Becoming successful (and getting stonkingly rich) today
Discussion
asfault said:
The issue with your business is if you could get people who ahve the skills and drive to wrok that you want they will be smart enough to think "hey whey am i working for this guy i can do it myself"
100% the cycle usually goes like this
start young, totally useless
start grasping the fact its hard work, start doing ok
start to be able to do things and be helpful
start to be able to do small jobs on their own.
Despise me because they genuinely believe i have earnt more than they have from the days work, totally ignoring any overheads, costs or the fact i priced for 2 days and its taken them 4 and i have actually lost from it.
They then start on their own, quickly realise i wasn't joking and then moan to me about all the stuff i moan about
There are people out there who want to work, don't want the stress and worry and understand that. But unfortualey they are thin on the ground.
I don’t think it’s any easier or harder than it has been in the past. I think you just need accept that the world has and will continue to change.
For instance that the UK doesn’t really make stuff anymore but we have loads of expertise that will help you get you made somewhere else.
For example I work in the clothing industry. 30-40 years ago you wanted to take me on you needed a factory and employees plus expertise to train them and design everything. Pretty hard to start from scratch.
In 2024 if you design a line of suits or something in your bedroom. You can take them to a nice lady I know in Leicester who in a couple of days working with her will have created digital patterns of your designs. You can then go to one of the many outsourcing companies in the UK who have access to manufacturing in Asia, so you don’t even need to take the risk of dealing with a factory in Sri Lanka.
You do a deal with a 3PL warehouse to link up with your econmerce website which can be set up by my web designer for about 1k. So that the website takes orders send directly to the 3PL warehouse packs it sends it to your customer for you.
If it explodes you just put on more orders don’t have to worry about scaling up the capacity already exists.
You can run all of this from your bedroom to get you started. For about 20k. Not bad to become fashion label.
The companies to facilitate this stuff where t so common back in the day but they exist now that’s what the UK is good at specialist services.
I have gone from having 60 employees here to 3. I used to have massive problems finding people and always struggled to keep my manufacturing going at the required level. Now I just put orders in with my outsourcer and they hit my warehouse 30 days later for 40% less and made better because they have all the latest machinery I couldn’t afford.
For instance that the UK doesn’t really make stuff anymore but we have loads of expertise that will help you get you made somewhere else.
For example I work in the clothing industry. 30-40 years ago you wanted to take me on you needed a factory and employees plus expertise to train them and design everything. Pretty hard to start from scratch.
In 2024 if you design a line of suits or something in your bedroom. You can take them to a nice lady I know in Leicester who in a couple of days working with her will have created digital patterns of your designs. You can then go to one of the many outsourcing companies in the UK who have access to manufacturing in Asia, so you don’t even need to take the risk of dealing with a factory in Sri Lanka.
You do a deal with a 3PL warehouse to link up with your econmerce website which can be set up by my web designer for about 1k. So that the website takes orders send directly to the 3PL warehouse packs it sends it to your customer for you.
If it explodes you just put on more orders don’t have to worry about scaling up the capacity already exists.
You can run all of this from your bedroom to get you started. For about 20k. Not bad to become fashion label.
The companies to facilitate this stuff where t so common back in the day but they exist now that’s what the UK is good at specialist services.
I have gone from having 60 employees here to 3. I used to have massive problems finding people and always struggled to keep my manufacturing going at the required level. Now I just put orders in with my outsourcer and they hit my warehouse 30 days later for 40% less and made better because they have all the latest machinery I couldn’t afford.
ntiz said:
I don’t think it’s any easier or harder than it has been in the past. I think you just need accept that the world has and will continue to change.
For instance that the UK doesn’t really make stuff anymore but we have loads of expertise that will help you get you made somewhere else.
For example I work in the clothing industry. 30-40 years ago you wanted to take me on you needed a factory and employees plus expertise to train them and design everything. Pretty hard to start from scratch.
In 2024 if you design a line of suits or something in your bedroom. You can take them to a nice lady I know in Leicester who in a couple of days working with her will have created digital patterns of your designs. You can then go to one of the many outsourcing companies in the UK who have access to manufacturing in Asia, so you don’t even need to take the risk of dealing with a factory in Sri Lanka.
