Macbook Pro (2016)

[Rawwr]

MitchT said:

Depends very much what you want to use it for.

An input device.

[zeDuffMan]

Finally played with one in Brighton yesterday. I like the keyboard and the enormous trackpad (thank god for palm rejection) but the touchbar didn't seem to add anything to usability at all. Once you've made a sentence using the word suggestions it ran out of use for me.

Pity there isn't a 15" version without the touchbar.

[Matt..]

zeDuffMan said:

Finally played with one in Brighton yesterday. I like the keyboard and the enormous trackpad (thank god for palm rejection) but the touchbar didn't seem to add anything to usability at all. Once you've made a sentence using the word suggestions it ran out of use for me.

Pity there isn't a 15" version without the touchbar.

My thoughts on the touchbar are that for 90% of users the function keys are a waste of space. The only keys most people ever use are the volume and brightness shortcuts. These are replicated on the touchbar, and the touchbar gives more functionality. I see it as an interesting change and hope it evolves as developers build for it. We're in a world now where touchscreens are the norm, and function keys are a strange archaic concept to many.

I'm actually a developer myself, and spend many hours in visual studio, so no function keys will be annoying to begin with, but i'm sure i'll pick it up. They come back if you press the fn key anyway, so it's not much different to before.

I'll say that i've mostly ignored it so far though as it's not massively relevant to me right now, but i'm sure i'll pick up on a few things over time.


I have similar thoughts over the removing of ports. Most people never used most of the ports, so really they were a waste of space. Yes it's annoying that you have to buy new cables, and yes it's annoying nothing was added in the box, but lets move on. It's 2016, why not embrace the future instead of being stuck in the past forever. Losing MagSafe isn't great though. The USB-C cables stick in fairly well, so you need to be careful if you're used to MagSafe.


The most negative point i'd raise about the machine (putting aside price) is battery life. It really isn't that good, and that will be a problem for a lot of people. The size of the machine, and the design are real strong points though. There's nothing else like it on the market, and it's much better looking than the previous models.

[MitchT]

zeDuffMan said:

Pity there isn't a 15" version without the touchbar.

There is.

Scroll down past the first two ...
http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/1...

[zeDuffMan]

MitchT said:

There is.

Scroll down past the first two ...
http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/1...

That's the older model with slower CPU and RAM and no dedicated graphics.

[Durzel]

Matt.. said:

My thoughts on the touchbar are that for 90% of users the function keys are a waste of space. The only keys most people ever use are the volume and brightness shortcuts. These are replicated on the touchbar, and the touchbar gives more functionality. I see it as an interesting change and hope it evolves as developers build for it. We're in a world now where touchscreens are the norm, and function keys are a strange archaic concept to many.

Are you saying they're archaic because Apple has put that thought in your head?

Maybe that's a little harsh, but I wonder how many people were thinking this prior to Apple's keynote, and how many people think it now - purely on the strength on what is arguably a heavily commercially driven decision.

I think you can make an argument that the function keys were under utilised, but they were (and still are) at the top of the keyboard, an area that is not a natural place for constant usage. Apple are trying to change that paradigm, whilst still leaving the Touch bar in place of where the Function keys would go. In putting the Touch bar there, and adding all kinds of new traditionally non-Function key features there, you're asking the operator to look down from the screen to use a part of the keyboard that is not organically part of the flow, if that makes sense.

I have a new tbMBP and so far I've found myself using the Touch bar arbitrarily, rather than intuitively. It doesn't feel like one of Apple's historical "you didn't know you needed this until you've experienced it". I fully expect support to improve as time goes on, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were moved somewhere else (eg OLED Trackpad?), or removed entirely - though I seriously doubt this will happen due to Apple's hubris.

[leglessAlex]

Matt.. said:

I have similar thoughts over the removing of ports. Most people never used most of the ports, so really they were a waste of space. Yes it's annoying that you have to buy new cables, and yes it's annoying nothing was added in the box, but lets move on. It's 2016, why not embrace the future instead of being stuck in the past forever. Losing MagSafe isn't great though. The USB-C cables stick in fairly well, so you need to be careful if you're used to MagSafe.

I think you're not wrong that most people didn't use all the ports, but I find it interesting they've gone completely over in one go. I don't see why they couldn't have kept the magsafe and a couple of legacy ports like a USB-A and HDMI, then included say three USB-C/TB3 ports and made a big deal about how great they were as well as shipping all their own cables with USB-C, the iPhone cable would have been a good place to start.

I just don't see why they had to make it an all or nothing decision, I picked up a 15" Touchbar model in the Apple store and I didn't immediately think this is so much thinner and so much lighter than the previous generation model which I have.

I guess it's all academic now as what's done is done, but still it's disappointing. I usually enjoy looking at new Apple products, I like how they often create things I just want even thoughI have no real need for them, and the latest laptop has just left me a bit deflated.

[MitchT]

zeDuffMan said:

That's the older model with slower CPU and RAM and no dedicated graphics.

