Discussion
jimmyjimjim said:
So, can anyone recommend a supplier of 18650 and 26650 cells in the US - or can recommend specific versions of said product on amazon.com?
I suspect I'll get myself a VC4 charger from amazon shortly, as they're only $22.
Mountain Electronics are well regarded in the US I gather.I suspect I'll get myself a VC4 charger from amazon shortly, as they're only $22.
_dobbo_ said:
wseed said:
I suspect they're getting at that a 3 x AA (1.5v each) torch would be running pretty much the same 3.5v vs 3.7v of a single 18650 cell.
Actually it would be running at 4.5 volts which is why it's interesting that a 3.7 volt cell would be better. Presumably because it can supply more amps.
I clearly need a half finger to help with such complex calculations.defblade said:
FiF said:
Assuming they are in series.
But then what about 2x1.5v, or 4x1.5v and so on. If you have several different bits of kit, all with different setups it needs detailed knowledge of the torch design and electronics to know whether it's advisable or not to start buggering around with power sources.
I'm just asking the question, as a non geek, because it seems risky to me.
The ones that are swappable between AAAs and 18650s hold all the AAAs in a single unit which then has contacts each end. Easy enough to stick a mutli-meter across and check it's running at 3.6 - 4.5v and obviously that's close to the 4.2 - 3.5 ish running voltage of an 18650. The 18650 will supply more current for longer and hold its voltage (especially under load) much better than a stack of AAAs though, which is why these torches work much better with them.But then what about 2x1.5v, or 4x1.5v and so on. If you have several different bits of kit, all with different setups it needs detailed knowledge of the torch design and electronics to know whether it's advisable or not to start buggering around with power sources.
I'm just asking the question, as a non geek, because it seems risky to me.
Some torches can replace an AA with the lithium size equivalent (14xxx? escapes me for the minute)... quite simply they are rated to run at either voltage. I wouldn't try it in a torch not sold as capable for that though. I've got a couple of these as as I can switch them to normal AAs and not worry about flying with them.
I'll freely admit that my electrical knowledge isn't the greatest, and I was curious if my attitude of 'don't put li-ions in torches that aren't designed for them,' is still a reasonable one. So I went away and asked a member of BLF who has modded a lot of torches and knows his stuff.
The issue apparently is current rather than voltage - li-ions put out a lot more current. A solid, well constructed light with good components that isn't specifically rated for li-ions should handle it fine. But if there isn't sufficient heat sinking, or the driver can't handle the extra current then it could fry the various components. It sounds like there are several potential points of failure.
Protected cells are likely to be less of an issue, and if the manufacturer has made reference to it accepting li-ion (even referring to CR123A's) it should be fine.
So it may work, but at the price point we're discussing I would argue that it's a real gamble as to whether the driver and heatsinking etc will be up to the task. Which begs the question - with lights designed for 18650's costing less than a fiver, why would you chance it?
Edited by tenohfive on Thursday 5th January 22:32
tenohfive said:
jimmyjimjim said:
So, can anyone recommend a supplier of 18650 and 26650 cells in the US - or can recommend specific versions of said product on amazon.com?
I suspect I'll get myself a VC4 charger from amazon shortly, as they're only $22.
Mountain Electronics are well regarded in the US I gather.I suspect I'll get myself a VC4 charger from amazon shortly, as they're only $22.
Just ordered 2 SC2+'s...somewhat ashamedly, I have to admit not getting my Father a birthday present last year, one of them should made a nice belated gift for him
Nigel_O said:
I'm now the proud owner of a Nitecore TM06S and a couple more 3400mAh 18650s - will be delivered tomorrow by an extremely efficient TorchDirect.
I'm almost looking forward to my Friday evening walk now - I wonder how much better an Olight Marauder would be.....
I use the Nitecore as my go to searchlight, it's cracking. I've got the marauder too, it is amazing and if you're not straying far from a vehicle it's fine, a bit too bulky to carry for far though, but a big wall of light, I use it for missing person searches and it can sweep a big area in one. I'm almost looking forward to my Friday evening walk now - I wonder how much better an Olight Marauder would be.....
tenohfive said:
defblade said:
FiF said:
Assuming they are in series.
But then what about 2x1.5v, or 4x1.5v and so on. If you have several different bits of kit, all with different setups it needs detailed knowledge of the torch design and electronics to know whether it's advisable or not to start buggering around with power sources.
I'm just asking the question, as a non geek, because it seems risky to me.