You do a deal with a 3PL warehouse to link up with your econmerce website which can be set up by my web designer for about 1k. So that the website takes orders send directly to the 3PL warehouse packs it sends it to your customer for you.
If it explodes you just put on more orders don’t have to worry about scaling up the capacity already exists.
You can run all of this from your bedroom to get you started. For about 20k. Not bad to become fashion label.
The companies to facilitate this stuff where t so common back in the day but they exist now that’s what the UK is good at specialist services.
I have gone from having 60 employees here to 3. I used to have massive problems finding people and always struggled to keep my manufacturing going at the required level. Now I just put orders in with my outsourcer and they hit my warehouse 30 days later for 40% less and made better because they have all the latest machinery I couldn’t afford.
Is this a way to become stonking rich though? Sign me up....For instance that the UK doesn’t really make stuff anymore but we have loads of expertise that will help you get you made somewhere else.
For example I work in the clothing industry. 30-40 years ago you wanted to take me on you needed a factory and employees plus expertise to train them and design everything. Pretty hard to start from scratch.
In 2024 if you design a line of suits or something in your bedroom. You can take them to a nice lady I know in Leicester who in a couple of days working with her will have created digital patterns of your designs. You can then go to one of the many outsourcing companies in the UK who have access to manufacturing in Asia, so you don’t even need to take the risk of dealing with a factory in Sri Lanka.
You do a deal with a 3PL warehouse to link up with your econmerce website which can be set up by my web designer for about 1k. So that the website takes orders send directly to the 3PL warehouse packs it sends it to your customer for you.
If it explodes you just put on more orders don’t have to worry about scaling up the capacity already exists.
You can run all of this from your bedroom to get you started. For about 20k. Not bad to become fashion label.
The companies to facilitate this stuff where t so common back in the day but they exist now that’s what the UK is good at specialist services.
I have gone from having 60 employees here to 3. I used to have massive problems finding people and always struggled to keep my manufacturing going at the required level. Now I just put orders in with my outsourcer and they hit my warehouse 30 days later for 40% less and made better because they have all the latest machinery I couldn’t afford.
jasonrobertson86 said:
Is this a way to become stonking rich though? Sign me up....
Depends on the definition of filthy rich. The fashion industry is one of the most profitable in the world. On one end of the spectrum you have the Arnault family who are probably the wealthiest family on the planet from profit (excluding oil rich royalty). At the more relatable end have a look at Fairfax and Favor, started up relatively recently turnover of over 20 million they own no manufacturing at all only a bit of design and marketing. They started out buying an off the shelf loafer in Portugal had their branding put on it and created the perception through good marketing that they are a posh shoe manufacturer. The guys who started don’t have half a clue how to make a pair of shoes.
But had a bloody good finger on what marketing sells to their target audience. Same skill that has always been required in business.
See also PH very own Neil Clifford made his money in fashion. I however have no idea what his story is regarding knowledge of design and manufacturing. Not going to try claim otherwise.
I think everyone suggesting a trade has a different definition of “stonkingly rich” to me.
Establishing your own little service business will no doubt earn you a decent living.
But if you want to make £20M, £50M or £100M building a business, the thing you build needs to be worth £10s or £100s of millions.
Take Euan Blair - rumour is he managed to sell £20M of his shares in his business during the last fundraising. Hardly the next Bill Gates, but a very tidy sum nonetheless.
Establishing your own little service business will no doubt earn you a decent living.
But if you want to make £20M, £50M or £100M building a business, the thing you build needs to be worth £10s or £100s of millions.
Take Euan Blair - rumour is he managed to sell £20M of his shares in his business during the last fundraising. Hardly the next Bill Gates, but a very tidy sum nonetheless.
ntiz said:
. . . . .
At the more relatable end have a look at Fairfax and Favor, started up relatively recently turnover of over 20 million they own no manufacturing at all only a bit of design and marketing. They started out buying an off the shelf loafer in Portugal had their branding put on it and created the perception through good marketing that they are a posh shoe manufacturer. The guys who started don’t have half a clue how to make a pair of shoes.
