new IR35 tool

[daemon]

alfie2244 said:

daemon said:

sparks85 said:

Hypothetical question - the PSO I work in is cutting it very fine to decide what they're going to do and process all the contractors. They can barely find their proverbial with a map and two hands let alone assess and process new contracts where applicable for all 10k+ contract staff in 3 to 4 weeks.

Come 6th April, what happens to existing contracts if they haven't got round to determining status of contracts? Do they continue as per the contractors own assessment until the PSO assess it?

Would the PSO be able to backdate their assessment to 6th April?

They need to have the decision made by 6th April. Many are opting for a global "in"....

Is 6th April early enough?

Not for contractors, no, but for the PSOs its time enough.

[sparks85]

daemon said:

sparks85 said:

Hypothetical question - the PSO I work in is cutting it very fine to decide what they're going to do and process all the contractors. They can barely find their proverbial with a map and two hands let alone assess and process new contracts where applicable for all 10k+ contract staff in 3 to 4 weeks.

Come 6th April, what happens to existing contracts if they haven't got round to determining status of contracts? Do they continue as per the contractors own assessment until the PSO assess it?

Would the PSO be able to backdate their assessment to 6th April?

They need to have the decision made by 6th April. Many are opting for a global "in"....

Understand they 'need to' but was just curious - as noted this particular PSO is totally clueless and can envisage them not having processed/informed anyone come the deadline. That said no doubt an emergency blanket communication would be sent out on the 5th April..by which time 90% of contractors will be gone anywhere.

The PSO I deal with will be decimated by this issue, not necessarily in terms of staff numbers but contract staff are responsible for managing £XXXm's of essential infrastructure projects tht will grind to a halt as they simply have no one to pick them up. They've struggled to fill perm roles in the past few years, eg 12 interviewees for a boggo position and not a single one anywhere neear the level required, process repeated twice without success..

Sigh.

[Dan_M5]

Vandenberg said:

Am hearing that a large number of contractors at Scottish Govt have refused to sign new contracts for april.

A lot of people within HRMC left, where i am now people are leaving. But the organisation is trying to find ways round it

[alfie2244]

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

[daemon]

alfie2244 said:

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

Why not do a QDOS test on it?

The result indemnifies you, the agency and the PSO?

[alfie2244]

daemon said:

alfie2244 said:

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

Why not do a QDOS test on it?

The result indemnifies you, the agency and the PSO?

The PSB apparently got "somebody" to look at it (probably a contractor) so it's their decision to make and not prepared to argue............have other irons in the fire so their loss AFAIAC.

[Alex]

alfie2244 said:

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

Did they offer a rate increase to compensate?

[alfie2244]

Alex said:

alfie2244 said:

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

Did they offer a rate increase to compensate?

No because working inside IR35 via umbrella or direct employee is not an option + want to break the chain just in case.

Edited by alfie2244 on Friday 24th February 13:25

[Uncle John]

I'm still in the dark at my place, no one knows a thing.....

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

[bigandclever]

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

[Uncle John]

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

Thanks....


.....and by default means you are admitting you were an employee before and hence will be on HMRC's radar?

[Alex]

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

The problem is, if you are working outside IR35 and you accept a change to "inside" IR35, but your working practices have not changed, then HMRC may reasonably infer that you should have been inside IR35 all along.

[alfie2244]

Uncle John said:

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

Thanks....


.....and by default means you are admitting you were an employee before and hence will be on HMRC's radar?

Potentially but, no offence, IIRC it's your 1st contract so would guess you may be small fry in the scheme of things.

[Uncle John]

alfie2244 said:

Uncle John said:

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

Thanks....


.....and by default means you are admitting you were an employee before and hence will be on HMRC's radar?

Potentially but, no offence, IIRC it's your 1st contract so would guess you may be small fry in the scheme of things.

Nope, been doing it 10 years.

[alfie2244]

Uncle John said:

alfie2244 said:

Uncle John said:

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

Thanks....


.....and by default means you are admitting you were an employee before and hence will be on HMRC's radar?

Potentially but, no offence, IIRC it's your 1st contract so would guess you may be small fry in the scheme of things.

Nope, been doing it 10 years.

Same PSO / agency etc?

eta

Uncle John said:

I currently work for a local authority, my first public sector position, which is just my luck!

[Uncle John]

alfie2244 said:

Uncle John said:

alfie2244 said:

Uncle John said:

bigandclever said:

Uncle John said:

Anyhow, can someone clear up for me please, whether if you go umbrella, does it exempt you from in or out of IR35?

IR35 doesn't apply to employees. And if you work through a brolly you're an employee, so you get taxed as such.

Thanks....


.....and by default means you are admitting you were an employee before and hence will be on HMRC's radar?

Potentially but, no offence, IIRC it's your 1st contract so would guess you may be small fry in the scheme of things.

Nope, been doing it 10 years.

Same PSO / agency etc?

eta

Uncle John said:

I currently work for a local authority, my first public sector position, which is just my luck!

Yep, all my previous contracts have been private sector in banking.

[ecs]

bigandclever said:

This is purely anecdotal but is doing the rounds, but supposedly it was released yesterday (private beta, don't share the URL, etc) and crashed when 25 people tried to use it at once

Probably should've got some contractors in there to build it for them

[daemon]

alfie2244 said:

daemon said:

alfie2244 said:

Well the decision has been made....Agency argue it is outside.....PSB argue it is inside........28 days notice sent .......... hello private sector

Why not do a QDOS test on it?

The result indemnifies you, the agency and the PSO?

The PSB apparently got "somebody" to look at it (probably a contractor) so it's their decision to make and not prepared to argue............have other irons in the fire so their loss AFAIAC.

I think the place i am are gravitating towards the brain dead "you're all in" stance.

The couple of spineless wonders who could make a decision for individuals are too "afraid" to in case they get it wrong and get fired (yeah, like anyone ever gets fired....), so i'd say with 99% certainty that will be how it will go.

On the plus side the agency i am with are looking at doing a payroll run after 31st March but before 7th April which means i can finish a week later.

[Countdown]

daemon said:

The couple of spineless wonders who could make a decision for individuals are too "afraid" to in case they get it wrong and get fired (yeah, like anyone ever gets fired....), so i'd say with 99% certainty that will be how it will go.

From what I understand the IR35 tests haven't changed. If Contractors fell foul of the test they were supposed to make a "deemed payment" when they did their tax return. The only thing that's changed is that the Contractor is now effectively having tax deducted at source so pays the tax "up front" .

Other than that, what's changed?

ETA If PSB gets it wrong they get fined 5x the amount paid to the Contractor. That tends to focus minds.

[Dan_M5]

ecs said:

bigandclever said:

This is purely anecdotal but is doing the rounds, but supposedly it was released yesterday (private beta, don't share the URL, etc) and crashed when 25 people tried to use it at once

Probably should've got some contractors in there to build it for them

They did, they left