Macbook Pro (2016)

[jamoor]

gizlaroc said:

My point was, I was saying many new laptops you can't upgrade, not if you want something light, thin and sexy anyway, much the same as new Macbooks.

However, if you buy a Mac or a Mac Mini or similar you can upgrade them as you can a PC.

I was simply saying 'you cant upgrade macs' is not really the case, some you can, and some in more ways than others.

I think all macs are non non upgradable with soldered ram and hdds.

[gizlaroc]

You can upgrade the cpu, ram, drives and graphics in Mac Pros.

[jamoor]

gizlaroc said:

You can upgrade the cpu, ram, drives and graphics in Mac Pros.

oh ok, so a fraction of them.

[funkyrobot]

jamoor said:

gizlaroc said:

You can upgrade the cpu, ram, drives and graphics in Mac Pros.

oh ok, so a fraction of them.

And the current ones start at £2999!

Have I got that right?

[gizlaroc]

jamoor said:

oh ok, so a fraction of them.

Mac Mini and iMac you can swap drives and ram.
Mac Pro you can swap the lot as you would a PC.

The laptops you can't now as it is all soldered on, but they don't make big chunky laptops anymore, they are all sleek, thin and lightweight and that is the compromise.

Same with Windows laptops, but something as sleek and thin as a Macbook won't be upgradeable either.

The Mac range is tiny, the offer what they offer and probably sell more laptops and desktops as any one else? People like them, they know the limitations of them and buy them or not.

[Rawwr]

Can you use any graphics cards in Mac Pros or are you limited to a specific subset?

[gizlaroc]

funkyrobot said:

And the current ones start at £2999!

Have I got that right?

Probably, I wouldn't know.

iMac is £2k for decent SSD and 16gb ram, so I would guess so. I suppose you get a nice 27" 5k display with the iMac though.

[gizlaroc]

Rawwr said:

Can you use any graphics cards in Mac Pros or are you limited to a specific subset?

Not a clue, I would never have use for anything more powerful than what is offered on a Mac Mini myself. I stopped gaming on PCs 15 years ago.

[BlueMR2]

gizlaroc said:

funkyrobot said:

And the current ones start at £2999!

Have I got that right?

Probably, I wouldn't know.

iMac is £2k for decent SSD and 16gb ram, so I would guess so. I suppose you get a nice 27" 5k display with the iMac though.

I was looking at an old style macbook pro after the new one was announced, however they pulled the £300 increase prank when they had the new one, so I was looking round for ones without the price increase, to find a £2k model with additional graphics and SSD space, however it wasn't to be.

Browsing in John Lewis at the time, they had the prices shown for the iMac's, some of the new prices, some of the old. I don't really take my macbook pro anywhere so an iMac would be fine, so I asked and after disappearing and appearing again a few times they agreed to match the old price, £1849, so less than a macbook pro would cost £400 less than the exact same model would be elsewhere (although a trackpad rather than mouse would have been good).

I was going to add another 16gb of ram from Crucial for around £105, however Amazon had some hyperx ram at £30 per 8GB stick, so for £120 I added the full 32GB as it was only an extra £15 and I can always sell the 2 x 4GB in the future. realistically, even if they update the system, it's unlikely to be that cheap to get a top spec one and the display itself is stunning. You also get the top of the range graphics processor as well as ethernet and usb 3 ports which I would need adapters for on the laptop (I always plug it in with Ethernet), and the 2tb fusion drive, so it has the 128gb of SSD inside.

Compared to my old core2duo processor macbook pro (circa 8 yrs old) which had a failing fan and also was loosing it's backlight, (I think 3 of 4 led strips had gone) its very quick, and carries out the current tasks I've given it with ease, It plays 4k video easily whilst my laptop struggled with 720p and it's nice to not have a processor at 90+ degrees sat above your crotch.

A couple of old SSD's in £7 usb 3 enclosures and they work very fast over the usb connection so adding more storage over the 2TB is easy without the need to remove the screen, plus a usb external dvd drive, all for less than a MBP.

The other problem I have with the macbook pro's is their inability to keep cool if they are doing something very processor intensive. It's a shame that instead of making it a few mm thinner they didn't increase battery life and improve cooling instead.

[Nardiola]

funkyrobot said:

gizlaroc said:

funkyrobot said:

I probably shouldn't post on here, but this is one of the reasons I will never buy an Apple product.

A lot of people moan about Windows machines etc. slowing down as they get old. Some people seem to forget that Apple devices do exactly the same. Also, you can't do anything with an Apple device. Everything (especially on the desktop machines and laptops) is soldered and stuck down. If I want to update the RAM in my PC, I open the case and swap it. Update the RAM on a modern Apple device? No way.

Not really.

Many modern laptops are going the same way.