The ones that are swappable between AAAs and 18650s hold all the AAAs in a single unit which then has contacts each end. Easy enough to stick a mutli-meter across and check it's running at 3.6 - 4.5v and obviously that's close to the 4.2 - 3.5 ish running voltage of an 18650. The 18650 will supply more current for longer and hold its voltage (especially under load) much better than a stack of AAAs though, which is why these torches work much better with them.But then what about 2x1.5v, or 4x1.5v and so on. If you have several different bits of kit, all with different setups it needs detailed knowledge of the torch design and electronics to know whether it's advisable or not to start buggering around with power sources.
I'm just asking the question, as a non geek, because it seems risky to me.
Some torches can replace an AA with the lithium size equivalent (14xxx? escapes me for the minute)... quite simply they are rated to run at either voltage. I wouldn't try it in a torch not sold as capable for that though. I've got a couple of these as as I can switch them to normal AAs and not worry about flying with them.
I'll freely admit that my electrical knowledge isn't the greatest, and I was curious if my attitude of 'don't put li-ions in torches that aren't designed for them,' is still a reasonable one. So I went away and asked a member of BLF who has modded a lot of torches and knows his stuff.
The issue apparently is current rather than voltage - li-ions put out a lot more current. A solid, well constructed light with good components that isn't specifically rated for li-ions should handle it fine. But if there isn't sufficient heat sinking, or the driver can't handle the extra current then it could fry the various components. It sounds like there are several potential points of failure.
Protected cells are likely to be less of an issue, and if the manufacturer has made reference to it accepting li-ion (even referring to CR123A's) it should be fine.
So it may work, but at the price point we're discussing I would argue that it's a real gamble as to whether the driver and heatsinking etc will be up to the task. Which begs the question - with lights designed for 18650's costing less than a fiver, why would you chance it?
Edited by tenohfive on Thursday 5th January 22:32
Anyway that explanation makes sense, and indeed, why risk it?
Hope nobody mines if I share a review I've just done, seems to fit in with this thread.
me said:
Rofis TR18 XP-L HI 1100 Lumens
YouTube video review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLLeMzk2Zf8&am...
Declaration & Thanks:
This light was supplied for review by Rofis flashlights.
Conclusion Summary:
Just wow! An awesome light with loads of unique and cool features.
As a 'normal' light it works very well, great performance and a lovely beam. The added features make it unique and very useful however.
Manufacture Specs:
Info about my reviews and testing:
I like to keep my reviews fairly informal and not overly technical. There are plenty of talented people with fancy measuring devices to offer more technical detail. What I want to do is give an honest appraisal of owning and using this torch, and what a regular punter will make of it.
What’s in the box?
The TR18 comes with the usual spare o-rings. A quality holster, lanyard and tailcap magnet adapter.
Exterior Design & Ergonomics:
The anodising is flawless on my sample. The switch feels great with a positive 'click' sound when using it, despite being an electronic switch. The threaded sections are square in profile and have no binding or slop in them.
It has stable tail standing and comfortable to hold and use.
Beam:
The TR18 is a compact 18650 tube light and uses an XP-L HI with an OP reflector.
This in turn gives you an intense bright hotspot, but the reflector still giving a useful spill beam. This is possible the ideal combination for a general purpose light. The smaller XP-G2 LEDs tend to throw well, but lack output with a duller spill beam and smaller hot spot. While an XM-L2/XP-L light tends to have a large hotspot, but limited throw, making them less useful out doors. This TR18 with the XP-L HI and OP reflector seems to be the sweet spot in my opinion. Good throw and beam distance, but a very usable spill beam too.
Switch, UI & Performance:
The TR18 uses a single electronic side switch. This activates the light and selects modes. There is an electronic lock out for the light.
A full click turns the flashlight on.
Once on, the side switch scrolls through the modes. A click and hold will advance through the outputs.
From off click and hold will take you to moonlight.
A double click from on will enter strobe.
My only lament on the UI is, there is no instant to max output. Which means you can easily scroll past it and have to start again.
Moonlight is rated at 4 lumens, maybe not true moonlight, but certainly fairly low.
About 3 seconds after activating the light, the side switch will blink a colour to tell you status of the battery.
In Actual Usage:
Size wise the TR18 compares favourably with other 18650 tube lights. The pocket clip provides anti roll capabilities.
I found the beam, tint and UI to all be great for EDC use. The low isn’t a moonlight in my opinion, just a low., but it is a suitable low setting, and the beam is ideal for general use.
So now onto the party tricks. The TR18 offers 3 fairly unique features you won't find on most other lights.
1. It comes with a tripod mount. While this might not be instantly obvious to it's benefits, it has real world uses when you consider one of the other features this light has.
