All those bargain end of Lease Golf R's ?
Discussion
Where are they ?
had a quick nosey last night and most are 20k plus even for a leggy 2013, most seem to be 25k for anything more recent and arent they available from a broker for 28 ish new ? anything less than 20 seems to be Cat D or some other dodgyness. Was hoping there would be a good number dipping into the mid high teens by now.
Am I missing something ? but to me, looks like the predicted droves of Cheap Golf R's arent happening as predicted, or is it still too early, or my expectations on price a bit unrealistic ?
Wonder if, despite the numbers leased the R will follow the pattern of previous fast Golf's/VAG stuff, 6'rs are still expensive, R32s also ?
had a quick nosey last night and most are 20k plus even for a leggy 2013, most seem to be 25k for anything more recent and arent they available from a broker for 28 ish new ? anything less than 20 seems to be Cat D or some other dodgyness. Was hoping there would be a good number dipping into the mid high teens by now.
Am I missing something ? but to me, looks like the predicted droves of Cheap Golf R's arent happening as predicted, or is it still too early, or my expectations on price a bit unrealistic ?
Wonder if, despite the numbers leased the R will follow the pattern of previous fast Golf's/VAG stuff, 6'rs are still expensive, R32s also ?
MDMA . said:
would you really want an ex lease Golf R?
lad at work has one. ragged from cold everyday. abused no end. he takes the view that it's going back next year!
not for me.
Because its a car that for me would do it all, and the question would still stand for 3 year old privately owned examples as well.lad at work has one. ragged from cold everyday. abused no end. he takes the view that it's going back next year!
not for me.
Also, not everyone is quite as hard on cars as your colleague and is actively trying to damage it for the next owner and anyway, a modern car that is serviced should cope with a bit of that and I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
Al U said:
I'd imagine they are now briefly going back onto main dealer forecourts and being snapped up by people that have been waiting to get them used on a PCP that buy the time you take into account the interest costs more than buying a new one.
This is the thing that I don't quite understand about the economics of leasing (from the dealer's/manufacturers point of view). The likes of BMW/Merc/VW are, apparently, able to win in the leasing market because you can expect good residuals on their cars (and because leasing rates look v. attractive when compared to the pie-in-the-sky list prices). As a result they shift a lot on leases/PCPs. But if they do this then there should be a lot in the used market, which should mean residuals aren't quite as good. But they still are and, and this is the bit I really don't get, people must be willing to pay prices for used ones that look really crap in comparison to leasing/PCPing a new one.I mean, for a variety of reasons I do like to own my cars rather than lease, but if it was £20k for a three-year old Golf R that might have been ragged stupid vs £300p.m. for a brand new one, the latter seems like an absolute no-brainer.
Not sure where this "ragged" thing comes from, I can get the fact they are too expensive currently relative to a discounted new one but people still rag ones they own, maybe less but really I cant see they will be knackered after two years and 10 to 20k even with the odd bit of stick from cold.
The leasing works for the manufacturers as a Golf Cost x pounds to make, even the most basic ones cost pretty much the same as an R to make, ok the 4wd gubbins will cost more but I cant imagine most of it will really make an R cost more to make than any other Golf, that you can get from what 18 grand, VW much prefer to sell 30 grand R's to 18 grand bog spec ones, its another 12 grand minimum, for very little additional outlay after its been designed and tested, would be interesting to see the actual costs and what costs the most to make, the line will be running day and night chucking them out.
They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
The leasing works for the manufacturers as a Golf Cost x pounds to make, even the most basic ones cost pretty much the same as an R to make, ok the 4wd gubbins will cost more but I cant imagine most of it will really make an R cost more to make than any other Golf, that you can get from what 18 grand, VW much prefer to sell 30 grand R's to 18 grand bog spec ones, its another 12 grand minimum, for very little additional outlay after its been designed and tested, would be interesting to see the actual costs and what costs the most to make, the line will be running day and night chucking them out.
