new IR35 tool

Author
Discussion

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Is the new IR35's digital tool available anywhere yet?

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
What's new about it?

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
What's new about it?
Been led to believe new rules being introduced in April (public sector) so want to check status.

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
I don't think the status checks/tests will be any different - although the interpretations may be stricter.

bigandclever

13,750 posts

237 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
AIUI the rules haven't changed. What's changed is that, in the Public Sector, the onus has moved from the contractor declaring his IR35 compliance to HMRC, to the end-client (be that a recruitment agency or HM Gov) having to be satisfied of the contractor's IR35 status. Which possibly means public sector clients will probably just say "sod it, too much hard work, they're all IR35 caught", and recruitment agencies will say "sod it, too much hard work, they have to operate under a brolly". There is only one rule that will automatically catch a contractor and that's the 'operating as an officer' one.

Anyway, you're asking about the ESS Employment Status Service which isn't available yet. Latest release date is end of March, which is handy for the April changes.

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
I don't think the status checks/tests will be any different - although the interpretations may be stricter.
From my limited understanding it will be the PSB that will determine the contractor's / worker's status and force agencies to deduct PAYE, NI etc..........not sure how many in house IR35 experts PSB's employ so assume they would err on the safe side but I am not sure how a ‘genuine’ contractor would prove that they fall outside IR35 if incorrectly assessed.




alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
bigandclever said:
AIUI the rules haven't changed. What's changed is that, in the Public Sector, the onus has moved from the contractor declaring his IR35 compliance to HMRC, to the end-client (be that a recruitment agency or HM Gov) having to be satisfied of the contractor's IR35 status. Which possibly means public sector clients will probably just say "sod it, too much hard work, they're all IR35 caught", and recruitment agencies will say "sod it, too much hard work, they have to operate under a brolly". There is only one rule that will automatically catch a contractor and that's the 'operating as an officer' one.

Anyway, you're asking about the ESS Employment Status Service which isn't available yet. Latest release date is end of March, which is handy for the April changes.
Thanks thumbup

Eric Mc

121,768 posts

264 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
alfie2244 said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't think the status checks/tests will be any different - although the interpretations may be stricter.
From my limited understanding it will be the PSB that will determine the contractor's / worker's status and force agencies to deduct PAYE, NI etc..........not sure how many in house IR35 experts PSB's employ so assume they would err on the safe side but I am not sure how a ‘genuine’ contractor would prove that they fall outside IR35 if incorrectly assessed.
I'm sure there will be lots of appeals against such decisions. But, as I said, the criteria for determining whether IR365 applies aren't being changed. It's just that public sector bodies have the power to make the decision rather than just the contractor or HMRC.

arfur

3,871 posts

213 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
alfie2244 said:
Eric Mc said:
I don't think the status checks/tests will be any different - although the interpretations may be stricter.
From my limited understanding it will be the PSB that will determine the contractor's / worker's status and force agencies to deduct PAYE, NI etc..........not sure how many in house IR35 experts PSB's employ so assume they would err on the safe side but I am not sure how a ‘genuine’ contractor would prove that they fall outside IR35 if incorrectly assessed.
I'm sure there will be lots of appeals against such decisions. But, as I said, the criteria for determining whether IR365 applies aren't being changed. It's just that public sector bodies have the power to make the decision rather than just the contractor or HMRC.
The end customer, ie the public sector employee dishing out the contract is the one who decides in or out. Here at one of the larger departments it's already been decided that contracts are to be updated to make them service/output based which ensures they stay outside. Also, G-Cloud managed service scenarios are already classed as outside. HMRc suggest getting the decision built into the contract itself, but this breaks t&c on most Govt framework contracts, incl G-Cloud.

Alex

9,975 posts

283 months

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Alex said:
Will read in depth later thanks.

Could mean rates going up or sticking to private sector only if someone in a PSB takes the easy option.

Alex

9,975 posts

283 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
I think all contractors should refuse PSB contracts until HMRC drop the idea. I wonder how long they would last...

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Online test = borderline.............appointment with accountant fixed for next week.

jammy-git

29,775 posts

211 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Alex said:
I think all contractors should refuse PSB contracts until HMRC drop the idea. I wonder how long they would last...
The contractors or HMRC? hehe

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
jammy-git said:
Alex said:
I think all contractors should refuse PSB contracts until HMRC drop the idea. I wonder how long they would last...
The contractors or HMRC? hehe
Well I know of one PSB that is currently really concerned about where they will be after April 6th but will know a bit more by March 5th if things not sorted out by then. wink

daemon

35,720 posts

196 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
alfie2244 said:
Online test = borderline.............appointment with accountant fixed for next week.
Whats your accountant going to do?

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
daemon said:
alfie2244 said:
Online test = borderline.............appointment with accountant fixed for next week.
Whats your accountant going to do?
Talk a bit and give us a bill probably. wink

daemon

35,720 posts

196 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
Mines coming up as a pass via that contractor calculator tool. Not that it matters as the agency i am working for have blanket deemed us all IN IR35, so unless that stance changes i will be jumping ship come 17th March (i'm paid weekly)

daemon

35,720 posts

196 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
alfie2244 said:
daemon said:
alfie2244 said:
Online test = borderline.............appointment with accountant fixed for next week.
Whats your accountant going to do?
Talk a bit and give us a bill probably. wink
Yup. Sounds about right.

alfie2244

Original Poster:

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 6th February 2017
quotequote all
daemon said:
Mines coming up as a pass. Not that it matters as the agency i am working for have blanket deemed us all IN IR35, so unless that stance changes i will be jumping ship come 17th March (i'm paid weekly)
From the limited research I have done I think there are various options, notwithstanding certain factors not being covered by the test that could be argued, if included, would support a claim of being outside IR35 (which we genuinely think we are IMO).


Also have the added option of not doing Public sector work at all but existing contracts require 28days notice so need to decide where we go before 5th March.

Definitely won't be shutting Ltd co down to work via an umbrella company as has been suggested (not on here).