2. One of the accessories for the light, is an adapter that screws into the tripod mount. The light retains the ability to tailstand, but now has a magnet too. Meaning you can easily attached it to many surfaces.
3. The prime feature however is the rotating head assembly, which turn this tube light into a compact angle light. Which now highlights how useful the tripod and mag mount can be. The pocket clip is also design for use in the angle mode. This makes this light a highly capable work light for many different situations and uses. And the best bit is, these cool features don't hinder it being a regular tube light either.
YouTube video review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLLeMzk2Zf8&am...
Declaration & Thanks:
This light was supplied for review by Rofis flashlights.
Conclusion Summary:
Just wow! An awesome light with loads of unique and cool features.
As a 'normal' light it works very well, great performance and a lovely beam. The added features make it unique and very useful however.
Manufacture Specs:
Info about my reviews and testing:
I like to keep my reviews fairly informal and not overly technical. There are plenty of talented people with fancy measuring devices to offer more technical detail. What I want to do is give an honest appraisal of owning and using this torch, and what a regular punter will make of it.
What’s in the box?
The TR18 comes with the usual spare o-rings. A quality holster, lanyard and tailcap magnet adapter.
Exterior Design & Ergonomics:
The anodising is flawless on my sample. The switch feels great with a positive 'click' sound when using it, despite being an electronic switch. The threaded sections are square in profile and have no binding or slop in them.
It has stable tail standing and comfortable to hold and use.
Beam:
The TR18 is a compact 18650 tube light and uses an XP-L HI with an OP reflector.
This in turn gives you an intense bright hotspot, but the reflector still giving a useful spill beam. This is possible the ideal combination for a general purpose light. The smaller XP-G2 LEDs tend to throw well, but lack output with a duller spill beam and smaller hot spot. While an XM-L2/XP-L light tends to have a large hotspot, but limited throw, making them less useful out doors. This TR18 with the XP-L HI and OP reflector seems to be the sweet spot in my opinion. Good throw and beam distance, but a very usable spill beam too.
Switch, UI & Performance:
The TR18 uses a single electronic side switch. This activates the light and selects modes. There is an electronic lock out for the light.
A full click turns the flashlight on.
Once on, the side switch scrolls through the modes. A click and hold will advance through the outputs.
From off click and hold will take you to moonlight.
A double click from on will enter strobe.
My only lament on the UI is, there is no instant to max output. Which means you can easily scroll past it and have to start again.
Moonlight is rated at 4 lumens, maybe not true moonlight, but certainly fairly low.
About 3 seconds after activating the light, the side switch will blink a colour to tell you status of the battery.
In Actual Usage:
Size wise the TR18 compares favourably with other 18650 tube lights. The pocket clip provides anti roll capabilities.
I found the beam, tint and UI to all be great for EDC use. The low isn’t a moonlight in my opinion, just a low., but it is a suitable low setting, and the beam is ideal for general use.
So now onto the party tricks. The TR18 offers 3 fairly unique features you won't find on most other lights.
1. It comes with a tripod mount. While this might not be instantly obvious to it's benefits, it has real world uses when you consider one of the other features this light has.
2. One of the accessories for the light, is an adapter that screws into the tripod mount. The light retains the ability to tailstand, but now has a magnet too. Meaning you can easily attached it to many surfaces.
3. The prime feature however is the rotating head assembly, which turn this tube light into a compact angle light. Which now highlights how useful the tripod and mag mount can be. The pocket clip is also design for use in the angle mode. This makes this light a highly capable work light for many different situations and uses. And the best bit is, these cool features don't hinder it being a regular tube light either.
OK, finally have a couple of 18650s to go with the new Zebralight H600Fw and the old Fenix PD32UE.
They will be being charged by my VC4 (also new so I sympathise with TinRobot) so is there anything I really need to do to look after them? Will they be happy sitting in the torches for months on end as they don't get a load of use or would they be better if they're removed and "topped up" now and again or is that a no-no?
Also ordered a new AAA keychain torch from the Convoy store on AliExpress as the old Fenix E05 really isn't very bright.
They will be being charged by my VC4 (also new so I sympathise with TinRobot) so is there anything I really need to do to look after them? Will they be happy sitting in the torches for months on end as they don't get a load of use or would they be better if they're removed and "topped up" now and again or is that a no-no?
Also ordered a new AAA keychain torch from the Convoy store on AliExpress as the old Fenix E05 really isn't very bright.
Stemll, they should be fine, but if they're cheap/unbranded/unprotected be aware of over discharging them. The charger will prevent overcharge, but if you're likely to be using a good chunk of the capacity then I'd consider topping them up.
