Any Employment Law specialists?
Discussion
If you decide to go now, you probably won't need any costly legal advice. So, they are offering two months payment (taxed presumably) to go now. If you're on, say, £50K, that means about £4K cash in your pocket (rough figures obviously!). If you decide to decline their kind offer, and they begin the formal redundancy process immediately, it'll be one month consultation, plus one month notice. Two months total. So, the only difference is that by going now you'll get two months holiday; Cling on and you'll get at least two months work, depending how long it takes them to initiate the Consultation process. The likelihood is also that, if they REALLY want you out, they'll offer a lot better settlement when you reject this current offer. I'd definitely stay and enjoy the ride - you might actually find out a bit more as to why this is happening to you. Keep us informed!
tobeee said:
If you decide to go now, you probably won't need any costly legal advice. So, they are offering two months payment (taxed presumably) to go now. If you're on, say, £50K, that means about £4K cash in your pocket (rough figures obviously!). If you decide to decline their kind offer, and they begin the formal redundancy process immediately, it'll be one month consultation, plus one month notice. Two months total. So, the only difference is that by going now you'll get two months holiday; Cling on and you'll get at least two months work, depending how long it takes them to initiate the Consultation process. The likelihood is also that, if they REALLY want you out, they'll offer a lot better settlement when you reject this current offer. I'd definitely stay and enjoy the ride - you might actually find out a bit more as to why this is happening to you. Keep us informed!
Sadly, i'm not on £50k 
If i stay for the full consultaion/notice period, i'd lose out on a months salary, due to the fact that i still have my full notice to serve, whereas if i stayed i would have consulation period + notice period, only adding an extra month. They haven't issued a formal redundancy offer yet, it's all been "informal" chats.
My plan today is have a word with the director, basically stating having spoken to various sources/legal advisors, it seems the company wishes to end the development programme i'm on early, resulting in my termination from employment and is not a redundancy. If this is the case, can we discuss the reasons behind this (performance, attitude), and then come to some sort of compromise.
If not, i'll just have to go through the consultation period and walk away with nothing
tobeee said:
If you decide to go now, you probably won't need any costly legal advice. So, they are offering two months payment (taxed presumably) to go now.
A redundancy payment is tax free (up to a maximum of £30,000).2 months money is therefore worth 3 months to you.
Personally I would take the money and look for another job.
Take both your points. I'm no expert, and the salary was just an example.
However, why not just start looking for another job now (I certainly WOULD recommend that) and just let them keep on talking. Job hunting might take longer than you think, and it's always better to be doing it whilst in employment. As they haven't even started the Consultation, nothing has actually changed in your employment, so you are free to behave as if this never happened (though now is the time to work really hard so that they have nothing against you). I would make notes on all related conversations so far, and from now on, as a slight variation from the formal redundancy process could land them in hot water (potential constructive dismissal claim) and by the sounds of it, they're heading for the kettle now! If, however, you are happy to settle and leave now, negotiate VERY hard! Their current settlement figure is by no means their highest! Good luck.
However, why not just start looking for another job now (I certainly WOULD recommend that) and just let them keep on talking. Job hunting might take longer than you think, and it's always better to be doing it whilst in employment. As they haven't even started the Consultation, nothing has actually changed in your employment, so you are free to behave as if this never happened (though now is the time to work really hard so that they have nothing against you). I would make notes on all related conversations so far, and from now on, as a slight variation from the formal redundancy process could land them in hot water (potential constructive dismissal claim) and by the sounds of it, they're heading for the kettle now! If, however, you are happy to settle and leave now, negotiate VERY hard! Their current settlement figure is by no means their highest! Good luck.
The tax point presumably depends on whether the payment is actually a redundancy payment or just a backhander to get the OP out the door?
Can it be a redundancy payment for tax purposes if it's a one off person going under a compromise agreement?
Worth checking with an employment lawyer, I have a recollection that in this situation it is not tax free.
Can it be a redundancy payment for tax purposes if it's a one off person going under a compromise agreement?
