Microsoft changing things for the sake of changing things.

[Eleven]

dododo said:

Rubbish.

They spend absolute millions on design reviews and usability studies. They only make changes if the result of these studies say that it is beneficial to the majority if users - just because you aren't happy doesn't make it a poor product. Office makes billions for Microsoft so they aren't going to change it on a whim or to annoy people, so your comments are retarded.

And yet they still manage to get it completely wrong.

The reason for this is that unless they DO change things they'll be out of a job. So they change things that don't need changing and don't do it properly, so products become less easy to use and more unreliable.

And as for your charming comments "Rubbish" and "..your comments are retarded." You work in IT right? I have sacked plenty of IT people for this exact attitude. IT people like techy stuff and don't mind when it doesn't work properly if it's new and cool. The customer, however, who may not be techy, just wants things to work.

A great many IT bods blame the customer for being stupid, when in fact it is they who are stupid for not understanding how the end user thinks and what he or she wants. Which is usually just for things to work.

My main business is hospitality and accommodation these days. Your attitude is a bit like me changing the locks on a hotel room and leaving the new keys at reception. But without telling the guests. When the guests come to complain, I'll give them the new key and explain why it's so much better than the old key because it's lighter and can be programmed. I would fully expect the guest to say, "I don't give a fk, I just want to be able to get into my hotel room".

[dirkgently]

Eleven said:

Today my Nokia Lumia Windows Phone asked me to agree an update, so I did. I wish I hadn't. The calendar now seems to work completely differently, half the apps have "attention required" next to them and the battery is draining at an alarming rate.

So its not just me. My Lumia went from a good usable smart phone to a buggy piece of poo after installing the update.

[xRIEx]

Eleven said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It was Word 2010. Clearly someone realised that they'd messed it up by the time 2013 came out.

Strange, it doesn't happen in my version of Word 2010.

[Dr Jekyll]

PW said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Why the hell should I have to spend my time learning a new way of doing things

Presumably if someone who had never used a computer or any word processing software said that, they would be ridiculed for being so obstinate.

But it's ok to say it if it's a software update.

The point is that if are have chosen to start using something new it's reasonable to have to work out how to use it. But if you just want to continue doing something you already know how to do, it's ludicrous to have to plan additional time just because the replacement laptop you just bought had got windows 8 instead of 7.

[Eleven]

PW said:

Not really. The fact that it is new and there are differences is not hidden.

Anything to do with computers and software, people really do expect the Moon on a stick, for free, and will raise merry hell when they don't get it.

Couple of corrections here. On one of the major WP sites 67% of respondents complained that battery life had fallen since the upgrade.

Secondly I didn't get the software free. I paid for the phone which had the software on it. It is not free, it's part of the bundle.

[Dr Jekyll]

PW said:

Dr Jekyll said:

The point is that if are have chosen to start using something new it's reasonable to have to work out how to use it. But if you just want to continue doing something you already know how to do, it's ludicrous to have to plan additional time just because the replacement laptop you just bought had got windows 8 instead of 7.

So windows 8 isn't new?

Of course it's new, but I didn't [b]choose[/b[ to use it, it came with my new laptop. Even when I have wasted my time trying to learn a new way of doing exactly the same things, it still takes longer than using windows 7.

[bitchstewie]

Sometimes it is progress and of course there's just a learning curve. The Windows 8.1 service pack was about as close to an admission of having got quite a bit fundamentally wrong as you're likely to get IMO.

I also still don't see many businesses purchasing new machines with Windows 8.1 and it's what, almost 2 years old now - sure some of that comes down to "dull" corporate stuff like application compatibility but a lot of businesses are also asking the fundamental question "Why should we when Windows 7 fulfils all of our needs?".

Of course there's a point where you're left clinging on just like people who think Microsoft shouldn't ever drop support for an Operating System (like with XP) but there has to be some value in upgrading vs. it simply being this years version.

[King Herald]

Eleven said:

......IT people like techy stuff and don't mind when it doesn't work properly if it's new and cool. The customer, however, who may not be techy, just wants things to work.

A great many IT bods blame the customer for being stupid, when in fact it is they who are stupid for not understanding how the end user thinks and what he or she wants. Which is usually just for things to work.

