Apple bricking iPhones that have been 3rd party repaired

Friday 19th February 2016

Leithen said:

What continues to surprise me is the apparent complete lack of middle ground when is comes to all things Apple.

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

Back in the early 90's I was at an IT conference in the US and the lap top on which the Powerpoint presentation was running froze. Suddenly all these nasally Americans started calling out "Ged a Mac! Ged a Mac!". I was quite startled. At that point I'd only ever seen Macs in the marketing dept of a corporation or in a publishing house where they'd be wall to wall. But I'd never heard the word "Apple" mentioned in the context of my (coporate IT) work. But these geeks were seriously Apple-centric. It was my first brush with the cult.

Years later my wife, who worked in publishing, bought me an iPod. I genuinely didn't know what it was but all he trendy colleagues had them so she thought I'd want one. TBH the whole experience was a massive PITA for me. It needed a Firewire connection or something (I had to buy a very expensive PC to Apple connector) and then it wouldn't work with the version of Windows I had (sigh). Then I ripped a load of my favourite mix CD's and it separated all the tracks out. And them I couldn't actually store the things in a high-enough bit-rate to equate to my CD Walkman. And the battery life was sh*t. And the battery died and so did the iPod. I was a year into my Apple journey and not having a good time.

But, back to today, many of the Mums and Dads at my kids' schools work in publishing or media and they are total Apple heads. Macs, Apple TV, iPads, iPhones, the lot. And the Mums, when asked about which phone to give the kids just think "iPhone". Horrifies me - why would I want to spend all that on a kid's phone (!!?).

I use a 16gb iPhone 5 (I think) given to me by work and it's OK but the screen is tiny and the storage is always full. My wife was give an 8GB iPhone something-or-other and the OS took up most of that - it was seriously useless and caused me serious grief for a whole two years (as I become IT support in this house for anything IT-related it wasa real pain).

I've now given her a Moto X Play with a big screen and tons of storage and she's really really happy. And it only cost me £200 so I'm happy too.

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought in. One of the world's most successful and profitable businesses. I'm just too mean to pay the premium.

Edited by AC43 on Friday 19th February 14:58

5,309 posts

150 months

Friday 19th February 2016

AC43 said:

Leithen said:

What continues to surprise me is the apparent complete lack of middle ground when is comes to all things Apple.

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

Back in the early 90's I was at an IT conference in the US and the lap top on which the Powerpoint presentation was running froze. Suddenly all these nasally Americans started calling out "Ged a Mac! Ged a Mac!". I was quite startled. At that point I'd only ever seen Macs in the marketing dept of a corporation or in a publishing house where they'd be wall to wall. But I'd never heard the word "Apple" mentioned in the context of my (coporate IT) work. But these geeks were seriously Apple-centric. It was my first brush with the cult.

Years later my wife, who worked in publishing, bought me an iPod. I genuinely didn't know what it was but all he trendy colleagues had them so she thought I'd want one. TBH the whole experience was a massive PITA for me. It needed a Firewire connection or something (I had to buy a very expensive PC to Apple connector) and then it wouldn't work with the version of Windows I had (sigh). Then I ripped a load of my favourite mix CD's and it separated all the tracks out. And them I couldn't actually store the things in a high-enough bit-rate to equate to my CD Walkman. And the battery life was sh*t. And the battery died and so did the iPod. I was a year into my Apple journey and not having a good time.

But, back to today, many of the Mums and Dads at my kids' schools work in publishing or media and they are total Apple heads. Macs, Apple TV, iPads, iPhones, the lot. And the Mums, when asked about which phone to give the kids just think "iPhone". Horrifies me - why would I want to spend all that on a kid's phone (!!?).

I use a 16gb iPhone 5 (I think) given to me by work and it's OK but the screen is tiny and the storage is always full. My wife was give an 8GB iPhone something-or-other and the OS took up most of that - it was seriously useless and caused me serious grief for a whole two years (as I become IT support in this house for anything IT-related it wasa real pain).

