How do I protect my business idea from being stolen?
Discussion
I've had an idea which could radically change the way in which the company I work for sells its products. It could also be extended to allow for massive expansion of the company into uncharted areas of its existing field. It's a fantastic idea with extraordinary potential. Noone is doing it yet but it could become universally popular in both the mainstream and specialist areas - I can't begin to describe how huge it could be!
In order to progress the concept I have to explain it to colleagues who have the tools to turn it into reality. How do I prevent them from simply assuming ownership of my idea once they know what it is? On my own I wouldn't have the resources, either financially or knowledge-wise, to take it anywhere, so this is an amazing opportunity. I accept that the input of others will have a value, but I want to protect my interests too.
I was advised by a legal professional who specialises in music, that music which I have written should be recorded and posted to myself by spcecial delivery and kept sealed-up when I get it back - That way I have it in a sealed and dated package to prove that I was in possession of it before anyone else. Would it be enough to write down an explicit description of my business idea and post it to myself in the same way, before telling anyone, or do I have to take it to a solicitor... and in fact, does there have to be something more tangible in existance before it can be copyrighted/patented/etc.
In order to progress the concept I have to explain it to colleagues who have the tools to turn it into reality. How do I prevent them from simply assuming ownership of my idea once they know what it is? On my own I wouldn't have the resources, either financially or knowledge-wise, to take it anywhere, so this is an amazing opportunity. I accept that the input of others will have a value, but I want to protect my interests too.
I was advised by a legal professional who specialises in music, that music which I have written should be recorded and posted to myself by spcecial delivery and kept sealed-up when I get it back - That way I have it in a sealed and dated package to prove that I was in possession of it before anyone else. Would it be enough to write down an explicit description of my business idea and post it to myself in the same way, before telling anyone, or do I have to take it to a solicitor... and in fact, does there have to be something more tangible in existance before it can be copyrighted/patented/etc.
Route324 said:
Mitch, I'm unclear if you are looking to protect this idea in order to create a business for yourself or you're looking to exploit the potential as an employee somewhere, but want some recognition/reward for it?
The company I work for encourages enterprise and has a yearly opportunity for individuals to put an idea forward and invite relevant colleagues, who's knowledge is required, to assist in a project to drive the idea to resolution. At the end of the project the team gives a presentaton to the board.What I want to ensure is that if this does take off and blossom into a highly profitable venture, that I don't go back to being an £18.5k a year wage-slave while the chairman gets rapidly richer off the back of something that I've thought of and driven to a point of being proven to be viable. I want some ownership so the powers-that-be can't simply take it off me and get even richer while I continue to spend my life wondering whether to eat or turn the central heating on this week.
Also, I'm so convinced by the potential that this has, that if I reach the end of the project and the company doesn't embrace it, but work carried out by myself and my team has proven it to be viable, I want it to be my property so I can drive it forward outside the boundary of my existing employer's jurisdiction.
ginettag27 said:
Check your Ts and Cs...
You mean my contract and my employment handbook? Nothing in there to suggest that I can't 'copyright' this idea as my own. More pressingly I have to ascertain exactly how to copyright it because I don't have long before I have to present the idea to be given the go-ahead as one of the projects.Before you read on, I am not here to shoot your idea down, I am just telling you the reasons why this will not be accepted by the board, and in many senses is not 'fair'. I have been an employee and am also currently an MD so I know both sides.
Again, I don't want to sound harsh but this is effectively what you are asking. You want to have zero financial risk, you want the company to have total financial risk but you want to 'own' the idea and get an income. Unfortunately you will not get that working for a company.
It is good to have the opportunity to produce a project for the board. The best case scenario from this is that they like it, see the potential in you and promote or move you. Hell, maybe one day you might be on the board!
However, that is the best you can hope for. What you are wanting financially is to own the ideas and profits as if it were your own company. Of course however, the financial risks are then your own should it not pan out as planned...
MitchT said:
...What I want to ensure is that if this does take off and blossom into a highly profitable venture, that I don't go back to being an £18.5k a year wage-slave while the chairman gets rapidly richer off the back of something that I've thought of and driven to a point of being proven to be viable. I want some ownership so the powers-that-be can't simply take it off me and get even richer while I continue to spend my life wondering whether to eat or turn the central heating on this week...
In a nutshell it sounds like if you invest time into the project (paid for by the company) and this presentation is accepted an the board decide to risk their income or job running with it and it works, you want a cut of the extra profit? Yet if it doesnt work you go back to your original position without detriment?MitchT said:
Also, I'm so convinced by the potential that this has, that if I reach the end of the project and the company doesn't embrace it, but work carried out by myself and my team has proven it to be viable, I want it to be my property so I can drive it forward outside the boundary of my existing employer's jurisdiction.
So, in a nutshell, if the company has invested their money in the project in yours and your teams wages, and you have effectively been paid to come up with the idea, they should have zero ownership whilst you should have 100% ownership?Again, I don't want to sound harsh but this is effectively what you are asking. You want to have zero financial risk, you want the company to have total financial risk but you want to 'own' the idea and get an income. Unfortunately you will not get that working for a company.