TinRobot,
To quote a man with 400 plus torch builds under his belt (not me for the record, even a simple spring bypass is beyond me), the L6 offers the, "best output and build for the money out there."
I don't think there's such a thing as a 'best' torch - it's horses for courses - but I'm not aware of any similar quality light that'll put out 3500 genuine lumens out there in the way the L6 does at that price point.
Just make sure you get the right size 26650's - not all will fit. I gather these will (they specifically mention it in the description)
http://www.banggood.com/1pc-Keeppower-ICR26650-520...
TinRobot,
To quote a man with 400 plus torch builds under his belt (not me for the record, even a simple spring bypass is beyond me), the L6 offers the, "best output and build for the money out there."
I don't think there's such a thing as a 'best' torch - it's horses for courses - but I'm not aware of any similar quality light that'll put out 3500 genuine lumens out there in the way the L6 does at that price point.
Just make sure you get the right size 26650's - not all will fit. I gather these will (they specifically mention it in the description)
http://www.banggood.com/1pc-Keeppower-ICR26650-520...
tenohfive said:
Stemll, they should be fine, but if they're cheap/unbranded/unprotected be aware of over discharging them. The charger will prevent overcharge, but if you're likely to be using a good chunk of the capacity then I'd consider topping them up.
They are protected Xtar cells and both the Zebralight and the Fenix both have low voltage warning mechanisms.I have to say I have read all the talk on here of how much brighter a torch will be with 18650s with a healthy amount of doubt but the change in the Fenix between the CR123s and the 18650 did genuinely surprise me. I also love how floody the Zebralight is, going to be great for cleaning out the rabbits (fear not, I will move the rabbits first so I don't blind them
) and for the walk back to the tent on Bleu Sud at Le Mans.Now, must stop reading this thread and I REALLY do not need an account on CPF.
Tried the new Nitecore TM06S last night - good grief, it's bright (and a great hand-warmer....)
For a floody light, it's still got a well defined hotspot, so feels like a bit of a thrower too.
Button control is a bit fiddly - full press for on and off and a half-press for mode cycling. Trouble is, with gloved fingers, it's difficult to gauge the pressure required. It should ideally have been a two-stage button with defined 'click' levels. This is nit-picking though - it's a superb piece of kit.
It's quite telling that a year or so ago, my most expensive torch was a £30 5D mag lite. Now, my latest torch has double that value of batteries inside it.....
For a floody light, it's still got a well defined hotspot, so feels like a bit of a thrower too.
Button control is a bit fiddly - full press for on and off and a half-press for mode cycling. Trouble is, with gloved fingers, it's difficult to gauge the pressure required. It should ideally have been a two-stage button with defined 'click' levels. This is nit-picking though - it's a superb piece of kit.
It's quite telling that a year or so ago, my most expensive torch was a £30 5D mag lite. Now, my latest torch has double that value of batteries inside it.....
Is there a light that has an 18650 or similar built in? I.e. You can just plug a charger of some sort into th torch to charge it up? For my dad as he won't get into all this charging b
ks and having different charger etc so I'd like to just get him something where you plug the round charging plug straight into the side of the torch and it does the rest. If you know what I mean. Also cheap is good. Any ideas?
ks and having different charger etc so I'd like to just get him something where you plug the round charging plug straight into the side of the torch and it does the rest. If you know what I mean. Also cheap is good. Any ideas?went for this, lot of kit included, super bright, almost too much, nice shape, micro usb charging direct into the body
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MYCARBON-Rechargeable-Wat...
what's the view on the lumen rating of torchs, are they accurate? this one is only quoted at 800
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MYCARBON-Rechargeable-Wat...
what's the view on the lumen rating of torchs, are they accurate? this one is only quoted at 800
If it's a reputable brand, yes. If not, pot luck will determine whether the lumen figures are in the same ball park. Can't say I've ever heard of MYCARBON, so I'd jump to the latter conclusion.
Personally I wouldn't touch that lot with a barge pole, I'm not sure whether the charging circuit that's built in will prevent overcharging (read: risk of fire) and I doubt that being a no-name/no-brand 18650 it's protected, so I'd be very wary of using that combination together. If you do charge it with the provided cable I'd suggest only doing so when it's being supervised - and once done, unplug it.
(I should add that if you're happy with it that's the main thing...just be careful.)
Personally I wouldn't touch that lot with a barge pole, I'm not sure whether the charging circuit that's built in will prevent overcharging (read: risk of fire) and I doubt that being a no-name/no-brand 18650 it's protected, so I'd be very wary of using that combination together. If you do charge it with the provided cable I'd suggest only doing so when it's being supervised - and once done, unplug it.