But had a bloody good finger on what marketing sells to their target audience. Same skill that has always been required in business.
.....
Both Marcus Fairfax Fountaine and partner, Felix Favor Parker know how to buy cheap and sell the lifestyle angle. To be fair, while going all 'British country pile' they don't pretend their products are British. Their Tatler lifestyles really help though - getting 'Saltburn' vibes! At the more relatable end have a look at Fairfax and Favor, started up relatively recently turnover of over 20 million they own no manufacturing at all only a bit of design and marketing. They started out buying an off the shelf loafer in Portugal had their branding put on it and created the perception through good marketing that they are a posh shoe manufacturer. The guys who started don’t have half a clue how to make a pair of shoes.
But had a bloody good finger on what marketing sells to their target audience. Same skill that has always been required in business.
.....
It's the shoe version of every other 'posho' / aspirational brand template we've seen in the last 20 years. And done really well IMHO.
Absolutely right they don’t claim to be British at all
Anyway my main point was simply that you don’t need to be able to know how to design or make a product to be able to produce it in the modern world. With the right product and marketing you can build a very successful company in 2024.
I just think they are an excellent example of doing that at a realistic and achievable level.
Anyway my main point was simply that you don’t need to be able to know how to design or make a product to be able to produce it in the modern world. With the right product and marketing you can build a very successful company in 2024.
I just think they are an excellent example of doing that at a realistic and achievable level.
Edited by ntiz on Tuesday 20th February 23:40
Everyone I can think of with >£100M has acquired it through one of four means:
1. Inheritance
2. Built a business, their stake being worth a staggering amount, and (crucially) - managed to sell out
3. Carried interest on venture or private equity investments
4. CEO of a very large company, hitting generous share-based performance targets over a long period of time
I guess you could add “euro millions winners” to the list.
1. Inheritance
2. Built a business, their stake being worth a staggering amount, and (crucially) - managed to sell out
3. Carried interest on venture or private equity investments
4. CEO of a very large company, hitting generous share-based performance targets over a long period of time
I guess you could add “euro millions winners” to the list.
ntiz said:
jasonrobertson86 said:
Is this a way to become stonking rich though? Sign me up....
Depends on the definition of filthy rich. The fashion industry is one of the most profitable in the world. On one end of the spectrum you have the Arnault family who are probably the wealthiest family on the planet from profit (excluding oil rich royalty). At the more relatable end have a look at Fairfax and Favor, started up relatively recently turnover of over 20 million they own no manufacturing at all only a bit of design and marketing. They started out buying an off the shelf loafer in Portugal had their branding put on it and created the perception through good marketing that they are a posh shoe manufacturer. The guys who started don’t have half a clue how to make a pair of shoes.
But had a bloody good finger on what marketing sells to their target audience. Same skill that has always been required in business.
See also PH very own Neil Clifford made his money in fashion. I however have no idea what his story is regarding knowledge of design and manufacturing. Not going to try claim otherwise.
Frimley111R said:
I'd argue that nothing has changed. Tech companies are just another type of business, but still a business, with the same requirements as any other. The points about working hard and getting to the top of the tree are as valid now as they ever were and I don't see any change there either.
There are some differences that the internet/tech provided which have helped people make quick/big money but those types of people would have done it in any decade. Success and significant income come to few people because you need to work very hard/be in the right sector at the right time/get lucky/have money to start and scale, etc.
In the past you didn't have vloggers/bloggers etc who could make millions online with minimal/zero start-up costs either.
The profile of tech vs trad is usually very very different when you look at factors such as cost of entry, cost/ability to scale, cost of service delivery, potential margin, reach, and (depending on what it is) ability to fend off competition. And that’s before you even consider the level of customer lock in and repeatable (especially subscription) business that some deliver and further drive valuation multiples. There are some differences that the internet/tech provided which have helped people make quick/big money but those types of people would have done it in any decade. Success and significant income come to few people because you need to work very hard/be in the right sector at the right time/get lucky/have money to start and scale, etc.
In the past you didn't have vloggers/bloggers etc who could make millions online with minimal/zero start-up costs either.