Okay. Have a look at electronic-king-inc on ebay. Plenty of the 'old' MacBook Pros with enhanced spec at US prices. Got my early 2008 one from there.

[Matt..]

Durzel said:

Are you saying they're archaic because Apple has put that thought in your head?

No. I've always thought they're a waste of space for all but a small selection of users. As a professional developer they're obviously very useful for me because my dev tools use them, but they only use them as there's nothing else. They are after all just shortcuts. But for normal users? For normal users they are definitely pointless and a waste of space. I've never really understood why they've stuck around for so long on keyboards. I feel that for the vast majority of people the context sensitive touchbar is a vastly better use of space.

leglessAlex said:

I think you're not wrong that most people didn't use all the ports, but I find it interesting they've gone completely over in one go. I don't see why they couldn't have kept the magsafe and a couple of legacy ports like a USB-A and HDMI, then included say three USB-C/TB3 ports and made a big deal about how great they were as well as shipping all their own cables with USB-C, the iPhone cable would have been a good place to start.

The only part of the switch to USB-C that I find frustrating is the existence of Lightning. Why does it still exist? I imagine that they iPhone will take an age to move to USB-C, but there's no point in Lightening existing, other than for monetary gain.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with USB-C moving forwards as there are limited products out there using it. It's surprising that Microsoft haven't embraced it at all with the Surface products (including the new Surface Studio).

Edited by Matt.. on Sunday 4th December 21:43

Edited by Matt.. on Sunday 4th December 21:43

[Slackline]

Durzel said:

BalhamBadger said:

So has anybody actually got one yet?

Got my fully loaded (bar 1TB SSD) 15" one a couple of weeks ago now. I'm happy with it, the keyboard wasn't as jarring as I feared it would be. All in all pleased with the purchase.

The big down sides however were the exorbitant price, and to be honest I've found the Touch bar to be a bit of a gimmick so far. I find myself going out of my way to press buttons on it, rather than it being an organic user experience. Am hoping that will change though - 3rd party app support seems non existent.

Same here. 1TB short on the SSD as I didn't see the need for it, would rather have backups in case I lose it or it's stolen.

Mine arrived a few weeks ago, but I've been using my 2012 one mainly. It's a pain in the arse to set up. It won't accept my email accounts and copying my keychain across is a right git. I've not tried copying everything from the old one, as I didn't see the point. But I guess Apple want me to do that, so I'll then have to delete a load of stuff.

Or I get to visit a 'Genius' so that they can patronise me whilst having some bizarre routine that does what I want.

I'm not impressed so far, if you was wondering...

[gizlaroc]

funkyrobot said:

I probably shouldn't post on here, but this is one of the reasons I will never buy an Apple product.

A lot of people moan about Windows machines etc. slowing down as they get old. Some people seem to forget that Apple devices do exactly the same. Also, you can't do anything with an Apple device. Everything (especially on the desktop machines and laptops) is soldered and stuck down. If I want to update the RAM in my PC, I open the case and swap it. Update the RAM on a modern Apple device? No way.

Not really.

Many modern laptops are going the same way.

My 2008 iMac has just refused to install the latest OSX Sierra, but over the last few years I updated ram from 2gb to 8gb, swapped the hard drive for an SSD and it still feels nice and quick running a 2015 OS.

8 years between hardware upgrades is fine by me and I won't upgrade till next year, so it will be 9 years.

I have never had a Windows PC last more than 3 years.

funkyrobot said:

Apple products are so damn restrictive.

Then there is iTunes. If I want to copy files to and from my Android phone. I plug it into my PC, it appears as an external drive and I copy and paste. Apple device? Only certain things can be copied over without iTunes.

Unless I am mistaken of course. Last time I even looked at an Apple device was a year or so ago. Happy to be proven wrong.

I agree about this.

However, after living with it and realising the closed system also always very clever back up and wireless syncing going over to Android made me realise I actually prefer doing it all on the computer and just finding it there on my phone when I pick it up.

But can totally get the frustration when used to more open systems.

[gizlaroc]

Slackline said:

Same here. 1TB short on the SSD as I didn't see the need for it, would rather have backups in case I lose it or it's stolen.

Mine arrived a few weeks ago, but I've been using my 2012 one mainly. It's a pain in the arse to set up. It won't accept my email accounts and copying my keychain across is a right git. I've not tried copying everything from the old one, as I didn't see the point. But I guess Apple want me to do that, so I'll then have to delete a load of stuff.

Or I get to visit a 'Genius' so that they can patronise me whilst having some bizarre routine that does what I want.

I'm not impressed so far, if you was wondering...

Use migration assistant and chose emails.

[RobDickinson]

To be honest reasonable hardware on any OS from ~6 years ago should still be fine.

Memory requirements and CPU power havnt increased a lot and OS's have got more efficient.

If your computer is 8 years old then historically before that they did change rapidly and 3 years wouldnt be unexpected for changes.

But now outside of some limited use cases (gaming, 4k video etc) we have so much power and efficiency you dont need to.

