BT's relic-grade broadband
Discussion
Alex said:
After years of 3mbps max ADSL, our village has finally been upgraded to FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) through the government's Superfast Broadband scheme.
Being installed in our little village in Cheshire as we speak. Yay!Something to do with Connecting Cheshire http://www.connectingcheshire.org.uk/home - I assumed there were similar things everywhere?
Edited by NPI on Wednesday 19th March 23:22
petemurphy said:
mph1977 said:
BT do not have 'a monopoly' on telecomms, what Openreach have, however, is a universal service obligation to provide line plant.
no phone or net ? is this village also out of reach of all 3/ 4 physical ( 02, voda, 0range and 1-to-none )mobile networks as well ?
yes thats true they dont have a monopoly. i asked plusnet for a line. only through bt. i asked sky for a line. only through bt, oh look only bt can provide a line. thats not a monopoly is it.no phone or net ? is this village also out of reach of all 3/ 4 physical ( 02, voda, 0range and 1-to-none )mobile networks as well ?
god forbid i want a telephone line living in the uk. in that remote area of oxfordshire. next to oxford a centre of research. in our first world country.
the fact that cablecos were unable to cable more than they did points out the costs involved in providing the infrastructure
mattley said:
mondeoman said:
That article gets rolled out a lot and it it only holds up with a s
t load of hindsight.Had BT been allowed to maintain their monopoly and had Cochrane got his way then the urban/rural divide would be either wider than ever and all our phone bills would be massive.
In all fairness to Cochrane he accepted the result and built an excellent fibre infrastructure for BT at a backbone level but neither he or Maggie really had a clue that rural broadband would ever exist, let alone be an issue.
Bungleaio said:
I've just done a speed test on mine and I get 3.98mb download, 0.89 up. I find it fine for surfing and watching TV through my Now TV Box. I can't imagine why I would need anything faster.
What are you guys doing to need 50mb connections?
Good point. I've just had BT Infinity fibreoptic set up, 64.5 mb/s compared to my old Sky at 3.5 mb/s. It is lightning fast. Do I really need it? Dunno, time will tell.What are you guys doing to need 50mb connections?
Bungleaio said:
I've just done a speed test on mine and I get 3.98mb download, 0.89 up. I find it fine for surfing and watching TV through my Now TV Box. I can't imagine why I would need anything faster.
What are you guys doing to need 50mb connections?
Watching 2 TV channels? I've about 500GB of photos alone I'd like to backup offsite, but I can't face the idea of waiting however long that would take on <1Mb upload.What are you guys doing to need 50mb connections?
I work from home as a software developer. Every minute waiting for multi-gigabyte downloads costs. I try and do as much as I can remotely, but it's easier if I can download things. We're due to get our exchange FTTC enabled between April and September (how they can't be more accurate than that in late March I don't know). Only time will tell if having an FTTC enabled exchange actually gets our house decent broadband.
0000 said:
Watching 2 TV channels? I've about 500GB of photos alone I'd like to backup offsite, but I can't face the idea of waiting however long that would take on <1Mb upload.
I work from home as a software developer. Every minute waiting for multi-gigabyte downloads costs. I try and do as much as I can remotely, but it's easier if I can download things. We're due to get our exchange FTTC enabled between April and September (how they can't be more accurate than that in late March I don't know). Only time will tell if having an FTTC enabled exchange actually gets our house decent broadband.
FTTC will make a big difference if you are close enough, but to be honest if you are a software developer and slow broadband costs you money, you need to take that into account when moving house - fast broadband is not universal, there is enough in the news about it for it not to be a surprise....I work from home as a software developer. Every minute waiting for multi-gigabyte downloads costs. I try and do as much as I can remotely, but it's easier if I can download things. We're due to get our exchange FTTC enabled between April and September (how they can't be more accurate than that in late March I don't know). Only time will tell if having an FTTC enabled exchange actually gets our house decent broadband.
