Macbook Pro (2016)
Discussion
silentbrown said:
That £2700 Mac price will include vat - but also there's a 12% discount available on XPS prices.
Re CPU/GPU : XPS has current latest i7 chip, MBP has previous generation so XPS should be a bit ahead.
I substracted the Vat, the price was 3200+ for the 1TB with 16GB RAM.Re CPU/GPU : XPS has current latest i7 chip, MBP has previous generation so XPS should be a bit ahead.
Edited by ZesPak on Thursday 24th November 12:25
eps said:
Well done genius, go to the top of the class. I already looked and couldn't find a 50% price difference - neither could you either otherwise you'd have posted it.
There's no doubt that Macs are more expensive but not 100% more. So please post two links which show this.
Go and spec up a 13" touchbar MBP with 16Gb RAM and a 512Gb SSD and a Core i7 processor. You'll get £2,399 or thereabouts. There's no doubt that Macs are more expensive but not 100% more. So please post two links which show this.
I just paid £1,349 for an XPS13 with that spec. So 56% (I think I said more or less 50%
). Once you add in the dingle costs you'll get a bit closer 
SORRY... forgot to mention I have a 3yr warranty on the XPS. Add that to a MBP and you add £229 to the price. Being generous add £49 for a multiport adapter to get it close on real world connectivity ports... And we're at 50.4%...
Edited by Murph7355 on Thursday 24th November 13:39
Murph7355 said:
eps said:
Well done genius, go to the top of the class. I already looked and couldn't find a 50% price difference - neither could you either otherwise you'd have posted it.
There's no doubt that Macs are more expensive but not 100% more. So please post two links which show this.
Go and spec up a 13" touchbar MBP with 16Gb RAM and a 512Gb SSD and a Core i7 processor. You'll get £2,399 or thereabouts. There's no doubt that Macs are more expensive but not 100% more. So please post two links which show this.
I just paid £1,349 for an XPS13 with that spec. So 56% (I think I said more or less 50%
). Once you add in the dingle costs you'll get a bit closer SORRY... forgot to mention I have a 3yr warranty on the XPS. Add that to a MBP and you add £229 to the price. Being generous add £49 for a multiport adapter to get it close on real world connectivity ports... And we're at 50.4%...
Edited by Murph7355 on Thursday 24th November 13:39
It's all a bit regardless really, as tests have shown that for video editing work (something these machines are heavily aimed at) the MBP running FCP X is a fair bit faster than an equivalent machine running Premiere Pro. So there is still hardware/software optimisation happening to make them as fast as possible. I've even seen one person suggest they may ditch their Mac Pro in favour of a top spec MBP and 2x 5k displays.
Digitalize said:
It's all a bit regardless really, as tests have shown that for video editing work (something these machines are heavily aimed at) the MBP running FCP X is a fair bit faster than an equivalent machine running Premiere Pro. So there is still hardware/software optimisation happening to make them as fast as possible. I've even seen one person suggest they may ditch their Mac Pro in favour of a top spec MBP and 2x 5k displays.
Was that by any chance MKBHD? He said he was going to give it a go. Tbh the Mac Pro isn't really a benchmarkk anymore, and no replacement. As for FCP X, it's a different piece of software and OK if you like it, but you really should compare Premiere Pro vs Premiere Pro, no? Otherwise if you're going to select software that isn't available on the other platform, OSX is fighting a losing battle anyway.
ZesPak said:
Was that by any chance MKBHD? He said he was going to give it a go. Tbh the Mac Pro isn't really a benchmarkk anymore, and no replacement.
As for FCP X, it's a different piece of software and OK if you like it, but you really should compare Premiere Pro vs Premiere Pro, no? Otherwise if you're going to select software that isn't available on the other platform, OSX is fighting a losing battle anyway.