[dmsims]

RobDickinson said:

To be honest reasonable hardware on any OS from ~6 years ago should still be fine.

Memory requirements and CPU power havnt increased a lot and OS's have got more efficient.

If your computer is 8 years old then historically before that they did change rapidly and 3 years wouldnt be unexpected for changes.

But now outside of some limited use cases (gaming, 4k video etc) we have so much power and efficiency you dont need to.

A much more reasoned argument than the utter tripe about they only last 3 years

[funkyrobot]

gizlaroc said:

funkyrobot said:

I probably shouldn't post on here, but this is one of the reasons I will never buy an Apple product.

A lot of people moan about Windows machines etc. slowing down as they get old. Some people seem to forget that Apple devices do exactly the same. Also, you can't do anything with an Apple device. Everything (especially on the desktop machines and laptops) is soldered and stuck down. If I want to update the RAM in my PC, I open the case and swap it. Update the RAM on a modern Apple device? No way.

Not really.

Many modern laptops are going the same way.

My 2008 iMac has just refused to install the latest OSX Sierra, but over the last few years I updated ram from 2gb to 8gb, swapped the hard drive for an SSD and it still feels nice and quick running a 2015 OS.

8 years between hardware upgrades is fine by me and I won't upgrade till next year, so it will be 9 years.

I have never had a Windows PC last more than 3 years.

funkyrobot said:

Apple products are so damn restrictive.

Then there is iTunes. If I want to copy files to and from my Android phone. I plug it into my PC, it appears as an external drive and I copy and paste. Apple device? Only certain things can be copied over without iTunes.

Unless I am mistaken of course. Last time I even looked at an Apple device was a year or so ago. Happy to be proven wrong.

I agree about this.

However, after living with it and realising the closed system also always very clever back up and wireless syncing going over to Android made me realise I actually prefer doing it all on the computer and just finding it there on my phone when I pick it up.

But can totally get the frustration when used to more open systems.

You could change things on older Macs. I don't think you can on more modern examples. That was my point, really. They are making everything more and more difficult to upgrade at home. Funnily enough, I even considered a MacBook earlier this year. Put me right off when I found out about the complete lack of home upgrading.

As for a PC only lasting three years, you must be doing something wrong. I'm currently using a 5 year old laptop that work have given me, and my home PC is still running strong (and playing the latest games) after 3 1/2 years.

My mother in law has a laptop that is running fine at four years old (and she doesn't know how to look after things). We also have a really rubbish laptop that is running Vista (dear lord). It's terribly slow, but still works fine. That is six years old.

My parents have a Dell PC running Vista too. It's about six years old and is still running.

[peter tdci]

gizlaroc said:

Not really.

Many modern laptops are going the same way.

My 2008 iMac has just refused to install the latest OSX Sierra, but over the last few years I updated ram from 2gb to 8gb, swapped the hard drive for an SSD and it still feels nice and quick running a 2015 OS.

8 years between hardware upgrades is fine by me and I won't upgrade till next year, so it will be 9 years.

I have never had a Windows PC last more than 3 years.

But it has been upgraded - it's not the same machine as it was when you bought it.

The Windows PC I built in 2010 is still going strong too and, like you, I've upgraded the HD, RAM and OS (no problems installing Win10 ) along the way.

[eps]

Trigger's Broom!

[peter tdci]

eps said:

Trigger's Broom!

Exactly!

I still think of it as the PC I've had for ages, but only the case remains from the first build about 20 years ago! Last major rebuild was 2010 with new MB and CPU.

[gizlaroc]

peter tdci said:

But it has been upgraded - it's not the same machine as it was when you bought it.

The Windows PC I built in 2010 is still going strong too and, like you, I've upgraded the HD, RAM and OS (no problems installing Win10 ) along the way.

My point was, I was saying many new laptops you can't upgrade, not if you want something light, thin and sexy anyway, much the same as new Macbooks.

However, if you buy a Mac or a Mac Mini or similar you can upgrade them as you can a PC.

I was simply saying 'you cant upgrade macs' is not really the case, some you can, and some in more ways than others.

[gizlaroc]

funkyrobot said:

As for a PC only lasting three years, you must be doing something wrong. I'm currently using a 5 year old laptop that work have given me, and my home PC is still running strong (and playing the latest games) after 3 1/2 years.

My mother in law has a laptop that is running fine at four years old (and she doesn't know how to look after things). We also have a really rubbish laptop that is running Vista (dear lord). It's terribly slow, but still works fine. That is six years old.

My parents have a Dell PC running Vista too. It's about six years old and is still running.

You're right, the Lenovo in the office is probably 3 years old now and is fine.
I think I was thinking back to before I went to Macs, I probably just upgraded more because of the more modular nature of the PC.

However, the i5 Lenovo laptop is dog slow and that is only 3 years old now. I have just installed Ubunto 16.04 on it to make it useable again.
I had to strip it down and put new heat paste on the processor as Ubunto wouldn't install due to heat issues. It would be interesting to try Windows again now that is done, that was probably causing speed issues.