Leaving a big 4 firm?
Discussion
Chaps,
I read this forum daily and try and contribute when I can. My thoughts are that by the topics that are posted here this is a better place to post than in "jobs". I am hoping people who may have been in a similar position may be able to give their thoughts before I make my decision.
Background.
I have been working in the tax side of a big 4 firm since I left uni in 2001. It’s the only "proper" job I have had. I initially started working in personal tax before moving on to employment taxes and more specifically share schemes. Due to people leaving and them being unable to replace said people I have been the only person working on the share schemes for the last 18 months. I do get support however this is by telephone/ e-mail or through me having to go to other offices. It has been indicated informally that the only way for me to advance further than a potential promotion to manager come January is to transfer permanently to another office or work 3 days per week in other offices. The permanent transfer is not an option as my girlfriend and I are extremely settled where we live and I'd rather not spend 3+ hours a day commuting.
Current situation.
I was approached via an agency to interview with a company involved with, primarily, business and tax valuations advice but who also provide tax advice and tax planning around selling the family business and structuring the shareholding of the business to take advantage of IHT/ CGT reliefs upon retirement i.e. succession planning. I went along and found that full time technical staff in the company were two directors (despite looking much larger on its website and general discussion of the company via google). One of these directors is in his 60's and looking to retire in two years and the other is in his late 40's, therefore they appreciate that they need to look to the future to ensure longevity of the business. There is an additional upside in that the company is based 10mins down the road from where I am, compared with the current daily 45mins each way commute!
To cut a long story short I had a couple of interviews with the Company and have been offered a role with them.
The main financial benefits are:
£2k salary increase now (with further review in Dec/ Jan).
I also calculate savings of wear and tear on my car along with petrol at around £5k gross per anumm.
Following a probation period the new co will offer a 13% employer pension contribution. I currently receive a 4% Employer contribution if I make a 4% Employee contribution.
My thoughts are that a promotion with current employer would lead to a £8-10k increase in Dec/Jan.
Help/ Thoughts
Has anyone here recently left a big 4 employer to move to a smaller organisation?
If so how are they finding it and do they have any regrets?
From the info above what are people’s thoughts? I know it’s ultimately down to me to make the decision but could do with some guidance!!!
Cheers guys any responses gratefully received
I read this forum daily and try and contribute when I can. My thoughts are that by the topics that are posted here this is a better place to post than in "jobs". I am hoping people who may have been in a similar position may be able to give their thoughts before I make my decision.
Background.
I have been working in the tax side of a big 4 firm since I left uni in 2001. It’s the only "proper" job I have had. I initially started working in personal tax before moving on to employment taxes and more specifically share schemes. Due to people leaving and them being unable to replace said people I have been the only person working on the share schemes for the last 18 months. I do get support however this is by telephone/ e-mail or through me having to go to other offices. It has been indicated informally that the only way for me to advance further than a potential promotion to manager come January is to transfer permanently to another office or work 3 days per week in other offices. The permanent transfer is not an option as my girlfriend and I are extremely settled where we live and I'd rather not spend 3+ hours a day commuting.
Current situation.
I was approached via an agency to interview with a company involved with, primarily, business and tax valuations advice but who also provide tax advice and tax planning around selling the family business and structuring the shareholding of the business to take advantage of IHT/ CGT reliefs upon retirement i.e. succession planning. I went along and found that full time technical staff in the company were two directors (despite looking much larger on its website and general discussion of the company via google). One of these directors is in his 60's and looking to retire in two years and the other is in his late 40's, therefore they appreciate that they need to look to the future to ensure longevity of the business. There is an additional upside in that the company is based 10mins down the road from where I am, compared with the current daily 45mins each way commute!
To cut a long story short I had a couple of interviews with the Company and have been offered a role with them.
The main financial benefits are:
£2k salary increase now (with further review in Dec/ Jan).
I also calculate savings of wear and tear on my car along with petrol at around £5k gross per anumm.
Following a probation period the new co will offer a 13% employer pension contribution. I currently receive a 4% Employer contribution if I make a 4% Employee contribution.
My thoughts are that a promotion with current employer would lead to a £8-10k increase in Dec/Jan.
Help/ Thoughts
Has anyone here recently left a big 4 employer to move to a smaller organisation?
If so how are they finding it and do they have any regrets?
From the info above what are people’s thoughts? I know it’s ultimately down to me to make the decision but could do with some guidance!!!
Cheers guys any responses gratefully received
"Has anyone here recently left a big 4 employer to move to a smaller organisation?"
no regrets at all - did 5 years for one, got promoted 3x whilst there, had many cool projects I wouldnt have the experience of elsewhere, however after 5 years got "stuck" and realistically I was £10-15K underpaid in my role there compared to new entrants (seems to always happen when they promote from within)
got offered a job with an international company of 180 instead of 70,000, was nervous at first - the UK team seemed small (7) the lack of infrastructure etc. Went for a £15K payrise back then...was the primary motivator as well as a different career path.
5 years later - have never looked back, been promoted twice in new company (now Director), the new firm was much more of a team spirited place, although now 500+, as I was in when smaller, seem to know everyone and Im well thought of of. Pay wise has been great too, have now doubled starting salary,good bonuses and options/stock purchase.