They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
Roger Irrelevant said:
This is the thing that I don't quite understand about the economics of leasing (from the dealer's/manufacturers point of view). The likes of BMW/Merc/VW are, apparently, able to win in the leasing market because you can expect good residuals on their cars (and because leasing rates look v. attractive when compared to the pie-in-the-sky list prices). As a result they shift a lot on leases/PCPs. But if they do this then there should be a lot in the used market, which should mean residuals aren't quite as good. But they still are and, and this is the bit I really don't get, people must be willing to pay prices for used ones that look really crap in comparison to leasing/PCPing a new one.
I mean, for a variety of reasons I do like to own my cars rather than lease, but if it was £20k for a three-year old Golf R that might have been ragged stupid vs £300p.m. for a brand new one, the latter seems like an absolute no-brainer.
I'm in the same boat. WHO is buying all these reams and reams of 2-3 year old cars still with relatively high values compared to new AND without the attractive lease bonuses?I mean, for a variety of reasons I do like to own my cars rather than lease, but if it was £20k for a three-year old Golf R that might have been ragged stupid vs £300p.m. for a brand new one, the latter seems like an absolute no-brainer.
Some people say it's taxi drivers?
J4CKO said:
Because its a car that for me would do it all, and the question would still stand for 3 year old privately owned examples as well.
Also, not everyone is quite as hard on cars as your colleague and is actively trying to damage it for the next owner and anyway, a modern car that is serviced should cope with a bit of that and I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
you obviously don't employ many idiots at your place. it's like the starting grid at an F1 race with a rush to get out at home time Also, not everyone is quite as hard on cars as your colleague and is actively trying to damage it for the next owner and anyway, a modern car that is serviced should cope with a bit of that and I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
J4CKO said:
I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
I currently have an R Estate. Even if you do find somewhere to completely floor it, it'll be mere seconds before you find the back of another car, same as for any other fast road car. I live in the South West, and unless I go out at 6am then there is no way I could thrash it for more than a few seconds at a time, except on a rare empty road.Roger Irrelevant said:
I mean, for a variety of reasons I do like to own my cars rather than lease, but if it was £20k for a three-year old Golf R that might have been ragged stupid vs £300p.m. for a brand new one, the latter seems like an absolute no-brainer.
That's exactly why I leased. Some cars I happily buy second hand and keep till I get bored with them. But with the VW lease prices I can't fathom how it would make sense to do anything other than lease from new.I'm not paying £300p.m either, mine was £215 a month (10k miles, £1500 up front) then add on £25 a month for paint option.
MDMA . said:
J4CKO said:
Because its a car that for me would do it all, and the question would still stand for 3 year old privately owned examples as well.
Also, not everyone is quite as hard on cars as your colleague and is actively trying to damage it for the next owner and anyway, a modern car that is serviced should cope with a bit of that and I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
you obviously don't employ many idiots at your place. it's like the starting grid at an F1 race with a rush to get out at home time Also, not everyone is quite as hard on cars as your colleague and is actively trying to damage it for the next owner and anyway, a modern car that is serviced should cope with a bit of that and I am not sure it is that possible to leave most places of work and deploy 300 bhp straight away due to speed limits, traffic, common sense ?
I must admit, I dont give it 30 miles and check the oil temp like some on here do before giving it full throttle, just a reasonable bit of sympathy and havent had any issues, at least wait until the coolant is half way so the oil has got round, i have actively over a period of months tried to kill a car and it just came back for more, that was a Metro GTI that I hated with a passion that needed to die, it was revved from freezing, bounced off the rev limiter, buzzed to 7500 rpm, I did burn outs and hammered it senseless, seemed to just get faster, I think I ran it in properly.
I think we'll see the prices drop once these cars start making it onto the private market as it'll force dealerships to bring prices down. At the moment, a new one looks pretty damn appealing compared to a 2/3 year old one still for mid/high £20ks and they sell them in the same place. As most early Rs were leased on those great deals, the majority of the second hand stock is in the dealer network and approved used cars are usually £4k or £5k more than an identical car on the private market.
Once more and more Rs hit the private sale market, they'll have to drop the price to compete as it looks much less appealing when you can pick up a private sale for, as you say, mid/high teens but the dealers still want the thick end of £25k for a car of similar age/miles/condition/spec.
