investment guide, >50K

[Mactac]

Nationwide can only best offer 5.8% just now, and won't feature on that site.
Thanks for link though

[okgo]

g4ry13 said:

okgo said:

After reading both thread I am seriously considering it..

If its maybe as easy as said.. contact a broker he sources a case ect.. then why dont lots of people do it? Or lots "more" people do it?

For a start there's the costs - in order for it to be worthwhile you need to easily lay out 4 figures or more to get started and make it worth your while. It's much cheaper to get started on the stock market and still see returns.

Then some people don't like the idea that you may have to wait years and years to see a good return, whereas there are other investment opportunities that can see returns within days to weeks.

Lastly, I guess it's just not something people know much about or as widely publicised as the stock market and some people may not feel comfortable spending £10,000 on a crate of wine because a broker says they should.

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

[ATG]

okgo said:

g4ry13 said:

okgo said:

After reading both thread I am seriously considering it..

If its maybe as easy as said.. contact a broker he sources a case ect.. then why dont lots of people do it? Or lots "more" people do it?

For a start there's the costs - in order for it to be worthwhile you need to easily lay out 4 figures or more to get started and make it worth your while. It's much cheaper to get started on the stock market and still see returns.

Then some people don't like the idea that you may have to wait years and years to see a good return, whereas there are other investment opportunities that can see returns within days to weeks.

Lastly, I guess it's just not something people know much about or as widely publicised as the stock market and some people may not feel comfortable spending £10,000 on a crate of wine because a broker says they should.

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

Why would someone sell you wine at a huge discount to its "guaranteed" future value? Doesn't sound at all likely to me.

[g4ry13]

okgo said:

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

There's far more accessible information around than wine. You only have to turn on the TV, open a paper and there's plenty of magazines on the topic too that will willingly point you in the direction.

Yes, one good tip can put you on to a winning wine - but also a bad tip can lose you money if the wine goes out of fashion or you buy some wine where the label has fallen off or not everything is at seems or other circumstances. The same with share tipsters - there are some good ones and there are bad ones.

Wine I imagine is generally safer than the stock market due to the finite nature of it and the basic laws of supply and demand. But it's all down to whether locking up that amount of capital for that time period is something one is willing to consider.

[okgo]

ATG said:

okgo said:

g4ry13 said:

okgo said:

After reading both thread I am seriously considering it..

If its maybe as easy as said.. contact a broker he sources a case ect.. then why dont lots of people do it? Or lots "more" people do it?

For a start there's the costs - in order for it to be worthwhile you need to easily lay out 4 figures or more to get started and make it worth your while. It's much cheaper to get started on the stock market and still see returns.

Then some people don't like the idea that you may have to wait years and years to see a good return, whereas there are other investment opportunities that can see returns within days to weeks.

Lastly, I guess it's just not something people know much about or as widely publicised as the stock market and some people may not feel comfortable spending £10,000 on a crate of wine because a broker says they should.

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

Why would someone sell you wine at a huge discount to its "guaranteed" future value? Doesn't sound at all likely to me.

I dont know..

From what I have read it seems that wine doesnt decrease in value.. some go up VERY quickly others go up slwoer but still go up..

I am sure as a wine broker bibs on the other thread knows his stuff and probably does a bit himself to make some money.. and he obviously does something right as he has a ferrari

[g4ry13]

I remember another thing about wine....the commission costs can screw you over. Selling the stuff some brokers take as much as 20% - this will vary between brokers but this is where they make their money.

As for why someone would sell you wine that may be worth 4 times the price in 10 years...why not? They're not putting up the capital for 10 years and if you come back to them they get more business - not to mention they take a cut on the buying and selling of the wine.

[Mactac]

So from their point of view,

Customers help them with stock levels, they collect rent on this bonded stock,
And then collect outrageous percentage on despatch

[Mr Beaumont]

I bought my case from Berry Bros and Rudd. They will offer to buy your wine back. Apparently according to the manager of their shop on St James' street, it is a very good time for investing in wine at the moment, due to a decrease in tax in the far east, which is where a lot of the really expensive wine ends up.

[shadowninja]

Wine vs shares.

Well, if the shares are worth nothing, you might have a few scraps of paper you can burn to keep you warm. If the wine becomes worthless... well...

[Andrew[MG]]

g4ry13 said:

okgo said:

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

There's far more accessible information around than wine. You only have to turn on the TV, open a paper and there's plenty of magazines on the topic too that will willingly point you in the direction.

Yes, one good tip can put you on to a winning wine - but also a bad tip can lose you money if the wine goes out of fashion or you buy some wine where the label has fallen off or not everything is at seems or other circumstances. The same with share tipsters - there are some good ones and there are bad ones.