So for me it worked out great - the way to look at the big 4 jobs - theres always people coming and going - Ive never seen anyone leave, go away for a year, and then come back, and not end up with a better job in the process, so I didnt think I had anything to lose anyway, by at least trying the other job.
Id want more than £2K to move though....jeez, that wouldnt cover the hassle
£5K at least !
no regrets at all - did 5 years for one, got promoted 3x whilst there, had many cool projects I wouldnt have the experience of elsewhere, however after 5 years got "stuck" and realistically I was £10-15K underpaid in my role there compared to new entrants (seems to always happen when they promote from within)
got offered a job with an international company of 180 instead of 70,000, was nervous at first - the UK team seemed small (7) the lack of infrastructure etc. Went for a £15K payrise back then...was the primary motivator as well as a different career path.
5 years later - have never looked back, been promoted twice in new company (now Director), the new firm was much more of a team spirited place, although now 500+, as I was in when smaller, seem to know everyone and Im well thought of of. Pay wise has been great too, have now doubled starting salary,good bonuses and options/stock purchase.
So for me it worked out great - the way to look at the big 4 jobs - theres always people coming and going - Ive never seen anyone leave, go away for a year, and then come back, and not end up with a better job in the process, so I didnt think I had anything to lose anyway, by at least trying the other job.
Id want more than £2K to move though....jeez, that wouldnt cover the hassle
£5K at least !I left PwC a couple of years ago, went to a small consultancy for a year and then set up a company.
Rich is spot on with don't leave for the money, there needs to be more than that.
Depending on your role, the next jump either to Manager or SM will be worth at least that £10k and then some. If you work for KPMG then it's almost salary review time & pressure can be applied...
If the role is more interesting then that's a great opportunity to move, especially if you want hands on experience doing a wider range of stuff that generally happens in a small business. What you will be losing potentially is some security (i.e. your fee earning is now more important), perceived prestige (a big4 name opens a lots of doors - rightly or wrongly) also the networking ability.
Good luck!
Rich is spot on with don't leave for the money, there needs to be more than that.
Depending on your role, the next jump either to Manager or SM will be worth at least that £10k and then some. If you work for KPMG then it's almost salary review time & pressure can be applied...
If the role is more interesting then that's a great opportunity to move, especially if you want hands on experience doing a wider range of stuff that generally happens in a small business. What you will be losing potentially is some security (i.e. your fee earning is now more important), perceived prestige (a big4 name opens a lots of doors - rightly or wrongly) also the networking ability.
Good luck!
Working for too long in a big company can lead to becoming “institutionalised”. By that, I mean that you will have a very good network of support – people to order bikes, someone to make the coffee, typing, etc. More than likely you’ll get good training and have people in the organisation to mentor you. Personal issues are also better handled in big companies and risk is less. Although the opportunities are greater, in reality, it can take a long time to get to a role that you know you’d be great at doing now.
Bottom line for big companies is the comfort factor, which for some, is more important than wealth.
Smaller companies lack that comfort zone and have little or no support structures for its employees. The upside here is that you are more in control of your own destiny. If you are very good at your job and make a real difference to the business, then that will be reflected in what you earn and may even lead to owning a part of the business.
Put it like this…
In a big company, even if you are outstanding and the best at what you do, the impact on the whole is limited as the business is already big so the reward is always going to be proportionally less. You need them more than they need you.
In a small company, if you excel and contribute greatly to the growth of the business, the rewards are going to be proportionally higher. They need you more than you need them.
It all comes down to you propensity to risk. As you are still young, much of that risk is mitigated. As you get older and have greater personal responsibilities, it becomes trickier to take those risk, hence you become more and more institutionalised. So, make the jump now and find out you don’t like it, you’ve not lost much but learned a lot. Do it later, and things become more awkward.
Bottom line for big companies is the comfort factor, which for some, is more important than wealth.
Smaller companies lack that comfort zone and have little or no support structures for its employees. The upside here is that you are more in control of your own destiny. If you are very good at your job and make a real difference to the business, then that will be reflected in what you earn and may even lead to owning a part of the business.
Put it like this…
In a big company, even if you are outstanding and the best at what you do, the impact on the whole is limited as the business is already big so the reward is always going to be proportionally less. You need them more than they need you.
In a small company, if you excel and contribute greatly to the growth of the business, the rewards are going to be proportionally higher. They need you more than you need them.
It all comes down to you propensity to risk. As you are still young, much of that risk is mitigated. As you get older and have greater personal responsibilities, it becomes trickier to take those risk, hence you become more and more institutionalised. So, make the jump now and find out you don’t like it, you’ve not lost much but learned a lot. Do it later, and things become more awkward.
I worked for KPMG in Tax for a few years and found myself in a very similar situation to yourself. I agree with StevieBee that if you are good at what you do then you will find greater rewards at smaller companies. However, if your only considering moving to a smaller co for c £2k then I wouldn't bother as you'll lose more than that in 'comfort factor'.
I chose to leave and change industries - now a Financial Adviser - and I can honestly say it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I still have many friends in all Big 4 firms and when they tell me how their jobs (and prospects/promotion) are going I don't envy them one bit!!
I chose to leave and change industries - now a Financial Adviser - and I can honestly say it was one of the best decisions I ever made. I still have many friends in all Big 4 firms and when they tell me how their jobs (and prospects/promotion) are going I don't envy them one bit!!
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