Exactly. I'm a mechanic, except I still have to do stuff in Excel and Word for my job, write reports, do presentations etc. If I was in IT I'd have no problems as I'd use that stuff every day, but for a basic guy, who just wants to do basic things, I have to battle with dozens, nay, hundreds of menus, drop downs, options, add-ons, ill-conceived ideas about what I need to do....

Why can't these programs be set up like some calculators are, with a basic and a scientific mode you can switch between depending on your skill level, or what you want from it?????

[king arthur]

Glad it's not just me then. I updated to WP8.1 and as soon as I started trying to use it properly, wished I could go back to 8.0.

Some things no longer work properly and some things have been added that are just plain annoying and pointless. Text message handling for example. Previously, while using with a Bluetooth headset, if I started reading an incoming text and decided that it was of no immediate interest, I could cancel it by pressing the button on my headset. That no longer works - it cancels the narration but the text stays on the screen. I have to actually lean forward and touch the cancel button on the screen to get rid of it. Surely this isn't by design, so they must never have tested it properly.

But they have added a little "Ok" message after you say "I'm done" having read the message. Wow, that's so cool! Umm, no it's not, just get rid of the message pronto so I can get back to the app I was on previously, which is probably the sat nav which I probably need to be following because I don't know where I'm going. Not faffing around listening to my phone going "Ok" or hitting cancel buttons on the phone while I'm driving.

It's not just Microsoft though. Between Android 4.0 and Android 4.2, someone thought it was a good idea to swap the position of the "OK" button and the "Cancel" button in the confirmation dialogue. Everyone is used to it being "Ok" on the left and "Cancel" on the right, but apparently that needed to be changed. Why? Seriously, WHY?

[gpo746]

Greg66 said:

Word 2007 is the absolute paradigm of this. Take a perfectly good product, redesign the UI to show off a ton of features MS thinks are really whizzy but no one uses, and wreck the product in the process.

Best thing I ever did was reinstalling Word 2003. Piece o' ste, that 2007 crap.

Ha.
I LOVED OFFICE 2003 !
Totally did what was required and just worked like a dream.

[xRIEx]

Greg66 said:

Word 2007 is the absolute paradigm of this. Take a perfectly good product, redesign the UI to show off a ton of features MS thinks are really whizzy but no one uses, and wreck the product in the process.

Best thing I ever did was reinstalling Word 2003. Piece o' ste, that 2007 crap.

I'd guess I use quite a lot of those features.

It took me a while to adjust to the location of everything, but 2007-onwards is much superior to 2003.

[Rawwr]

All that jazz said:

- W7 default fonts drive me up the wall.
- desktop button still annoys the hell out of me miles away on opposite side of screen
- Outlook 2010 - How is it possible to make sending and receiving emails so fking complicated?
- Access 2010 - just who the hell thought it would be good idea to make selected rows bright yellow with light blue highlighting?
- Excel 2010 - My 2003(?) Excel was perfectly happy with time format as 4 digits, but not 2010. Oh no.

I'm seriously considering going back to XP

Don't take this the wrong way or anything but you sound like a massive spastic.

[wolves_wanderer]

Eleven said:

Couple of corrections here. On one of the major WP sites 67% of respondents complained that battery life had fallen since the upgrade.

Secondly I didn't get the software free. I paid for the phone which had the software on it. It is not free, it's part of the bundle.

The battery life will settle down in a couple of days, maybe it has to do background stuff more with a brand new OS?

As for your app problems I guess it was just bad luck (not helpful I know) but on mine and my wifes Lumias we haven't had anything similar, and I'm on developer preview so get loads of updates.

[Riknos]

The title made me think of Windows 8. Such a radical change from 7, when 7 was progress from XP.
8.1 fixed a lot of 8's issues but it still an example of change for the sake of it I think!

[grumbledoak]

Riknos said:

The title made me think of Windows 8. Such a radical change from 7, when 7 was progress from XP.
8.1 fixed a lot of 8's issues but it still an example of change for the sake of it I think!

Nah. It is better

1. You cannot fit a full desktop on a phone or a tablet. No keyboard, no mouse, no screen space - something has to give. Linux has the same issue.

