Slightly O/T but should this situation develope into one of those 'Can't pay, we'll take it away' situations where they refuse to move out and refuse to pay rent what would the consequences be of just turning up one day while they are out, changing the locks and refusing any further access to the property?

It can't be as bad as being 16 months without rent and going through the court process?

Such programmes are encouraging such behaviour imho, if a person with no assets on benefits/ newly unemployed decides to not pay, then kiss it goodbye, it's spent, long gone etc. OP you sound far too nice, you will have to evict.

[markcoznottz]

ds666 said:

I think eviction proceedings can take months to sort out . The "rights " are very heavily weighted in favour of tenants , immaterial of not paying or whatever . In one case the council recommended to my tenants to just stop paying and stay put until eventually they would be evicted and then as " homeless " the council would rehouse ....but not until it had been through the courts etc .
Not a good situation . For future renting however they will require references which of course will not be good ones from you - I used this threat to negotiate an exit from some tenants without going to court .Don't know if that helped or not .

Good luck .

Obviously 'intentionally homeless' now means fk all, as the council will provide some form of accommodation, if kids are involved.

[Mario149]

markcoznottz said:

Such programmes are encouraging such behaviour imho, if a person with no assets on benefits/ newly unemployed decides to not pay, then kiss it goodbye, it's spent, long gone etc. OP you sound far too nice, you will have to evict.

Am possibly a bit too nice, but just trying to be reasonable as if I was the tenant I'd hope for some flexibility. As daft as it may sound I do believe in the whole "what goes around comes around" somewhat. Unless the tenants lied and duped the reference agency, they're on a decent gross income and the rent is <30% of it, and even less if they take my discount offer to stay.

ETA: there are no kids involved btw

[Brads67]

This is why I could never be a landlord.


Me and 4 ugly leather clad thugs would have them out within the day. I couldn`t put up with folk taking the piss like this. No patience.

[MX5_Nuts]

This could make a decent episode of "Can't pay? We'll take it away!"

[Slagathore]

Mario149 said:

Am possibly a bit too nice, but just trying to be reasonable as if I was the tenant I'd hope for some flexibility. As daft as it may sound I do believe in the whole "what goes around comes around" somewhat. Unless the tenants lied and duped the reference agency, they're on a decent gross income and the rent is <30% of it, and even less if they take my discount offer to stay.

ETA: there are no kids involved btw

I wouldn't be too nice. Infact, I wouldn't be nice at all, but I also wouldn't be a dick.

You need to be firm with them and let them know that the rent has to be paid regardless, and that if it isn't paid, you will deduct it from the deposit or sue them for it. Then remind them that when you get a judgement against them, it will show up in referencing every time they try and rent somewhere else, and on their credit file etc.

If they are genuine and the flat is unbearable, then I'd give them some options, like you have, so both parties get an easy life, but they still have to pay the rent.

People know how to play the system, so they could just be testing you out to see how soft you are or to see how much rent free living they think they can have.

By the sounds of it, they have only just started the tenancy? So if it's still within the fixed period of the tenancy, there isn't anything you can do, rent wise, until they are 2 months in arrears, then you can apply to the court for possession. There are other reasons you can apply for posession, but if it's strictly a rent one, then I think it's 2 months of arrears needed before you can apply. Then god knows how long the situation drags on for and more arrears build up. You can lose a lot more than those 2 months.

Another option would be to give them the option for a mutual termination and say you will let them leave the contract as soon as possible if the flat is so bad. Their reaction to that should tell you how to expect the rest to play out.

[Mario149]

Slagathore said:

I wouldn't be too nice. Infact, I wouldn't be nice at all, but I also wouldn't be a dick.

You need to be firm with them and let them know that the rent has to be paid regardless, and that if it isn't paid, you will deduct it from the deposit or sue them for it. Then remind them that when you get a judgement against them, it will show up in referencing every time they try and rent somewhere else, and on their credit file etc.

I have done exactly this. They didn't appear to like it but since they're foreign I wanted to make sure that they understood how tenancy law worked here so they didn't accidentally make a daft decision thinking it was not no big deal.

Slagathore said:

If they are genuine and the flat is unbearable, then I'd give them some options, like you have, so both parties get an easy life, but they still have to pay the rent.

People know how to play the system, so they could just be testing you out to see how soft you are or to see how much rent free living they think they can have.

By the sounds of it, they have only just started the tenancy? So if it's still within the fixed period of the tenancy, there isn't anything you can do, rent wise, until they are 2 months in arrears, then you can apply to the court for possession. There are other reasons you can apply for posession, but if it's strictly a rent one, then I think it's 2 months of arrears needed before you can apply. Then god knows how long the situation drags on for and more arrears build up. You can lose a lot more than those 2 months.

Another option would be to give them the option for a mutual termination and say you will let them leave the contract as soon as possible if the flat is so bad. Their reaction to that should tell you how to expect the rest to play out.

Tbh thinking about it recently, I genuinely don't think they're after rent free living. They've just been unlucky, can't bothered to compain to the council about the problem and want to hold me responsible for it and leave me to carry the costs even though I have zero obligation, or indeed ability (council said tenants have to complein, not landlord) to do anything. Threatening to withold rent is a bargaining position. But if they ever go 2 months into arrears meaning I can go the court route, then I'll be going there PDQ.

[dazwalsh]

I would be offering 2 options

A- leave within 14 days and full deposit returned, walk away owing nothing

B- stay, but they abide by their contract and if they run into arrears they will be evicted and chased for outstanding rent. Remind them they do not have the safety net of the council if evicted for rent arrears as it's classed as voluntary homelessness.

Avoid the eviction process if possible. Every single aspect of that process favours the tenant and it's probably the most infuriating part of being a landlord, honestly you do not need that stress.

[davek_964]

Although it was a long time ago (more than 16 years) a g/f of mine had non-paying tenants, and the letting agency took it all to court. It resulted in eviction and an attachment to their earnings, so she did get the rent back over time.
(It was so long ago that I can't remember what period they had to pay, but I don't think it was excessive).

[Mario149]

Bit of an update: the tenants did withold rent. The agent did a polite chase a few days later, no joy, I did a formal chase letter sent hardcopy and electronically after another week had passed warning of potential legal action, still no response. It's 2 weeks later now and I've just sent a final demand letter (1st class, proof of posting, will follow it up with an electronic copy tomorrow) stating how much is owed, plus interest etc etc stating that I will commence legal action to recover the unpaid rent in 2 weeks if the oustanding rent and interest due by that point is not paid. In that 2 weeks they will have missed a second payment so I have the option of issuing a Section 8 should I wish.

I'm flip-flopping between going for a Section 8 (eviction plus unpaid rent etc) or simply filing a claim for the unpaid rent and leaving the option open to evict for later. I'm 90% sure they have the money, they're just choosing to try and blackmail me. The issue is that I don't necessarily want to evict them, just get them to pay the rent owed and come to a fair solution for them to leave early that doesn't leave me out of pocket in letting fees and other costs associated with having to find new tenants early.

Section 8 is the default way to go, but can anyone with experience confirm whether I'll be able to add the cost of them not finishing the minimum tenancy term to my claim as well as the unpaid rent? By cost of them not finishing the minimum tenancy term I mean the (pro-rata'ed) lettings agency, contract and inventory fees I'll have to absorb & compensation for say the few weeks it'll take me to re-let the flat after they have gone+++?

+++= showing people round while they are there is a non-starter as they effectively said they'll bad mouth the place to prospective new tenants