Worth checking with an employment lawyer, I have a recollection that in this situation it is not tax free.
Employers do make mistakes. My previous employer (a NDPB charged with protecting employees rights 
) breached mine and all other employees employment contracts. The Major General in charge (and the other Directors) did not accept that (although following action, he has since had to apologise, and all salaries subsequently adjusted). There were only 4 'senior' people in that organisation but I genuinely do not think they communicated correctly. I know they failed to understand employment legislation. If this can happen in Govt, it can happen anywhere. Therefore, your HR Director may not be (fully) in the loop with this one.
Obviously, I wouldn't have a clue about your organisation but you could request a meeting with the HR Director to discuss options. That would put him in the picture if he didn't know, or would confirm to you that he did.
The 'take the money' option actually sounds good to me at this point. I would suggest you take someone with you to any meetings, partly as a simple witness, partly to try and give you an impartial view afterwards.
Be careful, and good luck.
) breached mine and all other employees employment contracts. The Major General in charge (and the other Directors) did not accept that (although following action, he has since had to apologise, and all salaries subsequently adjusted). There were only 4 'senior' people in that organisation but I genuinely do not think they communicated correctly. I know they failed to understand employment legislation. If this can happen in Govt, it can happen anywhere. Therefore, your HR Director may not be (fully) in the loop with this one.Obviously, I wouldn't have a clue about your organisation but you could request a meeting with the HR Director to discuss options. That would put him in the picture if he didn't know, or would confirm to you that he did.
The 'take the money' option actually sounds good to me at this point. I would suggest you take someone with you to any meetings, partly as a simple witness, partly to try and give you an impartial view afterwards.
Be careful, and good luck.
Well, i had a brief chat with the HR manager to try and get a clearer picture of what is going on, and express my desire to formalise the process from "informal" to getting it all in writing.
Needless to say i wasn't all that surprised when i was told that she didn't actually know what i had been told up to that point, and was unsure of how to procced as she basically didn't have a clue (i was told that HR were aware of the "informal discussions going on with me).
I've now spoken to a solicitor, who has advised me to sit tight and keep my mouth shut until the company comes back to me with some sort of formal offer because until then they are on very shakey ground. I don't want to go down the route of a court case against the company, as i would have to be 100% sure i could win. However, my solicitor is happy to go through everything with me, and once he has a clear understanding of the circumstances and what the comapny is offering and their actions to date, he can then decide of court action is a suitable route to follow.
Cheers for the advice from everybody, much obliged
Needless to say i wasn't all that surprised when i was told that she didn't actually know what i had been told up to that point, and was unsure of how to procced as she basically didn't have a clue (i was told that HR were aware of the "informal discussions going on with me).
I've now spoken to a solicitor, who has advised me to sit tight and keep my mouth shut until the company comes back to me with some sort of formal offer because until then they are on very shakey ground. I don't want to go down the route of a court case against the company, as i would have to be 100% sure i could win. However, my solicitor is happy to go through everything with me, and once he has a clear understanding of the circumstances and what the comapny is offering and their actions to date, he can then decide of court action is a suitable route to follow.
Cheers for the advice from everybody, much obliged
D_T_W said:
...advised me to sit tight and keep my mouth shut until the company comes back to me with some sort of formal offer...
That sums up my previous comments! They have been on shaky ground since the moment they first raised the issue with you. You won't need your day in court because as soon as they take advice and realise they've cocked up, they'll be offering settlement beyond what was on offer earlier. As I said before, enjoy the ride! 
Well, i've finally got the compromise agreement. Still to get my lawyer to look over it, but from the advice i had so far it appears to be the best offer i'm going to get. Downside is if i sign it, i'm out of a job next week, as despite them saying they would honour my notice period, the agreement cancels that out.
Oh. Bugger.
Oh. Bugger.
D_T_W said:
Well, i've finally got the compromise agreement. Still to get my lawyer to look over it, but from the advice i had so far it appears to be the best offer i'm going to get. Downside is if i sign it, i'm out of a job next week, as despite them saying they would honour my notice period, the agreement cancels that out.