I've now given her a Moto X Play with a big screen and tons of storage and she's really really happy. And it only cost me £200 so I'm happy too.

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought it.

You'll probably box me as fanboi for this but while your first example has merit, the following two just sound like the wrong product for the solution required. If both iPhones had bigger storage then you wouldn't have had the number issues with it. I have to say I don't know why the iPhones come with such small storage for the cheap ones, it does make them virtually unusable unless you fully sign up to Apple's iCloud services.

I have mostly apple kit (2010 Macbook Pro, iPhone 6, iPad Mini, AppleTV 4 and the wife has an iPhone 6 and an iPad Mini). The thing is I've been an apple user since 1986 and an Apple IIc my Mum bought to work from home. I've had my ups and downs with them but more ups and than downs and in 30 years I've had so little technical dramas with it all it keeps me coming back for more.

So yeah maybe I am am an Apple Fanboi. Before the invention of the iPod I was always a Sony nut when it came to personal music players having numerous cassette, then CD and then MD walkmans. I even shunned the iPod in favour of a Sony MP3 player. If you think iTunes is a mess you should try the Sony effort! Jeez that was horrible. In the end I went iPod because someone bought me one and now? Well it's my phone.

There ar eplenty of other brands I covet. Denon for my sound kit at home, Mazda for MX5s, Sony for Games consoles (Was Sega before the PS1 blew me away) and Lego is my chosen brand of childrens assembly blocks. It just seems these days that if you like apple products and recommend them to people you're some sort of slave to the brand, you've been brain washed by marketing and you're clearly not computer literate. I remember when you recommended Apple products and everyone thought you were crazy for buying from a firm that was clearly going to fail for not being Windows compatible.

ZesPak

24,430 posts

196 months

Friday 19th February 2016

HorneyMX5 said:

I remember when you recommended Apple products and everyone thought you were crazy for buying from a firm that was clearly going to fail for not being Windows compatible.

And then it did. And MS bailed them out,

So other people were right about Apple back then, maybe they are right now?

There are almost no occasions where I would think: you know what, product X from Apple would be perfect for the job, better than product Y which costs 30% less. It's almost always the reverse, they are very expensive products used by people who usually do very little with them so that they don't see the walls they're inside. There are exceptions to this of course, but in general it's just not looking any further and following the pack.

Don't get me wrong, they're ok products. But the Apple tax is very, very real.

AC43

11,488 posts

208 months

Friday 19th February 2016

HorneyMX5 said:

AC43 said:

Leithen said:

What continues to surprise me is the apparent complete lack of middle ground when is comes to all things Apple.

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

Back in the early 90's I was at an IT conference in the US and the lap top on which the Powerpoint presentation was running froze. Suddenly all these nasally Americans started calling out "Ged a Mac! Ged a Mac!". I was quite startled. At that point I'd only ever seen Macs in the marketing dept of a corporation or in a publishing house where they'd be wall to wall. But I'd never heard the word "Apple" mentioned in the context of my (coporate IT) work. But these geeks were seriously Apple-centric. It was my first brush with the cult.

Years later my wife, who worked in publishing, bought me an iPod. I genuinely didn't know what it was but all he trendy colleagues had them so she thought I'd want one. TBH the whole experience was a massive PITA for me. It needed a Firewire connection or something (I had to buy a very expensive PC to Apple connector) and then it wouldn't work with the version of Windows I had (sigh). Then I ripped a load of my favourite mix CD's and it separated all the tracks out. And them I couldn't actually store the things in a high-enough bit-rate to equate to my CD Walkman. And the battery life was sh*t. And the battery died and so did the iPod. I was a year into my Apple journey and not having a good time.

But, back to today, many of the Mums and Dads at my kids' schools work in publishing or media and they are total Apple heads. Macs, Apple TV, iPads, iPhones, the lot. And the Mums, when asked about which phone to give the kids just think "iPhone". Horrifies me - why would I want to spend all that on a kid's phone (!!?).

