Linux as a daily desktop.
Discussion
I've used Mint KDE on both my laptop and main PC workstation for two years now with no problems.
My brother isn't a computery person at all and he's also had Mint KDE on his PC for two years. He mainly uses Firefox, Amarok (MP3 player) and LibreOffice. He's never used the command line and never needed to, and I've never had to use it to fix anything for him either.
My brother isn't a computery person at all and he's also had Mint KDE on his PC for two years. He mainly uses Firefox, Amarok (MP3 player) and LibreOffice. He's never used the command line and never needed to, and I've never had to use it to fix anything for him either.
Zod said:
<snip>
Linux has never become sufficiently user-friendly for everyday use.
<snip>
I would beg to differ with you on that statement.Linux has never become sufficiently user-friendly for everyday use.
<snip>
Despite my comments in a previous post - I think it is easy to setup and use - if - the end user is not looking to run anything more than email and office apps. The problems can begin when you want to use newer hardware and expect the same configuration functionality as you get in Windows (as the OP has found).
Zod said:
OP, I agree with you completely. I have fiddled with Linux and other variants of UNIX, like Solaris and NeXTstep for 20 years. Solaris and NeXTstep were good in their day (NeXTstep, in particular), but fell by the wayside. Linux has never become sufficiently user-friendly for everyday use. I use Windows and OS X (which still has a strong residual feel of NeXTstep) all the time, only going to command line for specialised, non-every-day functions. You cannot use Linux like that.
I can't recall the last time I had to go to the command line on my rig. It may have been getting something to run under WINE correctly. I've certainly not been to the CLI this month.Doctor Volt said:
strudel commented - but imo the real reason Linux has never taken off is because everything is a royal pain in the arse.
Are you sure Linux has never taken off?
Well obviously it hasn't... don't have the figures to hand but Windows still has around 90% of the market!Are you sure Linux has never taken off?
The usual argument of Linux speeding up machines is now untrue IMO, the latest versions of Ubuntu run slower than my Windows 8 machine... and since they messed around with the UI so much I don't think it's easier to use than Windows or Mac. Microsoft have also massively improved their security, whereas open source software has had lots of critical vulnerabilities in the news (heartbleed etc).
It's a bit like claiming an old British sports car is suitable for all drivers... it might not have any major issues, but there are plenty of small niggles that would annoy the average consumer.
Used many Distro's on my "Main" laptop, Settled with OpenSUSE for a while but then got bored of their updates so moved to Mint and now using Ubuntu.
Saying that my "Main" laptop doesn't really get used now because between my Acer Chromebook and LG Chromebase I can do everything I need to do.
Saying that my "Main" laptop doesn't really get used now because between my Acer Chromebook and LG Chromebase I can do everything I need to do.
I swear the people who develop it make it deliberately difficult so they can look all superior about it.
I've got some old issues of Linux Format from 2003-ish where they're saying "we're nearly ready to have an all-out assault on the desktop". 12 years later, and we're no further forward in my opinion.
(I use a dual boot Win 7/Mint desktop, a Chromebook that's just replaced my Linux Eee PC and a Raspberry Pi)
I've got some old issues of Linux Format from 2003-ish where they're saying "we're nearly ready to have an all-out assault on the desktop". 12 years later, and we're no further forward in my opinion.
(I use a dual boot Win 7/Mint desktop, a Chromebook that's just replaced my Linux Eee PC and a Raspberry Pi)
DeuxCentCinq said:
I swear the people who develop it make it deliberately difficult so they can look all superior about it.
suicide Linux springs to mindhttp://qntm.org/suicide
Used Debian for about 6 months, I meant to install a Live CD to test a HDD but went with the full version instead and didnt get around to changing it back to Windows. TBH, cli never got used anyway, there was enough in the GUI to make it usable as is, with a bit of tweaking here and there. I think the biggest ballache I had was flash
In a corp or work environment, certain apps are only supported on Windows, so I can see why companies dont tend to run it. And the other thing was having a proper caldav server, the email clients are all much more standalone and less collaborative than you'd see with an Exchange/Outlook set up. Not that it cant be done, it's generally easier and more common to do it in Windows.
Right now I'm back to using my Mac for everything, I work from home and we're moving so all the desktop and server stuff is packed into boxes. That also works fine
I manage a few *nix servers and have dipped into a couple of desktop linux distributions over the years but always end up back at windows for day to day usage.