A lot of those things stack the odds of a tech business being capable of achieving a high valuation and delivering value for the founder.
It’s not all rosy in tech. The days of being able to easily gain significant investment have gone, valuations are (generally down), and it’s tough to make money when budgets are constrained. Making money immediately isn’t essential, but the trajectory needs to be clear.
Look back through history and typically the big money has been associated with innovation of one form or another (even if we don’t necessarily see those businesses as innovative right now)…
m3jappa said:
asfault said:
The issue with your business is if you could get people who ahve the skills and drive to wrok that you want they will be smart enough to think "hey whey am i working for this guy i can do it myself"
100% the cycle usually goes like this
start young, totally useless
start grasping the fact its hard work, start doing ok
start to be able to do things and be helpful
start to be able to do small jobs on their own.
Despise me because they genuinely believe i have earnt more than they have from the days work, totally ignoring any overheads, costs or the fact i priced for 2 days and its taken them 4 and i have actually lost from it.
They then start on their own, quickly realise i wasn't joking and then moan to me about all the stuff i moan about
There are people out there who want to work, don't want the stress and worry and understand that. But unfortualey they are thin on the ground.
The trick to making it work seems to be investing in the big/expensive/specialist kit (and associated paperwork) that newcomers can’t/don’t have the balls to buy but the big/specialist/profitable jobs need. Of course, to get those jobs, there also needs to be someone running it to who wants to devote time and resource to jumping through the hoops to secure those bigger jobs.
Take something simple like drainage or tree surgery. There’s a huge difference between the lad with a mini-digger / chainsaw and those winning the major contracts that need £100ks of equipment and a bigger team.
There are some factors that are common between the two. A refusal to accept the status quo is probably the biggest. But that needs to be combined with a does of reality and some understanding of what building a business involves.
Just to add, people I know who are very well off (millions).
1 Made all his money in property - just sold a piece of land that he parks cars on next to his hotel for £2.2m
2 Invested in properties in Canary Wharf and made lots of millions
3 Was a shareholder in a small tech firm that was bought out and is worth £5m+ (still have to push him to go to the bar though!)
4 Was a small shareholder in a mining company which was bought out for millions
So, a bit of luck, bit of investing...
If I was to do it all again I'd go down the property route to make big money.
1 Made all his money in property - just sold a piece of land that he parks cars on next to his hotel for £2.2m
2 Invested in properties in Canary Wharf and made lots of millions
3 Was a shareholder in a small tech firm that was bought out and is worth £5m+ (still have to push him to go to the bar though!
)4 Was a small shareholder in a mining company which was bought out for millions
So, a bit of luck, bit of investing...
If I was to do it all again I'd go down the property route to make big money.
brickwall said:
I think everyone suggesting a trade has a different definition of “stonkingly rich” to me.
Establishing your own little service business will no doubt earn you a decent living.
But if you want to make £20M, £50M or £100M building a business, the thing you build needs to be worth £10s or £100s of millions.
Take Euan Blair - rumour is he managed to sell £20M of his shares in his business during the last fundraising. Hardly the next Bill Gates, but a very tidy sum nonetheless.
As a trade with a small business i agree totally.Establishing your own little service business will no doubt earn you a decent living.
But if you want to make £20M, £50M or £100M building a business, the thing you build needs to be worth £10s or £100s of millions.
Take Euan Blair - rumour is he managed to sell £20M of his shares in his business during the last fundraising. Hardly the next Bill Gates, but a very tidy sum nonetheless.
However.
I have a mate who does fencing. I don't even think he could put one up himself. He has been quite successful, now having around 130 staff.
He has started to get into groundwork, started to buy land, started to build houses for himself. I don't know what else he dos but there will be more.
I would bet he will be worth tens of millions by the times he's 50. By all accounts he's doing pretty well now. Huge hunger for money.
He is unique though (to me) i have never met anyone like it.Very impressive person. Even more impressive in this type of industry is that he never brags and is a decent bloke.