I use a 16gb iPhone 5 (I think) given to me by work and it's OK but the screen is tiny and the storage is always full. My wife was give an 8GB iPhone something-or-other and the OS took up most of that - it was seriously useless and caused me serious grief for a whole two years (as I become IT support in this house for anything IT-related it wasa real pain).

I've now given her a Moto X Play with a big screen and tons of storage and she's really really happy. And it only cost me £200 so I'm happy too.

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought it.

You'll probably box me as fanboi for this but while your first example has merit, the following two just sound like the wrong product for the solution required. If both iPhones had bigger storage then you wouldn't have had the number issues with it. I have to say I don't know why the iPhones come with such small storage for the cheap ones, it does make them virtually unusable unless you fully sign up to Apple's iCloud services.

I have mostly apple kit (2010 Macbook Pro, iPhone 6, iPad Mini, AppleTV 4 and the wife has an iPhone 6 and an iPad Mini). The thing is I've been an apple user since 1986 and an Apple IIc my Mum bought to work from home. I've had my ups and downs with them but more ups and than downs and in 30 years I've had so little technical dramas with it all it keeps me coming back for more.

So yeah maybe I am am an Apple Fanboi. Before the invention of the iPod I was always a Sony nut when it came to personal music players having numerous cassette, then CD and then MD walkmans. I even shunned the iPod in favour of a Sony MP3 player. If you think iTunes is a mess you should try the Sony effort! Jeez that was horrible. In the end I went iPod because someone bought me one and now? Well it's my phone.

There ar eplenty of other brands I covet. Denon for my sound kit at home, Mazda for MX5s, Sony for Games consoles (Was Sega before the PS1 blew me away) and Lego is my chosen brand of childrens assembly blocks. It just seems these days that if you like apple products and recommend them to people you're some sort of slave to the brand, you've been brain washed by marketing and you're clearly not computer literate. I remember when you recommended Apple products and everyone thought you were crazy for buying from a firm that was clearly going to fail for not being Windows compatible.

I wouldn't call you a fanboi - that's a very considered response and to be fair I at one point went down the Nomad MP3 player route and the software on that also tried to break up mix CD's. I guess the developers didn't go clubbing much.....

And I've been a major Nokia user and even more so Blackberry and they built their own walled gardens as I found to my cost when I moved suppplier. In fact Nokia=>Blackberry=>Android=>Apple for my work phone has, at each switch, been a ballache.

And yes the iPod was the wrong product for me. And yes I needed iPhones with more memory. All fair points.

And I have indeed bought Apple products with my own money - iPads mini for the kids, for example, and they are fine

My personal conclusion, in 2016 anyway, is that Android has recently come of age and Google continues to spend building cool things that I can use for free so I'm off over there for the forseeable future.

Maybe the lock-in is much more subtle? It's certainly cheaper.

5,309 posts

150 months

Friday 19th February 2016

ZesPak said:

And then it did. And MS bailed them out,

So other people were right about Apple back then, maybe they are right now?

There are almost no occasions where I would think: you know what, product X from Apple would be perfect for the job, better than product Y which costs 30% less. It's almost always the reverse, they are very expensive products used by people who usually do very little with them so that they don't see the walls they're inside. There are exceptions to this of course, but in general it's just not looking any further and following the pack.

Don't get me wrong, they're ok products. But the Apple tax is very, very real.

The bit in bold. Lets take the ever moaned about iPhone and iOS. It is a telephone, text message client, portable media player, payment method, internet connected app running device. That's what it does. Now for 99.99% of the population it does all of these things perfectly well, in fact brilliantly. I would argue that well over 90% of iPhone users use all or most of those major functions of the device. The fact it is expensive is not really true anymore, there are plenty of like for like "premium" android devices out there. But we can take cost out of it, it's not relevant to the bit I highlighted.

So explain to me the functions of this device that it does not do that all those iPhone users would do if they had an Android or Windows phone? I'm not trying to pick an argument. I am genuinely interested, as an iPhone user, what everyday functionality I am missing out on?

Leithen

10,897 posts

267 months

Friday 19th February 2016

AC43 said:

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

........