Oh. Bugger.
Good luck finding a new job....that isn't supposed to sound sarcastic but it does Oh. Bugger.
D_T_W said:
Downside is if i sign it, i'm out of a job next week, as despite them saying they would honour my notice period, the agreement cancels that out.
Oh. Bugger.
Am I reading this right? You have been offered a compromise agreement and thought that you would be working your notice period? If you read my original response its because your firm wants rid. Oh. Bugger.
Nothing to do with whether it's your fault or theirs, they just want you gone. That *always* means that with a compromise agreement you leave. No notice period, no farewell party, no gold watch. You leave. End of.
However. What should be in your compromise agreement is details of how much they are paying you in lieu of your notice period, on top of any other financial incentives. They can't side-step this.
Ensure your lawyer is an appropriately qualified HR bod. Its a minefield out there. (Wifey is Chartered MCIPD qualified - google it for details)
apguy said:
D_T_W said:
Downside is if i sign it, i'm out of a job next week, as despite them saying they would honour my notice period, the agreement cancels that out.
Oh. Bugger.
Am I reading this right? You have been offered a compromise agreement and thought that you would be working your notice period? If you read my original response its because your firm wants rid. Oh. Bugger.
Nothing to do with whether it's your fault or theirs, they just want you gone. That *always* means that with a compromise agreement you leave. No notice period, no farewell party, no gold watch. You leave. End of.
However. What should be in your compromise agreement is details of how much they are paying you in lieu of your notice period, on top of any other financial incentives. They can't side-step this.
Ensure your lawyer is an appropriately qualified HR bod. Its a minefield out there. (Wifey is Chartered MCIPD qualified - google it for details)
soprano said:
forgive me - but why would a lawyer need to have any HR qualifications?
Its a reasonable question. And I guess "qualified" is the wrong term, but what I was getting at is; just as there are lawyers who specialise in contract law, criminal law etc there are specialist lawyers for employment law. apguy said:
soprano said:
forgive me - but why would a lawyer need to have any HR qualifications?
Its a reasonable question. And I guess "qualified" is the wrong term, but what I was getting at is; just as there are lawyers who specialise in contract law, criminal law etc there are specialist lawyers for employment law. would be like getting a lawnmower mechanic to work on your car otherwise!
apguy said:
D_T_W said:
Downside is if i sign it, i'm out of a job next week, as despite them saying they would honour my notice period, the agreement cancels that out.
Oh. Bugger.
Am I reading this right? You have been offered a compromise agreement and thought that you would be working your notice period? If you read my original response its because your firm wants rid. Oh. Bugger.
Nothing to do with whether it's your fault or theirs, they just want you gone. That *always* means that with a compromise agreement you leave. No notice period, no farewell party, no gold watch. You leave. End of.
However. What should be in your compromise agreement is details of how much they are paying you in lieu of your notice period, on top of any other financial incentives. They can't side-step this.
Ensure your lawyer is an appropriately qualified HR bod. Its a minefield out there. (Wifey is Chartered MCIPD qualified - google it for details)
Hope that clears that up.
My lawyer is not a specialist in employment law, however the firm he works for does so any decisions or review that need to be done are passed through them.
D_T_W said:
Yes you're reading it right. I asked during initial discussions if the company was willing to honour my notice period, to which they replied yes. As yet, i have only been offered the redundancy payment, with no payment in lieu of notice. The original discussion with the MD was that i would work my notice period if i signed the compromise agreement.
Hope that clears that up.
Thanks for the clarification. In which case I would be reverting back to your professional adviser and asking what the heck they are doing. Whilst a compromise agreement can have pretty much what you like it in (because you have promised not to take legal action against the company in exchange for money/benefits etc) you don't want it to ignore your basic employment contract. Hope that clears that up.
If your contract says 1 months notice, then you want 1 months pay in lieu of notice in that compromise agreement. Even if they argue, you have a legal minimum of 1 weeks notice period. (statutory minimum notice period)
In this whole scenario it sounds like your firm is being very cack-handed about the matter.
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