Gone very quiet
Discussion
President Merkin said:
Twenty years in business in a commodified, over supplied market have taught me a few things about pricing. There's always someone cheaper, it's an occupational hazard. Practically all customers expect champagne service at lemonade prices & you have to have the resolve to not buy work, that is a routine temptation in a competitive environment.
Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
This is so true. Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
There is a massive disconnect between turnover and profit. Too many people think turnover is 100% profit. And then can't understand why there is no money in the bank.
Jordie Barretts sock said:
President Merkin said:
Twenty years in business in a commodified, over supplied market have taught me a few things about pricing. There's always someone cheaper, it's an occupational hazard. Practically all customers expect champagne service at lemonade prices & you have to have the resolve to not buy work, that is a routine temptation in a competitive environment.
Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
This is so true. Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
There is a massive disconnect between turnover and profit. Too many people think turnover is 100% profit. And then can't understand why there is no money in the bank.
The problem with setting your USP as being the cheapest is that there’s nothing to stop anyone undercutting. Then what? Plus, inevitably, perhaps not immediately, but certainly over time, issues of quality and service will always serve to reduce your market. It can be corrosive in some cases.
President Merkin said:
Twenty years in business in a commodified, over supplied market have taught me a few things about pricing. There's always someone cheaper, it's an occupational hazard. Practically all customers expect champagne service at lemonade prices & you have to have the resolve to not buy work, that is a routine temptation in a competitive environment.
Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
The flip side as a buyer in a commidified market is that it's very difficult to see the difference in value in what appears to be exactly the same item, priced at different levels.Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
I've been looking at suspension components recently for example, there's this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204261588630?itmmeta=01...
And this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394756754844?_trkparms=...
Seeminly identical parts, but one is more than three times the price of the other. To furthre complicate things, Meyle (the more expensive supplier) used to have a good reputation, but I understand that their quality has dipped in recent years.
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 23 March 23:28
youngsyr said:
The flip side as a buyer in a commidified market is that it's very difficult to see the difference in value in what appears to be exactly the same item, priced at different levels.
I've been looking at suspension components recently for example, there's this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204261588630?itmmeta=01...
And this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394756754844?_trkparms=...
Seeminly identical parts, but one is more than three times the price of the other. To furthre complicate things, Meyle (the more expensive supplier) used to have a good reputation, but I understand that their quality has dipped in recent years.
A case of the buyer knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing? Firms run by buyers rather than engineers are to be avoided, in general.I've been looking at suspension components recently for example, there's this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204261588630?itmmeta=01...
And this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394756754844?_trkparms=...
Seeminly identical parts, but one is more than three times the price of the other. To furthre complicate things, Meyle (the more expensive supplier) used to have a good reputation, but I understand that their quality has dipped in recent years.
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 23 March 23:28
Which is why my car is running RSS ball-jointed parts.
Digga said:
youngsyr said:
The flip side as a buyer in a commidified market is that it's very difficult to see the difference in value in what appears to be exactly the same item, priced at different levels.
I've been looking at suspension components recently for example, there's this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204261588630?itmmeta=01...
And this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394756754844?_trkparms=...
Seeminly identical parts, but one is more than three times the price of the other. To furthre complicate things, Meyle (the more expensive supplier) used to have a good reputation, but I understand that their quality has dipped in recent years.
A case of the buyer knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing? Firms run by buyers rather than engineers are to be avoided, in general.I've been looking at suspension components recently for example, there's this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204261588630?itmmeta=01...
And this:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394756754844?_trkparms=...
Seeminly identical parts, but one is more than three times the price of the other. To furthre complicate things, Meyle (the more expensive supplier) used to have a good reputation, but I understand that their quality has dipped in recent years.
Edited by youngsyr on Saturday 23 March 23:28
Which is why my car is running RSS ball-jointed parts.
youngsyr said:
A decision of which you seem very proud, but how do you know you haven't paid through the nose for parts that do exactly the same job as those available for a fraction of the price?
In truth, you don’t, until you run them. They have a decent reputation, as do others, like Elephant racing for example, but you can only go on real world feedback.FWIW, ball/rose joints are nowhere near as harsh I people perceive them to be.
Whistle said:
RayDonovan said:
See Tesla for reference. I've got a test drive booked next Wednesday. Used an online form, the test drive appeared on my Tesla app and I uploaded front and back of my driver's license. You turn up, drive the car and they follow up with a online questionnaire.