If it really is important, rather than a nice to have, then you need to look at satellite broadband or check the 3G coverage if you really want to move there.
petemurphy said:
yes thats true they dont have a monopoly. i asked plusnet for a line. only through bt. i asked sky for a line. only through bt, oh look only bt can provide a line. thats not a monopoly is it.
god forbid i want a telephone line living in the uk. in that remote area of oxfordshire. next to oxford a centre of research. in our first world country.
Ofcom put in place a structure to enable, anyone to unbundle the last mile copper and exchanges, equality of access, that no one really does anymore is because it's not as easy or as profitable as it soundsgod forbid i want a telephone line living in the uk. in that remote area of oxfordshire. next to oxford a centre of research. in our first world country.
Likewise for a telco to lay its own copper and fibre is not as easy and profitable as it sounds
Why?
Because no private company will invest money for no return.
What you really need is a monopoly, with a universal service obligation to provide everywhere, and then let them make the money to pay for it
kapiteinlangzaam said:
The state of BB in rural UK is shocking.
My dear old parents are still suffering on with a 2Mb ADSL connection - often realising heady speeds of 500kb per second when no one else nearby is trying to surf.
I live in rural NL, in a broadly equivalent situation.
I have a 100Mb glass-fibre connection (with an upgrade to 500Mb due soon). Just about everyone in NL has access to a 50Mb connection, either via cable or glass-fibre.
Rural UK is in a relative BB dark-age!
Yes and you live in a country about as big as my arse ! My dear old parents are still suffering on with a 2Mb ADSL connection - often realising heady speeds of 500kb per second when no one else nearby is trying to surf.
I live in rural NL, in a broadly equivalent situation.
I have a 100Mb glass-fibre connection (with an upgrade to 500Mb due soon). Just about everyone in NL has access to a 50Mb connection, either via cable or glass-fibre.
Rural UK is in a relative BB dark-age!
Burrow01 said:
FTTC will make a big difference if you are close enough, but to be honest if you are a software developer and slow broadband costs you money, you need to take that into account when moving house - fast broadband is not universal, there is enough in the news about it for it not to be a surprise....
If it really is important, rather than a nice to have, then you need to look at satellite broadband or check the 3G coverage if you really want to move there.
FTTC only makes a difference if they upgrade the local cabinet, not just the exchange. Satellite broadband means high latency and a dish when I'm renting, 3G isn't reliable enough and gets subject to all sorts of weird network setups. I get 6Mbps down, it's ok but I'd pay quite a lot more if I could. Moving house is quite an extreme step but it is on the cards, I've spent years looking.If it really is important, rather than a nice to have, then you need to look at satellite broadband or check the 3G coverage if you really want to move there.
NPI said:
Alex said:
After years of 3mbps max ADSL, our village has finally been upgraded to FTTC (fibre to the cabinet) through the government's Superfast Broadband scheme.
Being installed in our little village in Cheshire as we speak. Yay!Something to do with Connecting Cheshire http://www.connectingcheshire.org.uk/home - I assumed there were similar things everywhere?
mph1977 said:
Openreach , while part of the BT group are NOT BT retail - you'll be paying your service provider for the line etc ... but the average PHer despuite their powerfully built COpnaby director status seems to have a great deal of difficulty in understanding such things preferring to slag off none existant monoliths and made up monopolies ...
the fact that cablecos were unable to cable more than they did points out the costs involved in providing the infrastructure
dress it up how u like its an inefficient monopoly. yes it perhaps needs a gov/monpoly to provide the infrastructure the same way the post office has to deliver to small villages but the argument here is BT are sthe fact that cablecos were unable to cable more than they did points out the costs involved in providing the infrastructure
te and holding back the UK and are not up to the job.a quick google and many agree
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/festival-of-bus...
petemurphy said:
dress it up how u like its an inefficient monopoly. yes it perhaps needs a gov/monpoly to provide the infrastructure the same way the post office has to deliver to small villages but the argument here is BT are ste and holding back the UK and are not up to the job.
a quick google and many agree
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/festival-of-bus...