My 2008 iMac has just refused to install the latest OSX Sierra, but over the last few years I updated ram from 2gb to 8gb, swapped the hard drive for an SSD and it still feels nice and quick running a 2015 OS.

8 years between hardware upgrades is fine by me and I won't upgrade till next year, so it will be 9 years.

I have never had a Windows PC last more than 3 years.

funkyrobot said:

Apple products are so damn restrictive.

Then there is iTunes. If I want to copy files to and from my Android phone. I plug it into my PC, it appears as an external drive and I copy and paste. Apple device? Only certain things can be copied over without iTunes.

Unless I am mistaken of course. Last time I even looked at an Apple device was a year or so ago. Happy to be proven wrong.

I agree about this.

However, after living with it and realising the closed system also always very clever back up and wireless syncing going over to Android made me realise I actually prefer doing it all on the computer and just finding it there on my phone when I pick it up.

But can totally get the frustration when used to more open systems.

You could change things on older Macs. I don't think you can on more modern examples. That was my point, really. They are making everything more and more difficult to upgrade at home. Funnily enough, I even considered a MacBook earlier this year. Put me right off when I found out about the complete lack of home upgrading.

As for a PC only lasting three years, you must be doing something wrong. I'm currently using a 5 year old laptop that work have given me, and my home PC is still running strong (and playing the latest games) after 3 1/2 years.

My mother in law has a laptop that is running fine at four years old (and she doesn't know how to look after things). We also have a really rubbish laptop that is running Vista (dear lord). It's terribly slow, but still works fine. That is six years old.

My parents have a Dell PC running Vista too. It's about six years old and is still running.

Just for a slightly different view, I've always run Windows/Linux desktops and laptops. I currently have a W10 Desktop running various things, a W8.1 Lenovo Yoga (Corporate Device) and MBPr 2013. I much prefer the look and feel of the MacBook. It does everything I need it to, and where it doesn't (MS Project/Visio) I fire up Parallels.

Anyway, the point around upgrading. In all my years of laptop ownership, the only thing I've ever upgraded was the RAM. With this is mind when I specc'd up the Mac I put in as much RAM as possible, knowing they'd use JB Weld to fit it securely. It's still perfect for my needs right now and probably will be for a few years to come. My Lenovo is sat gathering dust.

That said, the new range of Macs are ridiculously overpriced for what they are, I've no interest in getting one of them

[jamoor]

Nardiola said:

Just for a slightly different view, I've always run Windows/Linux desktops and laptops. I currently have a W10 Desktop running various things, a W8.1 Lenovo Yoga (Corporate Device) and MBPr 2013. I much prefer the look and feel of the MacBook. It does everything I need it to, and where it doesn't (MS Project/Visio) I fire up Parallels.

Anyway, the point around upgrading. In all my years of laptop ownership, the only thing I've ever upgraded was the RAM. With this is mind when I specc'd up the Mac I put in as much RAM as possible, knowing they'd use JB Weld to fit it securely. It's still perfect for my needs right now and probably will be for a few years to come. My Lenovo is sat gathering dust.

That said, the new range of Macs are ridiculously overpriced for what they are, I've no interest in getting one of them

I think the main problem with the lenovo is windows.

It's amazing to see how a company that does nothing but make software can do such a bad job of it.

[Matt..]

jamoor said:

I think the main problem with the lenovo is windows.

It's amazing to see how a company that does nothing but make software can do such a bad job of it.

Windows isn't so bad. Though recent versions have a tendency to just hide stuff behind layers of new ui. The same stuff that's been around for years and years is still there... just hidden behind an ever growing pile of ui elements

[gizlaroc]

I do wish MS would have the balls to say "You will need to get new versions of your apps, but we are building a brand new OS and it will be super slick to use and it will fly."

Having used Ubuntu 16.04 for the last few weeks going back to Windows 10 feels like it is just lots of things bolted on top, layer upon layer of tut to get to what you want to get to in settings.
Ubuntu is just so slick in comparison.

I set me old mans PC up for him with Linux Mint, mainly so I didn't have to worry about him messing it up like he often does with Windows. But he retired and decided to take his PC home with him. We installed Windows 10 and after 2 months of constant phone calls saying "How do I....?" I put Ubuntu on it. That was 3 months ago now and only had one phone call which was when he bought a new printer.
The fact a 73 year old who is not tech savvy at all finds Linux easier than Windows says a lot imho!

[RobDickinson]

gizlaroc said:

I do wish MS would have the balls to say "You will need to get new versions of your apps, but we are building a brand new OS and it will be super slick to use and it will fly."

hell no. the good thing about windows is that (almost) everything works even that much needed program from 2002.

if you want fk you compatibility levels then you can choose osx.

And windows 8/10 are secure and efficient. the Ui is somewhat confused in places but fundamentally its a great OS.

