Apple bricking iPhones that have been 3rd party repaired

[Bikerjon]

jamoor said:

They are legally obliged to too.

Who are? Apple or car manufacturers?

Getting authorised repair status isn't trivial and requires significant investment. There is "lock-in" here that doesn't compare to car parts supply. That said, I suppose there's still some jobs that only a main dealer can offer.

If this is the shape of things to come then it could either force 3rd party repairers to stop touching Apple kit or maybe it will make Apple open up the parts supply chain. I hope it's the second option but somehow I doubt it!

[George111]

plasticpig said:

otolith said:

I wouldn't buy a very expensive piece of consumer electronics if I couldn't afford either to insure it against accidental damage or to pay to get it fixed properly myself. Just like I wouldn't buy an expensive car I couldn't afford to repair properly and have it bodged by a garage (which, for example, didn't know that it had to pair the immobilizer and ECU). If the phone has been repaired by an independent which knows the correct procedure, there won't be a problem, will there?

I think the fact that hardly anyone hands over the face value of the things leads people to forget that they've got a significantly expensive bit of kit in their pocket.

As I understand it Apple won't supply spares to unauthorized repairers. Most (if not all) car manufacturers will supply their parts to anyone who wants them.

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Search on the Apple site for authorised repair centres, there are loads of them, plenty of choice.

[jimmyjimjim]

George111 said:

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Search on the Apple site for authorised repair centres, there are loads of them, plenty of choice.

The difference being of course that if you put an unauthorized key(lets be more realistic here - a door lock mechanism)into your car, it doesn't automatically weld the doors shut at once and prevent the engine ever starting again.

The manufacturer doesn't then refuse to open the doors or fix any part of the car because there's an unrelated unauthorized part installed, even if you pay them.

They don't then insist that you buy a new car as the only resolution.

[Dodsy]

Interesting thread as my wife has cracked her Iphone 6 screen. Back street repair is actually £5 more expensive than a genuine apple one! No brainer really - Just told my Mrs to book a slot at the apple store then she can drop phone in and do some shopping while she is in town.

[Jonesy23]

George111 said:

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Not exactly correct. For the stuff I've looked at you can buy the proper programming kit as would be supplied to an official dealer. You can freely download the software to use with it, and the calibrations direct from the manufacturer. In some cases you will need to get the system to 'phone home' to get the keys to complete the programming to try to maintain security. Subscriptions may be involved.

Or you can buy the non-legitimate programming kit which will achieve a similar outcome for things like key programming.

[Tycho]

George111 said:

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Search on the Apple site for authorised repair centres, there are loads of them, plenty of choice.

Another Apple fan putting a completely different situation into the mix.

It would be accurate to say that the ECU would be changed and the car working identically to the way it originally was and then the manufacturer deciding that it doesn't want the third party parts in the car and disabling it completely with no warning. The iPhone 5 will still work with a non-approved touch id but all the touch id functions are disabled. Why isn't this done for the 6 or at least done the same way on the 5?

If Google or Sony did this to my Android phone then they'd never see another pound of my money but Apple fans put up with and excuse the inexcusable.

[plasticpig]

George111 said:

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Search on the Apple site for authorised repair centres, there are loads of them, plenty of choice.

Depends on the car. My Jag will code keys without a computer system. Anyway my independent specialist has all the kit to do this and charges £50 an hour rather than £100+ for main dealer. There isn't plenty of choice is you live out in the sticks.

[klootzak]

Gosh, it appears that the haterzz are so keen to see some kind of bizarre corporate conspiracy here they've completely forgotten Hanlon's Razor.

The whole "Error 53" thing looks a great deal like incompetence to me rather than malice. For a start off, it's a very un-Apple way to express such a significant event (the bricking of a device), then consider that the error isn't documented anywhere. Once again, hardly in Apple's general MO.

To me it looks like an unexpected (and clearly untested) consequence of the iOS9 upgrade that stands as proof that QC in Apple's software development has been pretty slack since Jobs died.

Add to this the fact that it's culturally impossible to admit to errors at Apple (in fairness, they're hardly unique in this regard), and you get the kind of unconvincing squirming that we've heard.

Both iOS9 and OSX Mavericks/El Capitain have been very shoddy developments by Apple's standards, riddled with bugs and problems that should have been ironed out long before release (and almost certainly would have in Jobs' day).

Sadly, Apple is now run by accountants and supply-chain wonks, and with its toxic internal culture this kind of thing will become more and more common.

k

[essayer]

I wonder if Apple ever test iOS code on a handset which has had the hardware replaced in this way. Might be a bit of an edge case.
OTOH wouldn't something like this have come up in the betas?

[otolith]

Tycho said:

Why isn't this done for the 6 or at least done the same way on the 5?

