BT's relic-grade broadband

[JimmyTheHand]

bimsb6 said:

Each fttc cabinet will only support approx 150 circuits

£30k / 150 connections = £200 per connection. £200 / 24 months = £8.33 per month.

I was working on a take up of 1 in 12 of 900 properties or 75 properties connected per box – I'd expect them to have more potential connections than they can serve to a box and to base that figure on experience of take-up elsewhere

[NPI]

JimmyTheHand said:

£30k / 150 connections = £200 per connection.

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. They've been working in our village for 3mths and it's not finished yet.

Anyway, even if there's nothing stopping them, why pay for it yourself if someone else can pay?

But there may be technical issues, bottlenecks further up the line etc.

[JimmyTheHand]

NPI said:

I think it's a bit more complicated than that. They've been working in our village for 3mths and it's not finished yet.

Anyway, even if there's nothing stopping them, why pay for it yourself if someone else can pay?

But there may be technical issues, bottlenecks further up the line etc.

Yes it is more complicated than that especially when they are retro-fitting. However the estate where I live is in a town where they have already fibred up the exchange and rest of town, one of the boxes on the site is already suitable for upgrading and I believe installed after fibre was available in town - so it seems strange they didn't just install the fibre and equipment (well if you exclude extracting more money angle, I suspect it will actually cost more to do now than if they'd done it at the time)

Now add it appears developers and BT have contracts signed to provide better broadband. Council seems to have learnt though - future developements will have to ensure access to faster broadband (assuming council can remember next time)

[bimsb6]

JimmyTheHand said:

Yes it is more complicated than that especially when they are retro-fitting. However the estate where I live is in a town where they have already fibred up the exchange and rest of town, one of the boxes on the site is already suitable for upgrading and I believe installed after fibre was available in town - so it seems strange they didn't just install the fibre and equipment (well if you exclude extracting more money angle, I suspect it will actually cost more to do now than if they'd done it at the time)

Now add it appears developers and BT have contracts signed to provide better broadband. Council seems to have learnt though - future developements will have to ensure access to faster broadband (assuming council can remember next time)

Try considering that the contract to fttc your exchange has been completed ! The original contract may not have included your cabinet/ estate so will not have been scheduled in to the roll out and will e added on later .

[Dave_ST220]

bimsb6 said:

Each fttc cabinet will only support approx 150 circuits

Steve, the cab here seems to have 28 10 pair strips which would = 280 connections? No complaints here, I'm about 200m away from the can & getting 65mb. Line has gone noisy though Waiting for OR visit.

[bimsb6]

Dave_ST220 said:

Steve, the cab here seems to have 28 10 pair strips which would = 280 connections? No complaints here, I'm about 200m away from the can & getting 65mb. Line has gone noisy though Waiting for OR visit.

Quite possibly , the smaller cabs still have a 200pr tie to the dslam but not all pairs are used , apparently the biggest of the cabinets will carry 288 ! There are several different makes of cabinet however .

Edited by bimsb6 on Friday 4th April 18:04

[Dave_ST220]

Thanks for that. Yeah they use two makes. Eci and huawei. Have you seen much difference with the mk2 vdsl faceplate? Sorry for the ot.

[JimmyTheHand]

bimsb6 said:

Try considering that the contract to fttc your exchange has been completed ! The original contract may not have included your cabinet/ estate so will not have been scheduled in to the roll out and will e added on later .

That sounds like you are suggesting BT has a problem with foresight and planning - a new estate that will increases size of town by fair margin doesn't happen over night and building work is happening in many towns in area - but I suspect they are looking at government to pay for the new infrastructure rather than invest themselves.

I don't see much difference in BT's behaviour to what I saw 2 decades ago when I worked in telecoms.

[Dave_ST220]

I think that is very true. They want their cake and eat it. Loads of new build estates have no fttc. They (bt) look to councils to pay for the installation. A private company should pay for its own infrastructure.

[Dave_ST220]

Although they do seem to be learning. The cabs I've seen have spare capacity as far as fibre goes.

[Kermit power]

How is people living in idyllic rural locations moaning about not being given ultra-fast broadband any different than people complaining about not being given a big enough house on benefits or enough compensation for the trauma of getting a paper cut at work?