I like the idea of Linux on the desktop but it just hasn't happened and with the current direction of the market I don't think it ever will. Personally I'm finding I interact less and less with the OS as time goes by.
I agree for people who only want email/web it's ideal and I've set up a few simple systems to get older people online or for running things like warehouse computers and for that it's great.
Moving forward as everything gradually goes online I think there will be more scope for these simpler systems but I think it'll be geared towards android/chromebook/ios for consumers taking market share from OSX/Windows and *nix maintaining it's position of importance in servers/embedded/data processing.
I like the idea of Linux on the desktop but it just hasn't happened and with the current direction of the market I don't think it ever will. Personally I'm finding I interact less and less with the OS as time goes by.
I agree for people who only want email/web it's ideal and I've set up a few simple systems to get older people online or for running things like warehouse computers and for that it's great.
Moving forward as everything gradually goes online I think there will be more scope for these simpler systems but I think it'll be geared towards android/chromebook/ios for consumers taking market share from OSX/Windows and *nix maintaining it's position of importance in servers/embedded/data processing.
andy-xr said:
That's funny - and reminded me of a former colleague (Oracle db admin) who managed to run 'rm -rf /' on the Oracle DB server.I realised something was wrong when the DB admin turned to the sysadmin for this particular box and asked why it was taking so long to delete 'xyz' directory, at which point the sysadmin frantically hammered at his keyboard whilst turning a whiter shade of pale, killed the rm command and frantically rushed for the backup tapes. He actually managed to restore the system without the box even going down, which was quite a feat, given that a substantial amount of the root file system had been removed before the error was discovered.
Needless to say, the db Admin had his root privileges revoked sharpish!
TonyRPH said:
andy-xr said:
That's funny - and reminded me of a former colleague (Oracle db admin) who managed to run 'rm -rf /' on the Oracle DB server.I realised something was wrong when the DB admin turned to the sysadmin for this particular box and asked why it was taking so long to delete 'xyz' directory, at which point the sysadmin frantically hammered at his keyboard whilst turning a whiter shade of pale, killed the rm command and frantically rushed for the backup tapes. He actually managed to restore the system without the box even going down, which was quite a feat, given that a substantial amount of the root file system had been removed before the error was discovered.
Needless to say, the db Admin had his root privileges revoked sharpish!
I played around with Linux in the hope I could get rid of Windows for my work for a few years. Sadley GIMP is not a genuine alternative to Photoshop and the video editing software I tried was horrid. I've not seriously looked at it again for a couple years now.
There were 'fixes' for some of the video editing issues but most didn't work or were just so utterly time consuming that I decided not to even go down that route as the rest of it wasnt up to the job.
Before doing what I do now I spent years as an IT admin dealing with Windows and some Solaris and LInux boxes too. Its great for server requirements or the desktop if your a techy who has days to fiddle with it but (for what I require at least) its not a serious alternative.
The people behind Linux distros need to grasp the idea that if they want people to adopt it seriously on the desktop then there has to be better alternatives to getting stuff to work than firing up a command line and digging yourself in. At least I knew what I was doing, I'm not surprised most non techy people shy away from it. Shame really, it looked so promising a few years back.
I know this is a very narrow set of requirements compared to a lot of users but still very dissapointing.
There were 'fixes' for some of the video editing issues but most didn't work or were just so utterly time consuming that I decided not to even go down that route as the rest of it wasnt up to the job.
Before doing what I do now I spent years as an IT admin dealing with Windows and some Solaris and LInux boxes too. Its great for server requirements or the desktop if your a techy who has days to fiddle with it but (for what I require at least) its not a serious alternative.
The people behind Linux distros need to grasp the idea that if they want people to adopt it seriously on the desktop then there has to be better alternatives to getting stuff to work than firing up a command line and digging yourself in. At least I knew what I was doing, I'm not surprised most non techy people shy away from it. Shame really, it looked so promising a few years back.
I know this is a very narrow set of requirements compared to a lot of users but still very dissapointing.
neilr said:
(Linux is) great for server requirements or the desktop if your a techy who has days to fiddle with it but (for what I require at least) its not a serious alternative.
I've been using Linux as a daily desktop for over 20 years now.About 90% of my time is at the CLI. The rest with a selection of
browsers and of course LibreOffice for the spreadsheet and word
processor.