I would imagine it's because the iPhone 5 does not support Apple Pay so there is somewhat less at stake if your stolen phone is compromised.

[otolith]

essayer said:

I wonder if Apple ever test iOS code on a handset which has had the hardware replaced in this way. Might be a bit of an edge case.

"Will this security update cause problems on phones with a bodged amateur repair?" Yep, edge.

[George111]

Jonesy23 said:

George111 said:

Car manufacturers will supply you with an ECU but not the means to code it to keys, they will also sell you blank keys but you need their computer system to activate them to your ECU. Same with fuel injectors in some cases.

Not exactly correct. For the stuff I've looked at you can buy the proper programming kit as would be supplied to an official dealer. You can freely download the software to use with it, and the calibrations direct from the manufacturer. In some cases you will need to get the system to 'phone home' to get the keys to complete the programming to try to maintain security. Subscriptions may be involved.

Or you can buy the non-legitimate programming kit which will achieve a similar outcome for things like key programming.

So they have to buy the right kit, have a subscription service and still "phone home" - sounds like an authorised repairer to me.

[jmorgan]

Looks like the lawyers are getting involved.

If they rate the security, as I understand the way this is integrated, can they not disable the feature rather than break it?


They have been getting a tad controlling in recent years.

[Tycho]

klootzak said:

Gosh, it appears that the haterzz are so keen to see some kind of bizarre corporate conspiracy here they've completely forgotten Hanlon's Razor.

The whole "Error 53" thing looks a great deal like incompetence to me rather than malice. For a start off, it's a very un-Apple way to express such a significant event (the bricking of a device), then consider that the error isn't documented anywhere. Once again, hardly in Apple's general MO.

To me it looks like an unexpected (and clearly untested) consequence of the iOS9 upgrade that stands as proof that QC in Apple's software development has been pretty slack since Jobs died.

Add to this the fact that it's culturally impossible to admit to errors at Apple (in fairness, they're hardly unique in this regard), and you get the kind of unconvincing squirming that we've heard.

Both iOS9 and OSX Mavericks/El Capitain have been very shoddy developments by Apple's standards, riddled with bugs and problems that should have been ironed out long before release (and almost certainly would have in Jobs' day).

Sadly, Apple is now run by accountants and supply-chain wonks, and with its toxic internal culture this kind of thing will become more and more common.

k

I'm pretty sure Apple themselves have confirmed that this is a security feature and does happen when the touch id has been replaced by a non Apple store.

[thatsprettyshady]

I'm convinced the card companies have had a hand in this.


Perhap a threat from the big three card processors and Apple have been forced to take swift action, personally knowing what VISA/AMEX/Mastercard are like when it comes to security/minimising chances of fraud (i work with card machines all day which y regularly brick themselves when you drop them due to tamper protection) they will be keen to absolve themselves of any blame or responsibility when cloning does happen, my uneducated guess is Apple have had to implement this measure ASAP before the chargeback costs for fraud get moved onto them.

[marshalla]

Tycho said:

I'm pretty sure Apple themselves have confirmed that this is a security feature and does happen when the touch id has been replaced by a non Apple store.

They have, now - after it started happening. They didn't warn anyone that they were going to do it.

[wibble cb]

the simple way to avoid this is surely to appreciate that you have a not inexpensive piece of kit in your pocket and treat it accordingly, I am on iphone number 3 (had a 3S, 4, and now a 5C), the only issue I ever had was a failed battery on the 4, I was careful with each of the phones, always had them in cases, and never actually dropped one or buggered one up. I guess some owners are not so careful...

[jmorgan]

^^^^^
Insurance companies would not exist if we were all that careful.....

[bad company]

marshalla said:

Tycho said:

I'm pretty sure Apple themselves have confirmed that this is a security feature and does happen when the touch id has been replaced by a non Apple store.

They have, now - after it started happening. They didn't warn anyone that they were going to do it.

Resulting in millions of IPhone users losing not only their phones but also potentially precious data - photographs etc.

Looks like the lawyers are preparing a class action:-

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/08/ap...

[George111]

bad company said:

marshalla said:

Tycho said:

I'm pretty sure Apple themselves have confirmed that this is a security feature and does happen when the touch id has been replaced by a non Apple store.

They have, now - after it started happening. They didn't warn anyone that they were going to do it.

Resulting in millions of IPhone users losing not only their phones but also potentially precious data - photographs etc.

Looks like the lawyers are preparing a class action:-

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/08/ap...

Millions ? Lets not exaggerate

And they won't have lost their data - it will all be in iCloud and will be installed in a new iPhone by Apple free of charge. Even all the txt messages will come back, all the apps, all the photos and videos and documents if you have any. It's one reason the iPhone is so poplar.