Just because it's a middle class manifestation of entitlement culture, it doesn't mean it's not entitlement culture. I live in a densely populated suburban area with fast broadband at a reasonable cost, and the trade off for that is that I don't get to wake up in the morning and stand at my bedroom window looking over acres of meadows and bunnies gamboling on my lawn feeling smug about my 6 bed house with 5 acres of garden for £150k. Why should I pay more for my broadband just to subsidise people living in the arse end of nowhere?

If you want super-fast broadband in the arse end of nowhere, then just take a fraction of the savings you've made buying your property, and pay for it yourself.

[0000]

Kermit power said:

How is people living in idyllic rural locations moaning about not being given ultra-fast broadband any different than people complaining about not being given a big enough house on benefits or enough compensation for the trauma of getting a paper cut at work?

Those who've had fibre broadband subsidised by tax of others who haven't received it are the ones I see as being nearer any parallel with those in the benefits system.

BT, when spending the tax money set aside for providing fibre to rural communities, aren't giving them the option to pay whatever the cost is to get it. I'd quite happily pay many multiples of what I'm currently paying to get fibre, I'm sure others would too.

[Mr Whippy]

Exactly.

Right now I pay £16 for infinite ADSL, but I'd pay £16 for infinite Infinity too.

I'd happily pay £32 for Infinity and I'm sure everyone on my cabinet would (exchange was done)



But lets be honest about sharing costs. Rural areas pay a fortune for council tax and what do we get? Bins once every two weeks.

In the end we're all in it together in society, and I don't moan about urban peoples street lighting, swimming pools, or libraries and so on


BT bhed and moaned about ADSL in rural areas but it's everywhere now and I think everyone in our local area has ADSL internet.

Fibre will be embraced by everyone so it's always "economically viable". It might not happen instantly but people WILL want it and use it if it's available.
Anyone still on dial-up given the option of ADSL or Fibre? I don't think so

Even if it takes 10 years to make a full ROI, it's worth doing. BT are even subsidised to roll out fibre so it's hardly a huge hardship is it? Cripes, how many businesses get given money to do what they should do to begin with?

It's sad when Virgin can lay new cables and mobile companies build transmitters and out-perform BT who already have infrastructure AND are subsidised to upgrade it.

[onomatopoeia]

0000 said:

BT, when spending the tax money set aside for providing fibre to rural communities, aren't giving them the option to pay whatever the cost is to get it. I'd quite happily pay many multiples of what I'm currently paying to get fibre, I'm sure others would too.

Plenty of organisations will supply you with a dedicated high speed, fixed line internet connection to your home that does not use your telephone line at all, if you are prepared to pay for it.

[bimsb6]

JimmyTheHand said:

That sounds like you are suggesting BT has a problem with foresight and planning - a new estate that will increases size of town by fair margin doesn't happen over night and building work is happening in many towns in area - but I suspect they are looking at government to pay for the new infrastructure rather than invest themselves.

I don't see much difference in BT's behaviour to what I saw 2 decades ago when I worked in telecoms.

The councils know what estates are being built , it is they who should be adding the estates to the contract no ?

[mph1977]

Mr Whippy said:

Exactly.

Right now I pay £16 for infinite ADSL, but I'd pay £16 for infinite Infinity too.

I'd happily pay £32 for Infinity and I'm sure everyone on my cabinet would (exchange was done)



But lets be honest about sharing costs. Rural areas pay a fortune for council tax and what do we get? Bins once every two weeks.

the first paragraph started so whell and then the PH libertarian sociopathic traits come out..

Local authorities provide far more services than bins ... but that doesn't matter in a PH libertarian sociopathic / Clarksonian soundbite does it ???

<snip>

Mr Whippy said:

BT bhed and moaned about ADSL in rural areas but it's everywhere now and I think everyone in our local area has ADSL internet.

pre-split monolithic BT was rightly aggrieved that it has the USO and no-one else did and saw urban and suburban markets gutted by the providersd who are now vermin meeja

it;'sthe same issue that Royal Mail was complaining aobut with the requirement that it delivered the 'last mile' of letter post for competitors ...

Mr Whippy said:

Fibre will be embraced by everyone so it's always "economically viable". It might not happen instantly but people WILL want it and use it if it's available.
Anyone still on dial-up given the option of ADSL or Fibre? I don't think so

Even if it takes 10 years to make a full ROI, it's worth doing. BT are even subsidised to roll out fibre so it's hardly a huge hardship is it? Cripes, how many businesses get given money to do what they should do to begin with?