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought in. One of the world's most successful and profitable businesses. I'm just too mean to pay the premium.

I'd simply argue that they make good products that a lot of people are very happy with. Their customer satisfaction scores back this up - not over a short time period, but a long one, which suggests that people really do genuinely like them.

It's not as if they were the only PC or Smartphone manufacturer in the world.

Credit where credit is due, and could they please stop Safari continually f

king beachballing on my brand new shiny iMac.... furious

Munter

31,319 posts

241 months

Friday 19th February 2016

HorneyMX5 said:

ZesPak said:

And then it did. And MS bailed them out,

So other people were right about Apple back then, maybe they are right now?

There are almost no occasions where I would think: you know what, product X from Apple would be perfect for the job, better than product Y which costs 30% less. It's almost always the reverse, they are very expensive products used by people who usually do very little with them so that they don't see the walls they're inside. There are exceptions to this of course, but in general it's just not looking any further and following the pack.

Don't get me wrong, they're ok products. But the Apple tax is very, very real.

The bit in bold. Lets take the ever moaned about iPhone and iOS. It is a telephone, text message client, portable media player, payment method, internet connected app running device. That's what it does. Now for 99.99% of the population it does all of these things perfectly well, in fact brilliantly. I would argue that well over 90% of iPhone users use all or most of those major functions of the device. The fact it is expensive is not really true anymore, there are plenty of like for like "premium" android devices out there. But we can take cost out of it, it's not relevant to the bit I highlighted.

So explain to me the functions of this device that it does not do that all those iPhone users would do if they had an Android or Windows phone? I'm not trying to pick an argument. I am genuinely interested, as an iPhone user, what everyday functionality I am missing out on?

From the bold bit. "30% less"
You can't get the same described functionality on the cheapest iPhone, 30% cheaper than the cheapest iPhone, and still buy a new apple device.
You can however get the same described functionality on the cheapest iPhone, 30% cheaper than the cheapest iPhone, and buy an android device.

That's the point. For what most people do on a phone, an iPhone is an expensive way to do it for no practical gain. Hence apple tax.

jmorgan

36,010 posts

284 months

Friday 19th February 2016

Buyers choice. I have a choice and use it. Not that I own a phone. Be a dull world if we were all the same.

AC43

11,488 posts

208 months

Friday 19th February 2016

Leithen said:

AC43 said:

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

........

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought in. One of the world's most successful and profitable businesses. I'm just too mean to pay the premium.

I'd simply argue that they make good products that a lot of people are very happy with. Their customer satisfaction scores back this up - not over a short time period, but a long one, which suggests that people really do genuinely like them.

It's not as if they were the only PC or Smartphone manufacturer in the world.

Credit where credit is due, and could they please stop Safari continually f

king beachballing on my brand new shiny iMac.... furious

Fair points. They couldn't maintain the customer support if the products weren't generally up to the task in hand. The cleverness in the marketing, though. They have build and have maintained an aspirational brand which gets people to pay more for the handsets.

And which also leads them to suspend belief as they enter the walled garden of the ecosystem. One in and you'll never get out......Very very clever. And it will be very profitable for a long time to come.

All based on very good research, a very clear understanding of their various customer segments, good positioning and so on.

5,309 posts

150 months

Friday 19th February 2016

Munter said:

HorneyMX5 said:

ZesPak said:

And then it did. And MS bailed them out,

So other people were right about Apple back then, maybe they are right now?

There are almost no occasions where I would think: you know what, product X from Apple would be perfect for the job, better than product Y which costs 30% less. It's almost always the reverse, they are very expensive products used by people who usually do very little with them so that they don't see the walls they're inside. There are exceptions to this of course, but in general it's just not looking any further and following the pack.

Don't get me wrong, they're ok products. But the Apple tax is very, very real.

The bit in bold. Lets take the ever moaned about iPhone and iOS. It is a telephone, text message client, portable media player, payment method, internet connected app running device. That's what it does. Now for 99.99% of the population it does all of these things perfectly well, in fact brilliantly. I would argue that well over 90% of iPhone users use all or most of those major functions of the device. The fact it is expensive is not really true anymore, there are plenty of like for like "premium" android devices out there. But we can take cost out of it, it's not relevant to the bit I highlighted.