I can see that for GUI-only folks, Linux isn't that smooth, but it
is getting better.
But then, if you want industrial amounts of hand-holding,
the GUI and your processing requirements are light duty,
there's Microsoft.
Anything else, see Linux.
neilr said:
The people behind Linux distros need to grasp the idea that if they want people to adopt it seriously on the desktop then there has to be better alternatives to getting stuff to work than firing up a command line and digging yourself in. At least I knew what I was doing, I'm not surprised most non techy people shy away from it. Shame really, it looked so promising a few years back.
+1I ran Ubuntu for about a year. Kept getting a nagging message asking me to upgrade (to 14.x I think).
Clicked the button, 30 minutes later the upgrade reported my hardware was not supported by the new version and the OS was now junk.
Back on Windows 7 with a solid state drive and can't see me changing to anything else soon.
Clicked the button, 30 minutes later the upgrade reported my hardware was not supported by the new version and the OS was now junk.
Back on Windows 7 with a solid state drive and can't see me changing to anything else soon.
TonyRPH said:
I've been both a Linux and Windows systems admin for nearly 20 years now.
I first used Linux back in '94 or so, when (IIRC) the kernel version was 0.9x something and installing it was a real PITA.
I've also used Windows since before 3.11.
Over the years, I have tried the various Linux desktops, but somehow I just cannot seem to embrace them, no matter which variant, although my favourite has always been XFCE.
I currently manage a 50/50 mixed environment of Windows and Linux servers, and I can do my job so much more efficiently with a Windows desktop, despite being able to manage (via RDP) Windows servers from Linux.
Linux vs Windows always reminds me of Android vs iPhone / Windows phone.
Most Android owners are always fiddling with their phones, rooting the O/S etc. etc. however with other devices because this isn't possible, people have to stick with the default, and it all just works.
Having used Android devices in the past, I have always found something that needs tweaking. Linux desktops are the same.
I have a MacBook Pro as my home laptop, and Windows 7 as my home desktop. They are both low maintenance and "just work*".
Very well put. As servers, for some configurations they are default choice. Much easier to harden, and IMHO more secure. As desktops, Win/OSX is default choice. I first used Linux back in '94 or so, when (IIRC) the kernel version was 0.9x something and installing it was a real PITA.
I've also used Windows since before 3.11.
Over the years, I have tried the various Linux desktops, but somehow I just cannot seem to embrace them, no matter which variant, although my favourite has always been XFCE.
I currently manage a 50/50 mixed environment of Windows and Linux servers, and I can do my job so much more efficiently with a Windows desktop, despite being able to manage (via RDP) Windows servers from Linux.
Linux vs Windows always reminds me of Android vs iPhone / Windows phone.
Most Android owners are always fiddling with their phones, rooting the O/S etc. etc. however with other devices because this isn't possible, people have to stick with the default, and it all just works.
Having used Android devices in the past, I have always found something that needs tweaking. Linux desktops are the same.
I have a MacBook Pro as my home laptop, and Windows 7 as my home desktop. They are both low maintenance and "just work*".
- I know that Linux "just works" however the temptation to tweak / fiddle (and often the need to do so) makes it a PITA to manage (depending on your view of course).
OSX+BC here.
james_gt3rs said:
Doctor Volt said:
strudel commented - but imo the real reason Linux has never taken off is because everything is a royal pain in the arse.
Are you sure Linux has never taken off?
Well obviously it hasn't... don't have the figures to hand but Windows still has around 90% of the market!Are you sure Linux has never taken off?
The usual argument of Linux speeding up machines is now untrue IMO, the latest versions of Ubuntu run slower than my Windows 8 machine... and since they messed around with the UI so much I don't think it's easier to use than Windows or Mac. Microsoft have also massively improved their security, whereas open source software has had lots of critical vulnerabilities in the news (heartbleed etc).
It's a bit like claiming an old British sports car is suitable for all drivers... it might not have any major issues, but there are plenty of small niggles that would annoy the average consumer.
When we ran performance testing for FEA, Windows 7 was massively quicker than the Linux flavours that we looked at as its swap file management was vastly superior. The only advantage that Linux would currently appear to have is the upper memory limit. W7 is hard limited to 196Gb and 8 to 512Gb.
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