Again not bill gates granted but about 300 steps above anyone else.
m3jappa said:
Huge hunger for money.
amongst many other things, I think this is important.My observation is that becoming even modestly rich requires some quite "unpleasant" stuff, for example working long hours, not seeing your children, putting your financial security on the line. Some people, when they have made "enough", choose to stop doing those things. Some people carry on, as if they still NEED to. And perhaps they DO need to. Call it being "driven" if you will.
Krhuangbin said:
I don't see that many of my age or under (millennials backwards) are interested in "old school" industry; manufacturing, engineering, commodities of all types, importing, large scale food supply..... widgets......carpet production.... waste management.....whatever!! Beige industries.....
Waste Management is a pond I swim in quite a bit. It's a very broad church and there's no shortage of young people entering into the field. I work with one at the moment. She's 28 and astoundingly good and dedicated. Her field of specialism is Waste Data which is a vital component that supports the proper development and management of municipal waste services around the world. She's developed unique modelling techniques and tools that are now ingrained in cities around the world. She's independent and I have no doubt that she will be owning and running a major consulting firm by the time she hits mid-30s which will be acquired by one of the larger ones by the time she's 40. The trajectory is set on this course. And she is not alone.Waste Management segues into wider Sustainability related endeavours and here there exists a great deal of interest, activity and opportunity. I was, for a while, sector chair of a regional group that supported start-ups and small businesses in the green-tech sector in the East of England. There were close to 100 companies registered. Few of the owners were over 40. And the majority of them were doing exceptionally well with inventions, products, services or whatever. This is a sector in which investment is 'reasonably' abundant which means you have these young people running interesting companies that are properly capitalised where demand exists and is growing.
The most successful of these was a chap who developed a waterless toilet (not exactly waterless but used something like 20% of the water of a conventional toilet). He started that journey in 2010 in his late 20s. Ended up with McDonalds installing these toilets in all their restaurants across the UK and a lot of Europe, amongst others. He exited a couple for years back a very wealthy chap.
So I think there's still much opportunity in these 'beige industries'. But the difference today is that there is need for a greater degree of academic capacity amongst those how embark upon an endeavour here. They days of someone leaving school at 14 with no qualifications and ending up running a multi-million pound business is, I think, far less likely.
Chap I know round here built a sprawing waste company. Started off doing skips, now subs bin rounds for the council, has a recycling centre, bio mass energy plant all sorts. Last time I bumped into him, he'd just bought a Eurocopter to smoke around in.
Someone in my close family has built & sold three distribution businesses, retired at 50 with somewhere in the region of £10m cash assets. I do the same & live a comfortable existence although not at the same level as I simply don't posess the same drive but I'm cool with it. In my experience, you can forget inheritance & the lottery. Those people are vanishingly small in the scheme of things. Investing, fine if you have the time & capital. Most don't.
Climbing the greasy pole in the corporate world is fraught. Assuming the aim is CEO or C suite (eurgh) at the least. I would discount it The odds of becoming a director of Global Mega Corp are not remotely on your side but will kill you in the trying.
If you want to get somewhere between comfortably off & wealthy, then paddle your own canoe. Taking the risk is not for everyone and it definitely helps if you can start young when you only have your cock to keep. I don't really think it matters what you do, there's money in everything if you know what your'e doing. Pioneering a sector is massively risky but also rewarding for the very few who win. Elbowing your way in to an existing line of business is much more certain but you have to live with competition. IMO that's a good thing, keeps you sharp & often as not, all you have to do is be slightly better than the rest be it pricing, service, innovation, whatever.
The common thread between everyone I know who's done ok is the willingness to graft, recognise that opportunity wears overalls & looks like hard work, be opportunistic, understand that luck can play a big role but never rely on it & ride the thing like a horse on the assumption that it can all go wrong at any time. Of all the nonsense I've spouted here, this last para is the one I would tell my kids.
Someone in my close family has built & sold three distribution businesses, retired at 50 with somewhere in the region of £10m cash assets. I do the same & live a comfortable existence although not at the same level as I simply don't posess the same drive but I'm cool with it. In my experience, you can forget inheritance & the lottery. Those people are vanishingly small in the scheme of things. Investing, fine if you have the time & capital. Most don't.