[gizlaroc]

RobDickinson said:

hell no. the good thing about windows is that (almost) everything works even that much needed program from 2002.

if you want fk you compatibility levels then you can choose osx.

And windows 8/10 are secure and efficient. the Ui is somewhat confused in places but fundamentally its a great OS.

How many apps are you actually running from 2002 though?

Seriously, every app I have installed on my PC has been updated, the oldest one is probably 2 years old.
Nothing to stop you running a Win XP/7/10 along side it for that app you want from 2002.

Just simple things like using a printer on an XP machine is a pain in Win 10. Moved that printer to Windows 10 and the Macs see it, Ubuntu sees it, Mint sees it, XP Sees it, but the Windows 7 machine doesn't?

Stick the printer on the Ubuntu machine and every PC sees it.


Why is there now a Control Panel and a Settings page?


I'm not knocking Windows 10, but it is the fact that it is pretty secure and efficient that makes it frustrating. I just wish they would start fresh, get rid of those silly tiles, have a nice System Settings page, and stop ramming updates down your throat.

It could be so much slicker.

[RobDickinson]

gizlaroc said:

How many apps are you actually running from 2002 though?

Businesses ( you know, a huge part of windows user base..) quite often have custom old software that cant be updated that needs to run. Sometimes this even prevents them updating to newer OS's that do cause trouble with compatibility.

Hell, a lot of places are running stuff that requires IE6 or something

Windows encompasses more than a bunch of disposable millennials wanting to facetime.

[jamoor]

gizlaroc said:

I do wish MS would have the balls to say "You will need to get new versions of your apps, but we are building a brand new OS and it will be super slick to use and it will fly."

Having used Ubuntu 16.04 for the last few weeks going back to Windows 10 feels like it is just lots of things bolted on top, layer upon layer of tut to get to what you want to get to in settings.
Ubuntu is just so slick in comparison.

I set me old mans PC up for him with Linux Mint, mainly so I didn't have to worry about him messing it up like he often does with Windows. But he retired and decided to take his PC home with him. We installed Windows 10 and after 2 months of constant phone calls saying "How do I....?" I put Ubuntu on it. That was 3 months ago now and only had one phone call which was when he bought a new printer.
The fact a 73 year old who is not tech savvy at all finds Linux easier than Windows says a lot imho!

I agree, my x201 upgraded to windows 10. I use the machine once every now and then and whenever I went to turn it on it would hassle me with updated. I ended up just wiping it and sticking ubuntu on there.

I wonder if there will be less of a reliance on windows with the masses as so much stuff doesn't require an application installed apart from a web browser.

[gizlaroc]

RobDickinson said:

Businesses ( you know, a huge part of windows user base..) quite often have custom old software that cant be updated that needs to run. Sometimes this even prevents them updating to newer OS's that do cause trouble with compatibility.

Hell, a lot of places are running stuff that requires IE6 or something

Windows encompasses more than a bunch of disposable millennials wanting to facetime.

For a minute Rob I thought you were one of those patronising s.
I'm not a disposable millennial, I reckon I am a bit of a stuck in the mud old fart like yourself. I drag my heels with changing things as I get used to what I know.

The reason I have a machine running Win XP still is because I run Microsoft RMS at work and it runs better on that than on Windows 10.

However, we also have more than one machine at work and we tend to try and look forward when it comes to software, often we don't like to change as we like to use what we know, but so far every change to a newer platform has paid dividends in productivity and over all cost savings.

In fact, I say we still have MS RMS, we moved to a cloud based system 6 months ago doing the same job, and I have to admit it beats MS RMS hands down, so we have just given notice.
$59 a month instead of £2500 a year for the MS software.
It took those disposable millennials to get me to change.

Those same disposable millennials have talked me out of Sage Accounting and Payroll at £3000 a year and we are using Xero at £34 a month.


Sometimes being pushed to look at alternatives can be the kick up the arse we often need.

[gizlaroc]

jamoor said:

I agree, my x201 upgraded to windows 10. I use the machine once every now and then and whenever I went to turn it on it would hassle me with updated. I ended up just wiping it and sticking ubuntu on there.

I wonder if there will be less of a reliance on windows with the masses as so much stuff doesn't require an application installed apart from a web browser.

Yeah, see my post above.

All my software is now cloud based.

And the ones that are not could be, just I haven't jumped yet.

The OS is becoming far less important every day.

[RobDickinson]

gizlaroc said:

The OS is becoming far less important every day.

It is ( Xero is an NZ based company ), cloud/sas will and is taking over big areas.

But from MS's point of view they are not going to prevent you from running an old SAGE system. They also dont stop you moving on. Its a pain in the arse to support old stuff (both software and hardware) but thats what their corporate customers on the whole want.

I've mostly stuck with windows 8.1 as there are aspects of 10 I really disagree with.