(I should add that if you're happy with it that's the main thing...just be careful.)
Latest light just arrived...another Convoy S2+. Not exactly a new toy (I've got two other S2+'s, plus a C8 - and I'm a hairsbreadth away from ordering an L6) but I'm always impressed by just how well built they are. And in grey they look pretty good too.
Some tailcap magnets also arrived - you lose the use of the lanyard but I think it's worth it for round the house use.
Some tailcap magnets also arrived - you lose the use of the lanyard but I think it's worth it for round the house use.
Well, I have a new toy and more on the way.
My 3D LED Maglite just up and died (honest dear, it did) and given that I'd just bought NiMH D cells for it I kinda wanted another D cell torch to sit on the filing cabinet where the missus can find it. Quite liked the Lenser P17.2 but it seemed quite a lot of money for not much so finally plumped for a Coast HP17 which I got for £45 from FFX. Really nicely put together, better than the Maglite (considerably bigger than the 3D Maglite) and easily on a par with LED Lenser. Well defined beam without the dark rings that the Maglites always seems to produce.
Other things I'm waiting on are a Convoy S2+ from Simon on AliExpress and some Aoso 18650s from Torchy the battery boy (seller big_f_d_d) on eBay (a seller I would probably have run a mile from with name like that if not recommended above). Cost about half what I paid for the Xtars.
I am now going away and not coming back to this thread and not reading anything else posted by tenohfive (hmmm, an L6 you say, that could keep half of Le Mans Bleu Sud campsite awake). Sorry, yes dear I'm logging off now, no dear, I won't but any more torches dear. Yes, dear, we have plenty of torches.
(has she gone yet?)
My 3D LED Maglite just up and died (honest dear, it did) and given that I'd just bought NiMH D cells for it I kinda wanted another D cell torch to sit on the filing cabinet where the missus can find it. Quite liked the Lenser P17.2 but it seemed quite a lot of money for not much so finally plumped for a Coast HP17 which I got for £45 from FFX. Really nicely put together, better than the Maglite (considerably bigger than the 3D Maglite) and easily on a par with LED Lenser. Well defined beam without the dark rings that the Maglites always seems to produce.
Other things I'm waiting on are a Convoy S2+ from Simon on AliExpress and some Aoso 18650s from Torchy the battery boy (seller big_f_d_d) on eBay (a seller I would probably have run a mile from with name like that if not recommended above). Cost about half what I paid for the Xtars.
I am now going away and not coming back to this thread and not reading anything else posted by tenohfive (hmmm, an L6 you say, that could keep half of Le Mans Bleu Sud campsite awake). Sorry, yes dear I'm logging off now, no dear, I won't but any more torches dear. Yes, dear, we have plenty of torches.
(has she gone yet?)
Be interested to read some real reports of the Convoy L6. So far have only watched one review, some bod on ukpreppers that I found by a rapid Google. Maybe his photography is lousy, but the night shots didn't look anything special, really nothing special at all. Will look again later for more reviews, any links appreciated.
Thanks in advance. Oh and damn this thread.
Thanks in advance. Oh and damn this thread.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Did you discharge the batteries, then recharge - or was it just that when they arrived they only needed 2600mah to top up?FiF said:
Be interested to read some real reports of the Convoy L6. So far have only watched one review, some bod on ukpreppers that I found by a rapid Google. Maybe his photography is lousy, but the night shots didn't look anything special, really nothing special at all. Will look again later for more reviews, any links appreciated.
Thanks in advance. Oh and damn this thread.
I won't send that patronising Google thing, but reviews are out there:Thanks in advance. Oh and damn this thread.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php...
http://lightsngear.com/convoy-l6-xhp-70-led-flashl...
I've not got one. I WANT ONE. Not because it's a great thrower (it's good, there are better.) Not because it's a great flooder (ditto.) It's because at a very reasonable price it'll pump out 3500 usable lumens and comes with the (fairly standard now) bulletproof Convoy build quality. I don't need one but I'm sure I'll use it. And I want to see what an XHP 70 can do too.
I'll quote a prominent BLF member that's been very helpful when I've wanted advice (a member that others seem to respect too.)
"The Convoy L6, at around $50, is an incredible bargain. It takes 2 26650 Li-ion cells and makes 3500 lumens or more. True lumens. Best output and build for the money out there"
Perhaps that's the main reason it's raved about - budget. There's nothing else out there that'll come close to the output at that price point.
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