Yeah, granted I don't think he's an editor of films, but they're vastly beyond what most systems do, rendering farms etc. It's still hugely powerful for a desktop machine, and if a portable machine can replace it that's a pretty big deal. The Mac Pro can't run 5k displays due to it's lack of TB3.As for FCP X, it's a different piece of software and OK if you like it, but you really should compare Premiere Pro vs Premiere Pro, no? Otherwise if you're going to select software that isn't available on the other platform, OSX is fighting a losing battle anyway.
I do agree but that was the only comparison I saw. However I use FCP X professionally, so it's nice to know that I'm gaining performance over PP.
The bottom line is Mac hardware has almost always been more expensive spec for spec whether that be by 20% or 50%. Apple usually counter that with a better, more optimised OS, great design aesthetics, machines that tend to last longer than your average Windows machine and greater resale value, plus of course not forgetting the Apple badge which still has that huge luxury brand draw for a lot of people.
However it looks like the price differential between the latest MBP and comparable Windows machines is now larger then ever, Windows 10 while still not quiet as good as OS X is a decent, stable OS and Windows machines are now starting to catch up on the design side too. In short the competition have almost caught up to a point where you can't just ignore the price differential anymore and they've gone and made that differential larger, tough sell IMO. I've heard from so many hardcore Mac people who are jumping ship right now.
However it looks like the price differential between the latest MBP and comparable Windows machines is now larger then ever, Windows 10 while still not quiet as good as OS X is a decent, stable OS and Windows machines are now starting to catch up on the design side too. In short the competition have almost caught up to a point where you can't just ignore the price differential anymore and they've gone and made that differential larger, tough sell IMO. I've heard from so many hardcore Mac people who are jumping ship right now.
eps said:
Just so we're clear was that a 'new' XPS13 or not a 'new' XPS13 - you said 50% I asked you to prove it by providing links to both - then we can all see a direct comparison, you're still avoiding proving it, but never mind!
I'd guess the Dell is this one. http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=...£1499 less 12% = £1319.
And the nearest equivalent Mac would be this, plus the Core i7 and 16GB upgrades = £2399 http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?p...
silentbrown said:
eps said:
Just so we're clear was that a 'new' XPS13 or not a 'new' XPS13 - you said 50% I asked you to prove it by providing links to both - then we can all see a direct comparison, you're still avoiding proving it, but never mind!
I'd guess the Dell is this one. http://www.dell.com/uk/p/xps-13-9360-laptop/pd?oc=...£1499 less 12% = £1319.
And the nearest equivalent Mac would be this, plus the Core i7 and 16GB upgrades = £2399 http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?p...
I think you're right - although still not 50% and I could get a MBP to £2079 http://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro?p...
Either £1,080 or £760 difference.
As I mentioned earlier if I was in the market for a new laptop right now I could well consider a Dell XPS. Especially now the price difference seems to be a lot more than it used to. I'm fairly sure that when I looked it was only 2-300 extra, but this is when the XPS range was quite new around 3-4 years ago.
I was lucky to be able to purchase my last MBP in the States - 18-20 months ago when the dollar vs pound difference was markedly different.
Had a very quick play on a 13" touchbar MBP today.
First impression on the bar is that it's very very responsive and works well. Still not convinced that it's not a gimmick. Time would tell.
Key throw is very short but positive. I imagine it's personal preference.
Think I'll get a 15" next year.
First impression on the bar is that it's very very responsive and works well. Still not convinced that it's not a gimmick. Time would tell.
Key throw is very short but positive. I imagine it's personal preference.
Think I'll get a 15" next year.
eps said:
Just so we're clear was that a 'new' XPS13 or not a 'new' XPS13 - you said 50% I asked you to prove it by providing links to both - then we can all see a direct comparison, you're still avoiding proving it, but never mind!
It was a new one. 7th gen, Core i7. I bought it 2 weeks ago. I really couldn't care less whether you believe me or not. John Lewis price matched PC World (edited to add - who at the time had 10% off).