Propose an alternative model for the infrastructure then. The article you linked contains no information on how the current model works or what an alternative solution would look like.te and holding back the UK and are not up to the job.a quick google and many agree
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/festival-of-bus...
As an aside, it's not just BT Openreach that can supply a phone line. Virgin Media can supply one and have millions of customers. However they will only supply where it is profitable for them to do so, as they have no universal service obligation. So, is the current model broken because only Openreach have a universal service obligation and VM do not, or what? Should VM (and perhaps other telecos, e.g. C&W) have USOs placed on them? Or do you have an alternative solution?
We've got 4MB at home, it's not great, but to be honest it's not life ending - annoyingly every exchange for miles in any direction is fibre, but for reasons unknown we can't get it.
Anyway, 4MB is fine for streaming YouTube in 1080p, streams Netflix fine, although the first 30seconds or so is quite grainy. Downloading MP3s is a sub-min thing.
The problems arise downloading video and game files, not sure if you're a gamer, but for example
Gran Turismo 5 was shat out on the market a few years ago needing a 1600mb-ish patch to work from the off - on my connection it took about 24 hours to download. If you want to download a HD film to watch of an evening, it's best to choose what you fancy and start the process as you're eating breakfast.
We also have a 90ms+ ping, not such an issue for downloads, but a stter for gaming.
Anyway, 4MB is fine for streaming YouTube in 1080p, streams Netflix fine, although the first 30seconds or so is quite grainy. Downloading MP3s is a sub-min thing.
The problems arise downloading video and game files, not sure if you're a gamer, but for example
Gran Turismo 5 was shat out on the market a few years ago needing a 1600mb-ish patch to work from the off - on my connection it took about 24 hours to download. If you want to download a HD film to watch of an evening, it's best to choose what you fancy and start the process as you're eating breakfast.
We also have a 90ms+ ping, not such an issue for downloads, but a s
tter for gaming. You propose to remove the regulator? At present OFCOM tell BT (Openreach) what they are allowed to charge for a range wholesale product and tell BT when to allow access to the network and what to charge for it. You wish to do away with this? Leaving the market unregulated where there is a single infrastructure provider with nationwide coverage will improve the situation how?
I want a deregulated market, I want to be able to buy a private circuit and backhaul from a variety of providers and it not cost thousands to install and hundreds a month to rent. I want to see FTTP rolled out nationwide. I don't see how what you suggest will get us there.
I want a deregulated market, I want to be able to buy a private circuit and backhaul from a variety of providers and it not cost thousands to install and hundreds a month to rent. I want to see FTTP rolled out nationwide. I don't see how what you suggest will get us there.
I live within 1 mile of Sheffield City centre and get 2mb through BT. You'd have thought being so close to the main part of the city that fast broadband would be the standard, it's a joke how far we are behind other countries. I remember playing online PC Games 10 years ago and the foreigners already having 50mb+
lewisf182 said:
I live within 1 mile of Sheffield City centre and get 2mb through BT. You'd have thought being so close to the main part of the city that fast broadband would be the standard, it's a joke how far we are behind other countries. I remember playing online PC Games 10 years ago and the foreigners already having 50mb+
You have a serious problem with your connection then and need to get it fixed (should be getting at least 8mb)
how far as the crow flies you are from anything is irrelevant
its the route the copper takes. Bridges, railways, major trunk roads, canals, rivers e.t.c all cause the routes to be longer than ideal
likewise depending on how old and thick the copper is will determine how well it transmits a signal.
add the 2 together and sometimes illogical places get crap speeds.
Its not however viable for BT to rip out all of the copper and replace, it is unfortunately in that regard a profit making company not a charity
its the route the copper takes. Bridges, railways, major trunk roads, canals, rivers e.t.c all cause the routes to be longer than ideal
likewise depending on how old and thick the copper is will determine how well it transmits a signal.
add the 2 together and sometimes illogical places get crap speeds.
Its not however viable for BT to rip out all of the copper and replace, it is unfortunately in that regard a profit making company not a charity
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