2. The Start Screen is way better than the Start Menu. Your choice of icons on a single screen popping up with a single keypress plus instant search for the rest. It takes half an hour to set it up, a little longer to truly 'get it', but then it is superior and the same on phone, tablet, PC.

Also they want a break from Win32 API and Intel CPUs, thus RT.

It's all a bit of a muddle right now, but it is the most promising of the three main choices.

[WinstonWolf]

Ah yes, the ribbon AKA as the File > Where the fk has that gone menu.

You know how you feel when you come back from holiday and someone has moved everything on your desk, that's how I feel about Office with the ribbon. I've got Office 2011 on the Mac and 2013 on the PC. 2011 is still far more intuitive than that god awful ribbon IMO.

[Eleven]

grumbledoak said:

Nah. It is better

1. You cannot fit a full desktop on a phone or a tablet. No keyboard, no mouse, no screen space - something has to give. Linux has the same issue.

2. The Start Screen is way better than the Start Menu. Your choice of icons on a single screen popping up with a single keypress plus instant search for the rest. It takes half an hour to set it up, a little longer to truly 'get it', but then it is superior and the same on phone, tablet, PC.

Also they want a break from Win32 API and Intel CPUs, thus RT.

It's all a bit of a muddle right now, but it is the most promising of the three main choices.

I actually think WP 8 was better than W8. I got whatever the first iteration of WP was, 7? and it was great. I really thought, "wow, this is going to improve my life" WP8 was the same but better.

When I got a PC with W8 on it, however, I thought, "wow, this crap". I haven't looked at 8.1 because 8 was so rubbish. My children are tech savvy and have learnt ITC formally since they were toddlers. Even they think 8 is cack and want me to put 7 on their machines.

When a company develops an operating system that everyone can use easily, is relatively bug free and which evolves slowly and logically they will clean up. But IT people will hate it because firstly they won't be able to feel quite so superior anymore and secondly many of them will be out of jobs. But that day will come, the opportunity is too big for it not to.

[AmitG]

grumbledoak said:

Riknos said:

The title made me think of Windows 8. Such a radical change from 7, when 7 was progress from XP.
8.1 fixed a lot of 8's issues but it still an example of change for the sake of it I think!

Nah. It is better

1. You cannot fit a full desktop on a phone or a tablet. No keyboard, no mouse, no screen space - something has to give. Linux has the same issue.

2. The Start Screen is way better than the Start Menu. Your choice of icons on a single screen popping up with a single keypress plus instant search for the rest. It takes half an hour to set it up, a little longer to truly 'get it', but then it is superior and the same on phone, tablet, PC.

Also they want a break from Win32 API and Intel CPUs, thus RT.

It's all a bit of a muddle right now, but it is the most promising of the three main choices.

I think that grumbledoak has hit the nail on the head

Of the 3 main choices, MS are currently best positioned to realise the vision of having 1 operating system and set of apps on every device from a phone to a supercomputer.

It's all a bit messy right now, with multiple ways of doing things and loads of sub-par apps, and the whole idea has become tainted because of that, but if they get it right it's going to be pretty cool.

IMHO the turning point will be if they can get Office working in Metro. They are apparently working on it, but there is no sign of it yet. OneNote is sort of there and apparently PowerPoint will be next. A few more big-name apps (Photoshop?) and people will start to "get it".

I really like the Win 8.0 start screen. I hope they build on it rather than ditching it.

[Eleven]

Okay so I have got my phone working something like normally now, though some processes have been made marginally longer than they were before.

The one thing that's still pissing me off though is when I open the calendar it doesn't open immediately. Instead there is a calendar icon for a while before the proper one opens. It used to be instantaneous.

Does anyone know how to sort this?

[wolves_wanderer]

Eleven said:

Okay so I have got my phone working something like normally now, though some processes have been made marginally longer than they were before.

The one thing that's still pissing me off though is when I open the calendar it doesn't open immediately. Instead there is a calendar icon for a while before the proper one opens. It used to be instantaneous.

Does anyone know how to sort this?

Leave it open and "multitask" back to it? In all seriousness I guess they have changed the whole app to give things like a week view [finally] so it is a bit slower from a fresh start.