You can go and get the Apple price on their website. A friend runs an Apple dealer and there is little to no room to pay anything other than the site price. Perhaps 5%-10% tops.
Regardless, ball park the Dells are about half the price. Even if you stuck religiously to the rrp because you do not wish to get the price down, like for like on the basis noted above the Dell is 56% the price of the Apple.
Over 15yrs or so I've had 4 mac laptops. 2 iMacs. 4 Mac Minis (3 still in use). We have a 13" MBA still in use (do you need the custard test on that too?). I am/was an Apple fan. But that level of price disparity is simply not justifiable on rational grounds.
Edited by Murph7355 on Thursday 24th November 23:52
Apple is clearly just upping the price, knowing they'll lose some customers but take a much bigger margin on those they inevitably sell.
It must hurt to have 80% margins on phones, then having to live with 40% on laptops.
They've stopped their display game, their WiFi routers.
I imagine their was a meeting and it went like this :
A: hey, how high could we up the price
B: how about 30%
A: sure, let's give that a go
B: yeah, and if it doesn't work out we can always stop selling laptops.
It must hurt to have 80% margins on phones, then having to live with 40% on laptops.
They've stopped their display game, their WiFi routers.
I imagine their was a meeting and it went like this :
A: hey, how high could we up the price
B: how about 30%
A: sure, let's give that a go
B: yeah, and if it doesn't work out we can always stop selling laptops.
ZesPak said:
Apple is clearly just upping the price, knowing they'll lose some customers but take a much bigger margin on those they inevitably sell.
It must hurt to have 80% margins on phones, then having to live with 40% on laptops.
They've stopped their display game, their WiFi routers.
I imagine their was a meeting and it went like this :
A: hey, how high could we up the price
B: how about 30%
A: sure, let's give that a go
B: yeah, and if it doesn't work out we can always stop selling laptops as we now sell a billion iphones a year.
^^^ This but slightly edited for accuracy. It must hurt to have 80% margins on phones, then having to live with 40% on laptops.
They've stopped their display game, their WiFi routers.
I imagine their was a meeting and it went like this :
A: hey, how high could we up the price
B: how about 30%
A: sure, let's give that a go
B: yeah, and if it doesn't work out we can always stop selling laptops as we now sell a billion iphones a year.
768 said:
I thought iphone sales weren't doing so well this time around?
That's a relative term, they are still selling loads, just not as many as the last one and that's basically because they seem to have stopped innovating and just seem content to regurgitate the same thing with one or two changes every year. I have difficulty telling the difference between the last 2-3 generations of iphone if I'm honest.Craikeybaby said:
They are selling less iPhones, but making more profit on them.
And new models come around more frequently because people are used to changing their phones in an 18 or 24 month cycle.I said earlier in the thread that approx 75% of Apple's revenue comes from phones and tablets and about 15% from computers (not just laptops). If the former has a higher profit margin as well, then any normal business (ie one without billions of dollars of cash lying around) would concentrate on that part.
Is Apple turning into a phone manufacturer that has a computer sideline?
MitchT said:
I started to wonder the same. I think Apple should create a distinction between its fad gadgets and its pro gear so that when the former goes pop the latter won't be taken with it.
That seems to be a risk, but even as it is today Apple as we know it would cease to exist if the iPhone sales stop. The share is just too big. I was thinking about Samsung with their Note fiasco. Friend of mine was in the market, then bought an S6 edge once Note batteries started overheating. If Apple experiences something similar (I truly hope not !), not only do they not have a backup phone, they don't even have a backup product or market.
Indeed it would, which is exactly why I'd prefer to see the 'pro' gear range protected by, maybe, running two separate companies in parallel, each of which place no burden on the other.
Apple are selling the iPhone 7 and 6S simultaneously so I guess the 6S would have been the back up if the 7 had turned out to be firebomb.
Apple are selling the iPhone 7 and 6S simultaneously so I guess the 6S would have been the back up if the 7 had turned out to be firebomb.
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