Climbing the greasy pole in the corporate world is fraught. Assuming the aim is CEO or C suite (eurgh) at the least. I would discount it The odds of becoming a director of Global Mega Corp are not remotely on your side but will kill you in the trying.
If you want to get somewhere between comfortably off & wealthy, then paddle your own canoe. Taking the risk is not for everyone and it definitely helps if you can start young when you only have your cock to keep. I don't really think it matters what you do, there's money in everything if you know what your'e doing. Pioneering a sector is massively risky but also rewarding for the very few who win. Elbowing your way in to an existing line of business is much more certain but you have to live with competition. IMO that's a good thing, keeps you sharp & often as not, all you have to do is be slightly better than the rest be it pricing, service, innovation, whatever.
The common thread between everyone I know who's done ok is the willingness to graft, recognise that opportunity wears overalls & looks like hard work, be opportunistic, understand that luck can play a big role but never rely on it & ride the thing like a horse on the assumption that it can all go wrong at any time. Of all the nonsense I've spouted here, this last para is the one I would tell my kids.
StevieBee said:
The days of someone leaving school at 14 with no qualifications and ending up running a multi-million pound business is, I think, far less likely.
I'm not so sure, IME people who are successful from minimal qualifications etc. tend to have the type of personality that makes qualifications irrelevant. Not saying they didn't have qualifications but look at many key entrepreneurs, they aren't successful due to qualifications or knowledge, they often just have a different mindset. I watch James Sinclair on YT. He started as a children's entertainer but is clearly bursting with energy 100% of the time and is worth millions now but continues to work hard and build his businesses up. He say that nothing he is doing will change his lifestyle now because he already has all he and his family need.
Frimley111R said:
I'm not so sure, IME people who are successful from minimal qualifications etc. tend to have the type of personality that makes qualifications irrelevant.
Not saying they didn't have qualifications but look at many key entrepreneurs, they aren't successful due to qualifications or knowledge, they often just have a different mindset. I watch James Sinclair on YT. He started as a children's entertainer but is clearly bursting with energy 100% of the time and is worth millions now but continues to work hard and build his businesses up. He say that nothing he is doing will change his lifestyle now because he already has all he and his family need.
I used to work with a chap who started a UK household name firm. He was an annoying and pretentious individual, universally disliked by his staff. Read his own account of this rise to the top and it is largely nonsense. But he was like a Duracell bunny and believed his own bullsNot saying they didn't have qualifications but look at many key entrepreneurs, they aren't successful due to qualifications or knowledge, they often just have a different mindset. I watch James Sinclair on YT. He started as a children's entertainer but is clearly bursting with energy 100% of the time and is worth millions now but continues to work hard and build his businesses up. He say that nothing he is doing will change his lifestyle now because he already has all he and his family need.
t. It worked.The key is, in a trade, developing a good order book and delivering on your promises, most trades seem to get a few weeks out and become very vague.
If a profitable order book is combined with a couple of good employees you’re heading in the right direction. But there’s a hump to get over before the business achieves scale to pay overheads.
The other killer is a personal discipline around money, when most small businesses start making decent money having the discipline to reinvest this into the business rather than spunking it on flashy tat is one not many seem to possess.
If a profitable order book is combined with a couple of good employees you’re heading in the right direction. But there’s a hump to get over before the business achieves scale to pay overheads.
The other killer is a personal discipline around money, when most small businesses start making decent money having the discipline to reinvest this into the business rather than spunking it on flashy tat is one not many seem to possess.
dave123456 said:
The other killer is a personal discipline around money, when most small businesses start making decent money having the discipline to reinvest this into the business rather than spunking it on flashy tat is one not many seem to possess.
Key point, easier said than done though. Saw a program once about Warren Buffet. He drives himself to work in a modest car (Cadillac) and stops at McDonalds drive through for his breakfast. He has 3 different breakfasts at 3 different price points, he decides which to order based on his assessment of work the day before. If he had a good day he'll order his favourite/most expensive, crap day and he orders the cheapest.Imagine the discipline of the guy when he orders the cheapest breakfast even though he could buy the whole chain.
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