Wine I imagine is generally safer than the stock market due to the finite nature of it and the basic laws of supply and demand. But it's all down to whether locking up that amount of capital for that time period is something one is willing to consider.

Wine, as an asset, does not create any wealth. Comparing this to buying shares in a company is like comparing chalk and cheese.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that wine is a safer investment than the stock market. If you base your investment decisions on tips, rather than research, then your chances of success are extremely limited. If you happen to know the Warren Buffet of then wine world then fair enough - take his advice. If however, you are getting the tips from magazines I would suggest that you will be taken for a mug. People with the best knowledge of the market will invest for themselves. Newspaper hacks just print any old crap to fill column inches and this has been proven time and time again.

I think you will find that if you want to research companies to invest in then there is far more information on them than there is about a particular wine!! You can read about the people who run the company, their plans for the future, new products, past performance and the state of their finances. This information is easily available for any company trading on the stock market.

Wine, like antiques and art, will fall in and out of fashion. I bet Damien Hirst paintings aren't worth as much in 10 years time.....

[Deva Link]

g4ry13 said:

okgo said:

I for one would not havea clue where to go on the stock market to make money right away..

But surley all it takes with this wine is the intial advice to buy the right vintage/brand ect and then its on the up..

Not like a share that coudl fk you overnight..

There's far more accessible information around than wine. You only have to turn on the TV, open a paper and there's plenty of magazines on the topic too that will willingly point you in the direction.

Yes, one good tip can put you on to a winning wine - but also a bad tip can lose you money if the wine goes out of fashion or you buy some wine where the label has fallen off or not everything is at seems or other circumstances. The same with share tipsters - there are some good ones and there are bad ones.

Wine I imagine is generally safer than the stock market due to the finite nature of it and the basic laws of supply and demand. But it's all down to whether locking up that amount of capital for that time period is something one is willing to consider.

If you're worried about being fked overnight, or want something that has finite supply, then surely gold (or platinum etc) would be an altogether more reliable bet?

[g4ry13]

Deva Link said:

If you're worried about being fked overnight, or want something that has finite supply, then surely gold (or platinum etc) would be an altogether more reliable bet?

You'd think so...but no. It depends how long you're willing to hold for. If you look at the gold price a year ago and today you'll see how much it has increased and some may feel the price is topping out. Not to mention that the price of Gold was over $1000 a few weeks ago and now it's skirting around at the $900 level again.

If you're thinking of commodities, may as well go for Oil. That's finite, everyone uses it and there's always political tensions that can help escalate the price. It's just one of many investment opportunities.

[g4ry13]

Andrew[MG] said:

Wine, as an asset, does not create any wealth. Comparing this to buying shares in a company is like comparing chalk and cheese.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that wine is a safer investment than the stock market. If you base your investment decisions on tips, rather than research, then your chances of success are extremely limited. If you happen to know the Warren Buffet of then wine world then fair enough - take his advice. If however, you are getting the tips from magazines I would suggest that you will be taken for a mug. People with the best knowledge of the market will invest for themselves. Newspaper hacks just print any old crap to fill column inches and this has been proven time and time again.

I think you will find that if you want to research companies to invest in then there is far more information on them than there is about a particular wine!! You can read about the people who run the company, their plans for the future, new products, past performance and the state of their finances. This information is easily available for any company trading on the stock market.

Wine, like antiques and art, will fall in and out of fashion. I bet Damien Hirst paintings aren't worth as much in 10 years time.....

Not really, as you may gather investors buy things to make money at a later date (usually!) So buying wine to sell it in 10 years and make a profit and buying shares with the intention to sell at a later date for a profit both have the same outcomes. So not exactly chalk and cheese. Shares may have some greater good such as helping the companies and so on - but the obvious real reason is the potential to increase one's own capital.

I'm not advocating following newspaper tips at all - it would be foolish to. Just demonstrating the accessibility of information and how just because a broker can get it right one time, so can a tipster. The finite nature of wine does mean though that naturally price will move upward as stocks diminish. The same does not hold true for stocks as they are not "consumed" as such and can always be re-circulated from holder to holder.

As you mentioned at a later point about the accessibility of information, i'm not disagreeing with you at all as I think I mentioned this in a previous post about why wine investing is not so common.

People will always drink wine, the markets in the east are emerging and although their may be some troubled economic times; there will always be some people profiting out of it and there will always be a demographic that are willing to spend in excess of £1000 for a bottle of red to go with their filet mignon and so on. The only issue is the variable of fashion which may cause a wine to diminish or any damage to the bottle and its contents.

[clubsport]

You state you are not concerned about immedate access to the money, the first question to ask for any investment, "what is you attitude to risk"....then you can consider where you may invest

[Mactac]

Not being made of money, I'm inclined towards safety,
(Which might amuse you Paul, given my Porsche antics last Year)
What would you define risky, out of interest, I'd be interested to know