It is good to have the opportunity to produce a project for the board. The best case scenario from this is that they like it, see the potential in you and promote or move you. Hell, maybe one day you might be on the board!
However, that is the best you can hope for. What you are wanting financially is to own the ideas and profits as if it were your own company. Of course however, the financial risks are then your own should it not pan out as planned...
Edited by JustinP1 on Friday 30th November 13:27
MitchT said:
ginettag27 said:
Check your Ts and Cs...
You mean my contract and my employment handbook? Nothing in there to suggest that I can't 'copyright' this idea as my own. More pressingly I have to ascertain exactly how to copyright it because I don't have long before I have to present the idea to be given the go-ahead as one of the projects.Also, if you come up with the idea whilst you are on the companies pay, put simply it actually belongs to them!
As I put in my longer post, the best you can get is the hope of recognition and promotion - which I am sure is the motive of the company in the first place.
JustinP1 - good points - I take them all on board.
Your input has made me consider my options further and given me a startling realisation! The idea is applicable both to my employer and other companies in the same overall field, but offering very different products, so maybe I should 'give' it away to my employer in the context of their product, and if it's a hit, start my own company offering it in the context of other companies' products. Everyone wins!
Your input has made me consider my options further and given me a startling realisation! The idea is applicable both to my employer and other companies in the same overall field, but offering very different products, so maybe I should 'give' it away to my employer in the context of their product, and if it's a hit, start my own company offering it in the context of other companies' products. Everyone wins!
Any idea to do with your companies business, could be seen as their intellectual property as they pay you and unless you can prove you didn't do any research or use their facilities to come with the idea its theirs.
You are paid by them and have been immersed in their business practices.
Been there, used to be a development manager for a software house, where the developers thought they owned the code they wrote in company time.
You are paid by them and have been immersed in their business practices.
Been there, used to be a development manager for a software house, where the developers thought they owned the code they wrote in company time.
JustinP1 said:
MitchT said:
ginettag27 said:
Check your Ts and Cs...
You mean my contract and my employment handbook? Nothing in there to suggest that I can't 'copyright' this idea as my own. More pressingly I have to ascertain exactly how to copyright it because I don't have long before I have to present the idea to be given the go-ahead as one of the projects.Also, if you come up with the idea whilst you are on the companies pay, put simply it actually belongs to them!
As I put in my longer post, the best you can get is the hope of recognition and promotion - which I am sure is the motive of the company in the first place.
Ideally you'll explain the idea in terms that don't lead them straight to the patent if they do a cursory check. The risk that they'll find your patent anyway is one that you'll have to take.
None of the above is likely to work if the patent relates to some technology which it'sself depends on technology which is the intellectual property of the company you work for...... I doubt you could patent the firmware you wrote for a mobile phone that your company developed for example.
The alternative in this particular scenario is to require the use of GNU GPL software, although even then you cannot force them to be open source in respect of their intellectual property, but it sure causes hell if you modify open source code, and they try to sell it as a part of their product.
Don't tell them anything until you have the patent, unless you don't mind them "owning" your idea. Maybe leave it until next year. A patent will take some time to organise. If necassary give them a bum steer this year, if the deadline is tight for the presentation.
Edited by dilbert on Friday 30th November 15:51
MitchT said:
JustinP1 - good points - I take them all on board.
Your input has made me consider my options further and given me a startling realisation! The idea is applicable both to my employer and other companies in the same overall field, but offering very different products, so maybe I should 'give' it away to my employer in the context of their product, and if it's a hit, start my own company offering it in the context of other companies' products. Everyone wins!
As casbar has mentioned, you may even be stuck with that too.Your input has made me consider my options further and given me a startling realisation! The idea is applicable both to my employer and other companies in the same overall field, but offering very different products, so maybe I should 'give' it away to my employer in the context of their product, and if it's a hit, start my own company offering it in the context of other companies' products. Everyone wins!
Look at it this way. Medical scientist Joe Bloggs has spent the last 15 years of his companies time researching a cure for the common cold. He can't just jump ship with the info and get a new higher paid job with the formula.
If your new working practice/product really is that revolutionary, is it something you could start yourself, or with some backing?
A possible way round would be the following. Find a company/consultancy/whatever you trust (ideally this party has some experience of the business area you work in) . Sign an NDA. Tell them your idea. Decide on a strategy to market this idea back to the company you work for (I am persuming the idea you have can be commercialised). You have an 'arrangement' with this party to recieve a percentage of what ever commercial arrangement is put in place between the parry and your employers.
An awful lot of 'ifs and 'but' and also an assumption that the idea you have would work with above scenario.
Risky - a little, but hey...he who dares and all that!
An awful lot of 'ifs and 'but' and also an assumption that the idea you have would work with above scenario.
Risky - a little, but hey...he who dares and all that!