So explain to me the functions of this device that it does not do that all those iPhone users would do if they had an Android or Windows phone? I'm not trying to pick an argument. I am genuinely interested, as an iPhone user, what everyday functionality I am missing out on?

From the bold bit. "30% less"
You can't get the same described functionality on the cheapest iPhone, 30% cheaper than the cheapest iPhone, and still buy a new apple device.
You can however get the same described functionality on the cheapest iPhone, 30% cheaper than the cheapest iPhone, and buy an android device.

That's the point. For what most people do on a phone, an iPhone is an expensive way to do it for no practical gain. Hence apple tax.

Ah. So it's all about that then. You are upset with how other people spend their money. I can safely assume therefore that anyone who drives anything from say Audi, BMW, Mercedes etc are in the same camp? "Audi Tax" "Mercedes Tax" Those who live in the more expensive houses I guess also paying "House Tax".

In principle then I actually agree with you that you can get stuff that does the same practical thing for less money. It just doesn't have that premium feel. For some things in life I chose the premium product because I like it and for others I do not.

I have an iPhone and a Mac - I drive a Skoda Yeti.
I have a Bosch Fridge - I have an Indesit washing machine.
I buy Sainsburys own instant coffee - I only buy mail order fine teas.

Sometime we like to teat ourselves to little luxuries.

Munter

31,319 posts

241 months

Friday 19th February 2016

HorneyMX5 said:

Ah. So it's all about that then. You are upset with how other people spend their money.

Nope but you appear to be. Stop projecting. Improve comprehension and forum craft. Then respond.

I simply explained the bit you ignored in the post.

Leithen

10,897 posts

267 months

Friday 19th February 2016

You can get a remarkably good rebate on the Apple Tax via eBay of course.... which in the end leaves little difference in the cost of competing products.

The fabled Walled Garden is a curious one as well. Apple cunningly have an Android app to help such poor misguided fools switch to iOS, which makes one wonder why Google haven't produced something similar?

In reality the walled garden is barely a herbaceous border - shrubbery even wink

There really isn't anything on my Apple machines that I couldn't take elsewhere apart from a few blue messages. Given that so many people use third party apps for everything it really is something of a moot point these days IMO.

5,309 posts

150 months

Friday 19th February 2016

AC43 said:

Leithen said:

AC43 said:

They are very good at creating almost cult-like followings.

........

But Apple sell to people who love Apple and those people seem to see the world through Apple-shaped glasses. Like I say, great marketing. Their fans are totally bought in. One of the world's most successful and profitable businesses. I'm just too mean to pay the premium.

I'd simply argue that they make good products that a lot of people are very happy with. Their customer satisfaction scores back this up - not over a short time period, but a long one, which suggests that people really do genuinely like them.

It's not as if they were the only PC or Smartphone manufacturer in the world.

Credit where credit is due, and could they please stop Safari continually f

king beachballing on my brand new shiny iMac.... furious

Fair points. They couldn't maintain the customer support if the products weren't generally up to the task in hand. The cleverness in the marketing, though. They have build and have maintained an aspirational brand which gets people to pay more for the handsets.

And which also leads them to suspend belief as they enter the walled garden of the ecosystem. One in and you'll never get out......Very very clever. And it will be very profitable for a long time to come.

All based on very good research, a very clear understanding of their various customer segments, good positioning and so on.

One man's "walled Garden Ecosystem" is another man's "It all works together and I don't have to piss about configuring stuff."

At the end of the day Apple has been successful because it sells products people want (marketing helps here agreed) and then keep people coming back because they like the products and the service. Equally Android as a platform has been hugely successful because lots of people like it and buy into it as a product/ethos. The difference is Androids profit generation is split over multiple different business. If you added it all up it probably generates more income than Apple's mobile based income, it's just a different and devolved business model.

5,309 posts

150 months