I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
I turned up at a local Porsche dealer to look at a Cayman GTS they had in. Got told I could have a test drive once I had paid a deposit, I walked away.I don't wanna be faffed over, given numerous finance quotes or indeed drink their coffee. I wanna drive a Tesla Model Y to see if I like it or not.
I wasn’t killing time I am seriously looking to buy the right one.
Jordie Barretts sock said:
President Merkin said:
Twenty years in business in a commodified, over supplied market have taught me a few things about pricing. There's always someone cheaper, it's an occupational hazard. Practically all customers expect champagne service at lemonade prices & you have to have the resolve to not buy work, that is a routine temptation in a competitive environment.
Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
This is so true. Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
There is a massive disconnect between turnover and profit. Too many people think turnover is 100% profit. And then can't understand why there is no money in the bank.
One of our regular customers started using someone else in order to save a bit of money. We told them we wouldn't match the price. Anyway one of our employees was approached one time by one of their employees and he said "I've no idea why our boss stopped using you, the new lot are rude and unreliable."
M1AGM said:
For a bit of seemingly good news, one of my local plant hire companies cannot provide me with a digger and tipper next week, they’ve nothing available at any of their depots. Must be busy!
A friend of mine had a small plant hire business and often used to refuse lucrative hires so he could use the diggers for his own projects at the weekend. I used to say to him you're digging a hole for yourself. President Merkin said:
Not sure whcih end of paper & packaging you're in but I'm seeing a bunch of consolidation going on in that business right now which I imagine is bearing down hard on capex. DS Smith about to be sold, although that looks comlicated & Smurfit Kappa & Westrock tieing up etc.
That is what we are finding, we had a few quite large projects that have all been put on hold or cancelled due to a stop on capex, our repairs are OK but we need a few new machines, hopefully it will pick up soon.urquattroGus said:
A bit worrying if the company paying the persons wages is really feeling the squeeze more than some employees? Not sustainable? Obviously not joined up thinking, but still..
The politics of envy, don't think there's a massive demographic you allude to, but isn't that the beauty of capitalism? President Merkin said:
Twenty years in business in a commodified, over supplied market have taught me a few things about pricing. There's always someone cheaper, it's an occupational hazard. Practically all customers expect champagne service at lemonade prices & you have to have the resolve to not buy work, that is a routine temptation in a competitive environment.
Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
Having that power is a great leveller especially between small companies and large companies (if you can manage to get to that position)Understanding that you are not the supplicant is key to this. Your customer has a problem & you have the solution. Once you grasp that, you're on your way & if your customer doesn't, then they were never sticking around anyway, so no great loss.
I can still hear the mix of anger, disbelief & disillusionment when our boss told the head buyer from an Amazon depot that any first order from any company was pro-forma or p
s off after they played the "do you know who we are" card 
We're currently hunger and burst at the moment but enough to keep the lad ticking over with enough capacity for large rush jobs
Demand is growing albeit because raw materials costs are staying static or coming down due to over supply in the market
Edited by Strocky on Wednesday 27th March 10:33
Strocky said:
Having that power is a great leveller especially between small companies and large companies (if you can manage to get to that position)
It is. Some games are rigged. If you supply Tesco or Aldi, chances are they're your biggest customer & they will act accordingly. The criticism of my point about being more in charge of a relationship than appearances suggest is that you as a supplier can easily be replaced, assuming you're not an out & out specialist. This is often true & it's happened to me many times. In all of those cases, I look back & think I would have ended up out sooner or later anyway for various issues around trust, slipperiness, the usual sorts of things that upset one sided business relationships, so in my view, it acts as a filter against clients who were always heading for the exit. My best customers I've hung onto in excess of a decade & I've done that by demonstrating value to them, again in the usual ways - price, service, flexibility, quality and so on. In those cases, they view it as mutually beneficial which is how it should work if you're doing right by yourself.
A lot of words to say something simple: Never undervalue yourself, no matter how tempting it might be.
M1AGM said:
For a bit of seemingly good news, one of my local plant hire companies cannot provide me with a digger and tipper next week, they’ve nothing available at any of their depots. Must be busy!
Good stuff. Excavator sales continued to be below the post-pandemic delivery boom of Jan/Feb 2023.However, most plant firms say they are mad busy in March. I think the weather will be the greatest variable for much of the general construction industry. If (when?) it dries out, things will really gather momentum.
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