Hey Mitchell,
How you doing?
Mention it to your employer and you've lost your IP rights, you probably don't have the IP anyhow as one would imagine you either came up with the idea on company time or because of what you were involved in, within company time - pretty standard T&Cs.
I don't want to p*ss on your parade but whatever the idea is, it probably won't work - this is through experience; have 100 ideas, 2 seem like going with, choose one, b*gger didn't work; choose the other one - b*gger, someone just did it etc., etc.
Roll through this process for about a decade and then you'll have 1,000 ideas and a fair guess of which one might work with the resource you have to hand - family/friends/current staff/expertise etc.
Angels and VC's have closed the door recently after the sub-prime credit crunch, so don't look for any cash there.
It's good to be excited (never lose it) but, either give it to your employer and take whatever benefit you can or wait and watch someone else do it.
Alternatively, run it past me and I'll either point you in the right direction or finance it.
Launched www.wizemobile.co.uk 30 days ago and generated £400k since (after a decade of bad ideas).
All the best either way,
Donny
don.macinnes [at] wizemobile [dot] co [dot] uk
How you doing?
Mention it to your employer and you've lost your IP rights, you probably don't have the IP anyhow as one would imagine you either came up with the idea on company time or because of what you were involved in, within company time - pretty standard T&Cs.
I don't want to p*ss on your parade but whatever the idea is, it probably won't work - this is through experience; have 100 ideas, 2 seem like going with, choose one, b*gger didn't work; choose the other one - b*gger, someone just did it etc., etc.
Roll through this process for about a decade and then you'll have 1,000 ideas and a fair guess of which one might work with the resource you have to hand - family/friends/current staff/expertise etc.
Angels and VC's have closed the door recently after the sub-prime credit crunch, so don't look for any cash there.
It's good to be excited (never lose it) but, either give it to your employer and take whatever benefit you can or wait and watch someone else do it.
Alternatively, run it past me and I'll either point you in the right direction or finance it.
Launched www.wizemobile.co.uk 30 days ago and generated £400k since (after a decade of bad ideas).
All the best either way,
Donny
don.macinnes [at] wizemobile [dot] co [dot] uk
As a general rule of thumb: If your contract doesn't have a clause which says intellectual property you generate at work belongs to the company, then it belongs to you. We have a clause in the contract for all of our staff, as they are often developing software/tools for our business, which we want to own for obvious reasons!
So first thing to do is have a really good look through your contract. If there's nothing mentioned, then you can consider patenting your idea. This protects your idea from being copied for 20 years, and will probably cost you at least £5k to do your major markets. (Europe, US, Canada, Far East, etc)
Before you speak to a patent lawyer, you can use online patent searches to see if someone has already registered the idea.
So first thing to do is have a really good look through your contract. If there's nothing mentioned, then you can consider patenting your idea. This protects your idea from being copied for 20 years, and will probably cost you at least £5k to do your major markets. (Europe, US, Canada, Far East, etc)
Before you speak to a patent lawyer, you can use online patent searches to see if someone has already registered the idea.
You will have trouble patenting a business idea in Europe as inventions for methods of doing business are expressly excluded from patentability. You may have more luck in the US if the invention really is just an 'idea'. If there is a technical infra-structure that must be in place to exploit the idea, for example a terminal in each store linked to a central database (like the national lottery) then that technical structure, if new, could be protected by a patent which could prevent others using a similar technique. You would need to speak to a patent attorney (such discussions being confidential) and they could provide advice regarding whether or not there is anything there that is protectable.
The "send it to yourself and don't open the letter" only applies to Copyright and being able to prove a date of creation of the work, but would not help to prevent a third party from exploiting the idea as copyright only protects the recorded expression of an idea - not the idea itself.
As people above have pointed out, the ownership issue needs to be addressed. If you are employed to come up with ideas, or such creation could be expected as part of your job then the employer probably owns the invention. If you were a cleaner in a mobile phone engineering company who, while on duty, came up with an idea for a new cleaner burning V8 engine design, then the employer would not really have any claim on the invention. More facts are needed as is the wording of your contract - again, a patent attorney should be able to advise.
Keep the idea confidential until you have decided whether to file a patent as any non-confidential disclosure will prevent you obtaining a valid patent.
Alex
The "send it to yourself and don't open the letter" only applies to Copyright and being able to prove a date of creation of the work, but would not help to prevent a third party from exploiting the idea as copyright only protects the recorded expression of an idea - not the idea itself.
As people above have pointed out, the ownership issue needs to be addressed. If you are employed to come up with ideas, or such creation could be expected as part of your job then the employer probably owns the invention. If you were a cleaner in a mobile phone engineering company who, while on duty, came up with an idea for a new cleaner burning V8 engine design, then the employer would not really have any claim on the invention. More facts are needed as is the wording of your contract - again, a patent attorney should be able to advise.
Keep the idea confidential until you have decided whether to file a patent as any non-confidential disclosure will prevent you obtaining a valid patent.
Alex
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff