Discussion
SVS said:
W8PMC said:
Interested to know more ...Its ok... The picture quality is excellent, night mode not so much... the alarm is really LOUD, but it often doesn't send me updates when someone comes home and I'm not there, and occasionally it needs a reboot. Also takes a little while to settle down with false positives, but I expect most security cameras are the same.
It maybe has issues because I was one of the first adopters, but if I had to pay for it, there are now decent alternatives like the Nest (Not sure if in UK yet), Piper also looks interesting
Thanks, I'd been wondering about Nest vs. Canary vs. Piper :confusing:
Although this authoritative advice questions whether CCTV is as useful as you'd hope.
Although this authoritative advice questions whether CCTV is as useful as you'd hope.
SVS said:
Thanks, I'd been wondering about Nest vs. Canary vs. Piper :confusing:
Although this authoritative advice questions whether CCTV is as useful as you'd hope.
From that article:Although this authoritative advice questions whether CCTV is as useful as you'd hope.
for CCTV to [help prevent crime] the cameras have to be visible to the thief. If they are visible then what are the likely outcomes?
The burglar sees the CCTV cameras, is deterred and moves on to the next target
The burglar sees the CCTV cameras and takes some action to ensure that the captured images cannot identify him/her
The burglar sees the CCTV cameras and does not care that he/she might be identified later (Some burglars, especially those with addictions, take more risks)
The burglar does not see the CCTV cameras and commits the crime, which means that the cameras have not been a deterrent
Point 1 is a success for CCTV
Point 4 is a possible success for CCTV if it brings about a conviction or return of the goods
I don't see 2 out of 4 outcomes as a reason NOT to have it, even an effectiveness lower than expected is still a higher effectiveness than no camera at all
And strangely a lot of people are concerned about the red glow despite our assuring them it is a sure fire deterrent. If you ever see a CCTV camera with a flashing red led however you know it's a dummy 
Where CCTV becomes supremely successful is when communities start to work together. We have worked with a local group who over a period of time have developed a network of private systems. All the systems give over one of their cameras to the greater good and fit a high powered camera covering the road / pathway around their property. Our most powerful cameras have a genuinely effective range of up to around 75 metres so the crims don't realise they are being filmed.
If an incident occurs all members are alerted so they can check their systems. Often the vital evidence comes from some distance away from the target property. A number plate, a criminal pre or après disguise, even a thief walking in broad daylight with stolen goods!
The detection rate has been phenomenal, over 100 convictions the most lengthy of which was 3 life sentences.
Henry
Where CCTV becomes supremely successful is when communities start to work together. We have worked with a local group who over a period of time have developed a network of private systems. All the systems give over one of their cameras to the greater good and fit a high powered camera covering the road / pathway around their property. Our most powerful cameras have a genuinely effective range of up to around 75 metres so the crims don't realise they are being filmed.
If an incident occurs all members are alerted so they can check their systems. Often the vital evidence comes from some distance away from the target property. A number plate, a criminal pre or après disguise, even a thief walking in broad daylight with stolen goods!
The detection rate has been phenomenal, over 100 convictions the most lengthy of which was 3 life sentences.
Henry
OP
Got them at the house, can access live footage 24/7 from your iPhone, iMac etc.
The one on the roof is monitored as we have a lead roof which resulted in us upgrading it as some wee
stole my lead!
The app I use is Apollo, HD cameras and there is a 2TB storage unit which records everything.
These are the chaps that phone me if there's someone on the roof - http://adata.co.uk/
Got them at the house, can access live footage 24/7 from your iPhone, iMac etc.
The one on the roof is monitored as we have a lead roof which resulted in us upgrading it as some wee
stole my lead! The app I use is Apollo, HD cameras and there is a 2TB storage unit which records everything.
These are the chaps that phone me if there's someone on the roof - http://adata.co.uk/
feef said:
I have a Synology NAS which I use for local storage and a media server, however it also supports a 'Surveillance Station' app which works with IP cameras and comes with a licence for one camera as standard (can pay for additional licences for additional cameras) but that works for me as I can access my NAS from anywhere
Interested to know more. I run a DS214Play and we were recently burgled so I'm looking at compatible cameras. Which camera/model do you run? The Synology website, although very useful, is a little overwhelming when it comes to camera compatibility. Ideally I'd like to run a wired set up (via home plugs) with night vision.
A few more questions (sorry!):
-You mentioned later in the thread that you can set a max space limit for video footage on the hdd; what do you typically set this at and how much footage does that give you?
-If using connectivity via WiFi, how stable is the connection? Do you experience many drop outs?
-Any other things I should be aware of when buying and/or running a camera?
Thanks in advance.
dub16v said:
feef said:
I have a Synology NAS which I use for local storage and a media server, however it also supports a 'Surveillance Station' app which works with IP cameras and comes with a licence for one camera as standard (can pay for additional licences for additional cameras) but that works for me as I can access my NAS from anywhere
Interested to know more. I run a DS214Play and we were recently burgled so I'm looking at compatible cameras. Which camera/model do you run? The Synology website, although very useful, is a little overwhelming when it comes to camera compatibility. Ideally I'd like to run a wired set up (via home plugs) with night vision.
A few more questions (sorry!):
-You mentioned later in the thread that you can set a max space limit for video footage on the hdd; what do you typically set this at and how much footage does that give you?
-If using connectivity via WiFi, how stable is the connection? Do you experience many drop outs?
-Any other things I should be aware of when buying and/or running a camera?
Thanks in advance.
My dad also uses a wifi camera on his Synology to monitor their house in France, and likewise, we're not aware of any issues in drop outs
I have an 'Amovision' wifi camera, it's nothing special but does the job. The only problem is that the image appears rotated through 90 degrees for some reason. I don't know if that's a problem with these cameras, whether the sensor was inserted incorrectly or something to do with drivers, but I can live with it and, when I get a round-tuit, I'll probably rotate the sensor within the camera
The only 'complaint' I have about this camera over the old, wired 12v RGB camera system I had before, is that the cheap Amovision only has two IR LEDs whereas the old one had about a dozen so low light vision isn't quite as good, but where it's covering has an ambient light sensing light so is on when it's dark anyway, so I'm not too fussed
dub16v said:
Which camera/model do you run? The Synology website, although very useful, is a little overwhelming when it comes to camera compatibility.
I have tested a couple, http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/ are available on Ebay for less thah £100, I have been testing both for home and work with a Synology NAS. Works great, I set to only record on motion detection, full HD etc... My only incident so far is a neighbours dog taking a dump on the path right outside my house. I emailed them the picture!
feef said:
Henry-F said:
Be careful using a network storage device as the basis for your CCTV system. The NAS isn't designed to run 24/7 and the hard drive won't expect to be filled to capacity then constantly over written which is what happens with CCTV. Premature failure is not always ideal !
Eh!??NAS is designed to run 24/7, I've never heard of a NAS that's designed to be turned on and off throughout the day, how could I use it's remote cloud backup facility if it wasn't on 24/7?
The one I have has 4 disks in RAID 5 with 8Tb of space, comes with mail-server, web-server, VPN server and other systems which are designed to be on 24/7, and the surveillance station software has a setting that allows you to control the disk quota for the app so it never fills up the disk
See my reply further up the thread.
People are talking about having computers on all the time in order for their IP based systems to work. Maybe they are just setting things up incorrectly but I still maintain a totally stand alone CCTV system which has no impact on your computer or network storage device is preferable to avoid the risk of extra strain and work loads. As has been pointed out already on multi camera systems it may also be the cheapest option like for like.
We also suggest 24/7 image capture rather than motion only. By all means bookmark potentially important footage using motion triggering but a serious system needs 24/7 footage. Trigger patches for motion should be relatively small to minimise false triggers.
100GB of hard drive space won't go far on a HD CCTV system with a few cameras. We would suggest somewhere in the order of 500GB per camera. Our most common HDD sizes at the moment are 2TB in a 4 CH recorder, 3TB in an 8 CH recorder and that gives about 24 days rolling footage in the 4 CH, 18 days in the 8 CH at 6 frames per second with all cameras connected recording in 1080P.
The caveat I would add to all this is that we are striving towards CCTV systems which cover the outside of properties and give a genuine chance of identification should something happen. Typical distances for most systems are in the 2-20 metre range with our maximum realistic distance about 75 metres. If all you need is a metre or 2 from the camera then pretty much any HD camera will do the job.
I know our solutions work. A local group we have worked with have over 100 convictions, the most serious of which was a 3 life sentence conviction. We are keen advocates of communities grouping together to pool information after an incident but this can only be achieved with equipment capable of monitoring roads and pavements outside people's homes as well as the homes themselves.
What has disappointed me is seeing all the old tricks used in the equipment linked to on here. There's some great looking gear, lovely modern websites, wonderful claims but in pretty much every instance the supposed footage is taken by a professional using a digital SLR camera and an expensive lens. It is not footage from the equipment being sold. In my other life as a car dealer this would land you in prison. For some reason in the world of CCTV is common place and ignored.
I'm quite passionate about the subject because I came into CCTV from the perspective of a disappointed customer. I struggled to equate what I bought to the promotional material. I'm keen to help people understand what will and won't work for their specific requirements. That's hard when the industry is awash with lies and false advertising material to the point where it becomes the norm.
Henry
People are talking about having computers on all the time in order for their IP based systems to work. Maybe they are just setting things up incorrectly but I still maintain a totally stand alone CCTV system which has no impact on your computer or network storage device is preferable to avoid the risk of extra strain and work loads. As has been pointed out already on multi camera systems it may also be the cheapest option like for like.
We also suggest 24/7 image capture rather than motion only. By all means bookmark potentially important footage using motion triggering but a serious system needs 24/7 footage. Trigger patches for motion should be relatively small to minimise false triggers.
100GB of hard drive space won't go far on a HD CCTV system with a few cameras. We would suggest somewhere in the order of 500GB per camera. Our most common HDD sizes at the moment are 2TB in a 4 CH recorder, 3TB in an 8 CH recorder and that gives about 24 days rolling footage in the 4 CH, 18 days in the 8 CH at 6 frames per second with all cameras connected recording in 1080P.
The caveat I would add to all this is that we are striving towards CCTV systems which cover the outside of properties and give a genuine chance of identification should something happen. Typical distances for most systems are in the 2-20 metre range with our maximum realistic distance about 75 metres. If all you need is a metre or 2 from the camera then pretty much any HD camera will do the job.
I know our solutions work. A local group we have worked with have over 100 convictions, the most serious of which was a 3 life sentence conviction. We are keen advocates of communities grouping together to pool information after an incident but this can only be achieved with equipment capable of monitoring roads and pavements outside people's homes as well as the homes themselves.
What has disappointed me is seeing all the old tricks used in the equipment linked to on here. There's some great looking gear, lovely modern websites, wonderful claims but in pretty much every instance the supposed footage is taken by a professional using a digital SLR camera and an expensive lens. It is not footage from the equipment being sold. In my other life as a car dealer this would land you in prison. For some reason in the world of CCTV is common place and ignored.
I'm quite passionate about the subject because I came into CCTV from the perspective of a disappointed customer. I struggled to equate what I bought to the promotional material. I'm keen to help people understand what will and won't work for their specific requirements. That's hard when the industry is awash with lies and false advertising material to the point where it becomes the norm.
Henry
BGARK said:
I have tested a couple, http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/ are available on Ebay for less thah £100, I have been testing both for home and work with a Synology NAS. Works great, I set to only record on motion detection, full HD etc...
My only incident so far is a neighbours dog taking a dump on the path right outside my house. I emailed them the picture!
That's great, appreciate your help. My only incident so far is a neighbours dog taking a dump on the path right outside my house. I emailed them the picture!
I've been looking at this model (http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIKVISION-DS-2CD2032-1-Night-Bullet-Camera/dp/B00G7GMEOG/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8) - do you usually have to purchase an extra power cable with these cameras? Is the hole that you have to drill usually very big? (I've read that some include a myriad of cables that involves boring a hole 1" in diameter!) I'd like to mount to an external wall and pass the power/ethernet cable to a wired supply if possible.
Magic919 said:
It's usual to use power over ethernet to the Hikvision. You can buy a device to add power (PoE) to your single cable or add a new network switch with PoE.
This is getting complicated (to me!) Any advice on which PoE I'd need with the above model? Thanks once again. Just installed Surveillance Station and checking options in the Help system to give me a flavour for what is/isn't possible.
Edit: I'm running the following home plugs: http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-plv-200av-p...
Edited by dub16v on Friday 4th December 09:25
It's ok as PoE just follows a few standards. I've got something like this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Injector-Supply-Ethernet-A...
There are other packages if the plug-top PSU style doesn't suit you.
There are other packages if the plug-top PSU style doesn't suit you.
SVS said:
Interested to know more ...
For me the advantages are the simplicity. You can connect up to 5 Camera's & tbh they look more like speakers than cameras so although not small, they're certainly discreet. They know when the occupants leave/arrive so arm/disarm automatically & you get notifications immediately on your mobiles if the camera/s are activated.I think of it as the Sonos of CCTV as it's so intuitive & simple to setup/use.
I got mine off Amazon. Floureon was the brand I think.
Two 1200 line cams, extension cables and 4chan network DVR for 110 delivered.
Had to run cat5 to the DVR through the roof, and drill two mounts for each camera (tiny, but get agent approval first of course). Provided own HDD for DVR.
Works pretty damn well for the price. Also has the online service for remote monitoring, which really does it job.
Two 1200 line cams, extension cables and 4chan network DVR for 110 delivered.
Had to run cat5 to the DVR through the roof, and drill two mounts for each camera (tiny, but get agent approval first of course). Provided own HDD for DVR.
Works pretty damn well for the price. Also has the online service for remote monitoring, which really does it job.
dub16v said:
BGARK said:
I have tested a couple, http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/ are available on Ebay for less thah £100, I have been testing both for home and work with a Synology NAS. Works great, I set to only record on motion detection, full HD etc...
My only incident so far is a neighbours dog taking a dump on the path right outside my house. I emailed them the picture!
That's great, appreciate your help. My only incident so far is a neighbours dog taking a dump on the path right outside my house. I emailed them the picture!
I've been looking at this model (http://www.amazon.co.uk/HIKVISION-DS-2CD2032-1-Night-Bullet-Camera/dp/B00G7GMEOG/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8) - do you usually have to purchase an extra power cable with these cameras? Is the hole that you have to drill usually very big? (I've read that some include a myriad of cables that involves boring a hole 1" in diameter!) I'd like to mount to an external wall and pass the power/ethernet cable to a wired supply if possible.
dub16v said:
Is the hole that you have to drill usually very big?
Only holes needed large enough for the transformer power cable and ethernet. Nothing larger than 10mm usually needed. do a neat job then when finished apply some silicon sealant or similar into the hole. Or if in a panel use a rubber grommet.Henry-F said:
See my reply further up the thread.
People are talking about having computers on all the time in order for their IP based systems to work. Maybe they are just setting things up incorrectly but I still maintain a totally stand alone CCTV system which has no impact on your computer or network storage device is preferable to avoid the risk of extra strain and work loads. As has been pointed out already on multi camera systems it may also be the cheapest option like for like.
We also suggest 24/7 image capture rather than motion only. By all means bookmark potentially important footage using motion triggering but a serious system needs 24/7 footage. Trigger patches for motion should be relatively small to minimise false triggers.
100GB of hard drive space won't go far on a HD CCTV system with a few cameras. We would suggest somewhere in the order of 500GB per camera. Our most common HDD sizes at the moment are 2TB in a 4 CH recorder, 3TB in an 8 CH recorder and that gives about 24 days rolling footage in the 4 CH, 18 days in the 8 CH at 6 frames per second with all cameras connected recording in 1080P.
The caveat I would add to all this is that we are striving towards CCTV systems which cover the outside of properties and give a genuine chance of identification should something happen. Typical distances for most systems are in the 2-20 metre range with our maximum realistic distance about 75 metres. If all you need is a metre or 2 from the camera then pretty much any HD camera will do the job.
I know our solutions work. A local group we have worked with have over 100 convictions, the most serious of which was a 3 life sentence conviction. We are keen advocates of communities grouping together to pool information after an incident but this can only be achieved with equipment capable of monitoring roads and pavements outside people's homes as well as the homes themselves.
What has disappointed me is seeing all the old tricks used in the equipment linked to on here. There's some great looking gear, lovely modern websites, wonderful claims but in pretty much every instance the supposed footage is taken by a professional using a digital SLR camera and an expensive lens. It is not footage from the equipment being sold. In my other life as a car dealer this would land you in prison. For some reason in the world of CCTV is common place and ignored.
I'm quite passionate about the subject because I came into CCTV from the perspective of a disappointed customer. I struggled to equate what I bought to the promotional material. I'm keen to help people understand what will and won't work for their specific requirements. That's hard when the industry is awash with lies and false advertising material to the point where it becomes the norm.
Henry
The dedicated CCTV system I had before I started using the Synology used a hard-drive, and when I opened it up, it wasn't any special sort of hard drive, so I'm not sure what the difference is.People are talking about having computers on all the time in order for their IP based systems to work. Maybe they are just setting things up incorrectly but I still maintain a totally stand alone CCTV system which has no impact on your computer or network storage device is preferable to avoid the risk of extra strain and work loads. As has been pointed out already on multi camera systems it may also be the cheapest option like for like.
We also suggest 24/7 image capture rather than motion only. By all means bookmark potentially important footage using motion triggering but a serious system needs 24/7 footage. Trigger patches for motion should be relatively small to minimise false triggers.
100GB of hard drive space won't go far on a HD CCTV system with a few cameras. We would suggest somewhere in the order of 500GB per camera. Our most common HDD sizes at the moment are 2TB in a 4 CH recorder, 3TB in an 8 CH recorder and that gives about 24 days rolling footage in the 4 CH, 18 days in the 8 CH at 6 frames per second with all cameras connected recording in 1080P.
The caveat I would add to all this is that we are striving towards CCTV systems which cover the outside of properties and give a genuine chance of identification should something happen. Typical distances for most systems are in the 2-20 metre range with our maximum realistic distance about 75 metres. If all you need is a metre or 2 from the camera then pretty much any HD camera will do the job.
I know our solutions work. A local group we have worked with have over 100 convictions, the most serious of which was a 3 life sentence conviction. We are keen advocates of communities grouping together to pool information after an incident but this can only be achieved with equipment capable of monitoring roads and pavements outside people's homes as well as the homes themselves.
What has disappointed me is seeing all the old tricks used in the equipment linked to on here. There's some great looking gear, lovely modern websites, wonderful claims but in pretty much every instance the supposed footage is taken by a professional using a digital SLR camera and an expensive lens. It is not footage from the equipment being sold. In my other life as a car dealer this would land you in prison. For some reason in the world of CCTV is common place and ignored.
I'm quite passionate about the subject because I came into CCTV from the perspective of a disappointed customer. I struggled to equate what I bought to the promotional material. I'm keen to help people understand what will and won't work for their specific requirements. That's hard when the industry is awash with lies and false advertising material to the point where it becomes the norm.
Henry
What storage media do most CCTV systems use if not hard drive?
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