It's sad when Virgin can lay new cables and mobile companies build transmitters and out-perform BT who already have infrastructure AND are subsidised to upgrade it.

Vermin Meeja laying new cables ? or just putting in in-fill to new developments in areas all ready served ? where has vermin actually put in a new netowrk rather than cabling up to infill in areas cabled by Diamond / Telewest etc ?

[MissChief]

Vermin mafia haven't done any large scale expansion of their network in years. There's a reason they started making a profit recently.

It IS possible for rural communities to setup their own ISP's although it does require some initial outlay. Thinkbroadband has a lot of info about rural communities buying their own equipment but it isn't cheap so really needs everyone on board to split the costs.

[JimmyTheHand]

Kermit power said:

If you want super-fast broadband in the arse end of nowhere, then just take a fraction of the savings you've made buying your property, and pay for it yourself.

Some of us aren't in "arse end of nowhere" - if I had brought a house 400 yards (the other side of a school) there would have been a choice of fast broadband available

bimsb6 said:

The councils know what estates are being built , it is they who should be adding the estates to the contract no ?

I am puzzled about terms contract in this case as in most towns and cities, I believe it is just BT providing a service, i.e. they have not contract with anyone to install it. If the estate was complete when BT were planning then I think they'd just fibred it. I am suspicious of their motivations for not doing so when estate is being built.

The government has provided some money to provide fast broadband to rural areas (BDUK) which would be uneconomical otherwise - but I don't think this would apply in most large estates.

[Hanslow]

I'm miffed with BT (first world problems and all that). There are around six cabinets in our village, they've upgraded five of them and will be accepting orders on those from 1st May. Our cabinet however, which is no more than 200 yards from another, is not being upgraded until 2016. I don't understand why they haven't done all of them as they're all within the village boundary.

[bimsb6]

JimmyTheHand said:

I am puzzled about terms contract in this case as in most towns and cities, I believe it is just BT providing a service, i.e. they have not contract with anyone to install it. If the estate was complete when BT were planning then I think they'd just fibred it. I am suspicious of their motivations for not doing so when estate is being built.

The government has provided some money to provide fast broadband to rural areas (BDUK) which would be uneconomical otherwise - but I don't think this would apply in most large estates.

Britain's superfast broadband: who's paying and when it'll arrive

Gallery
By Nicole Kobie
Posted on 15 May 2013 at 15:42

The government's broadband funding programme, Broadband Delivery UK, has hit a milestone, with BT starting work on half of the regional projects.
BDUK is the government agency doling out £530 million in public investment in broadband, designed to give 90% of homes speeds of at least 24Mbits/sec by 2015 - although many of the more recent projects aren't expected to be finished until 2016.
Here, we're keeping track of where the funding's coming from for each of the projects, as well as when the infrastructure work is expected to be completed.
Expected completion year
2014
2015
2016
23.8%
38.1%
38.1%
BT's only approved rival, Fujitsu, dropped out of bidding after failing to win a single project, leaving BT as the only option.
Alongside the government's £530 million in funding, to win the bids BT has already promised additional investment of at least £415 million for the projects announced so far. Of the total 44 projects, 22 have been announced so far. (See below for details of the projects' funding.)
BDUK funding breakdown (Wales not
included)
BDUK
BT
Councils
EU
0
25,000,000
50,000,000
75,000,000
100,000,000
Rutland
Cumbria
Herefordsh...
North York...
Lancashire
Surrey
Devon
Cambridge...
Wiltshire, etc
Norfolk
Suffolk
Northampt...
Kent/Medw...
Lincolnshire
Hampshire
Shropshire
Cheshire
West Sussex
Durham, etc
Northumbe...

Despite the BDUK rollout being a government project, BT has actually committed the most money, accounting for 39% of the total investment. BT will also reap the majority of the profits from any investment, although the recent state aid discussions have ensured there is a way for some public money to be clawed back if costs are lower or take-up higher than expected.

Read more: Britain's superfast broadband: who's paying and when it'll arrive | Broadband | News | PC Pro http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/broadband/378754/brita...