Once more and more Rs hit the private sale market, they'll have to drop the price to compete as it looks much less appealing when you can pick up a private sale for, as you say, mid/high teens but the dealers still want the thick end of £25k for a car of similar age/miles/condition/spec.
Roger Irrelevant said:
This is the thing that I don't quite understand about the economics of leasing (from the dealer's/manufacturers point of view). The likes of BMW/Merc/VW are, apparently, able to win in the leasing market because you can expect good residuals on their cars (and because leasing rates look v. attractive when compared to the pie-in-the-sky list prices). As a result they shift a lot on leases/PCPs. But if they do this then there should be a lot in the used market, which should mean residuals aren't quite as good. But they still are and, and this is the bit I really don't get, people must be willing to pay prices for used ones that look really crap in comparison to leasing/PCPing a new one.
I think the answer is the manufacturers have more control over residuals by careful yield management and on a larger proportion of the second hand market than even before - they will release ex-lease ex-pcp cars into the market in a controlled manner even if they have to park a few hundreds on a disused airfield for a few months to balance supply/demand.J4CKO said:
The leasing works for the manufacturers as a Golf Cost x pounds to make, even the most basic ones cost pretty much the same as an R to make, ok the 4wd gubbins will cost more but I cant imagine most of it will really make an R cost more to make than any other Golf, that you can get from what 18 grand, VW much prefer to sell 30 grand R's to 18 grand bog spec ones, its another 12 grand minimum, for very little additional outlay after its been designed and tested, would be interesting to see the actual costs and what costs the most to make, the line will be running day and night chucking them out.
They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
Agree with all that, but the point I'm making is that if (as you say) they are churning them out day and night, and if you can pick up a new one for £300p.m. (or a lot less in some cases), then who in their right mind is paying the high residual prices for used examples that allows them the be leased so cheap in the first place? You yourself have said that used prices are too high, so who are these people that are buying used Golf Rs for well north of £20k?They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
I suspect that the answer is 'virtually nobody', and that between the lease payments and what they receive via securitising their future sale receipts, VW are in fact happy to let Golf Rs go out of the door for far less than the £30k list price, which is virtually meaningless in reality.
J4CKO said:
Where are they ?
had a quick nosey last night and most are 20k plus even for a leggy 2013, most seem to be 25k for anything more recent and arent they available from a broker for 28 ish new ? anything less than 20 seems to be Cat D or some other dodgyness. Was hoping there would be a good number dipping into the mid high teens by now.
Am I missing something ? but to me, looks like the predicted droves of Cheap Golf R's arent happening as predicted, or is it still too early, or my expectations on price a bit unrealistic ?
Wonder if, despite the numbers leased the R will follow the pattern of previous fast Golf's/VAG stuff, 6'rs are still expensive, R32s also ?
On what reasoning were you expecting them to be cheap?had a quick nosey last night and most are 20k plus even for a leggy 2013, most seem to be 25k for anything more recent and arent they available from a broker for 28 ish new ? anything less than 20 seems to be Cat D or some other dodgyness. Was hoping there would be a good number dipping into the mid high teens by now.
Am I missing something ? but to me, looks like the predicted droves of Cheap Golf R's arent happening as predicted, or is it still too early, or my expectations on price a bit unrealistic ?
Wonder if, despite the numbers leased the R will follow the pattern of previous fast Golf's/VAG stuff, 6'rs are still expensive, R32s also ?
Did you expect them to be less than equivalent GTIs?
As they come back off lease, they'll be sold at trade auctions, and resold on dealer forecourts at market value.
Roger Irrelevant said:
Agree with all that, but the point I'm making is that if (as you say) they are churning them out day and night, and if you can pick up a new one for £300p.m. (or a lot less in some cases), then who in their right mind is paying the high residual prices for used examples that allows them the be leased so cheap in the first place? You yourself have said that used prices are too high, so who are these people that are buying used Golf Rs for well north of £20k?
I suspect that the answer is 'virtually nobody', and that between the lease payments and what they receive via securitising their future sale receipts, VW are in fact happy to let Golf Rs go out of the door for far less than the £30k list price, which is virtually meaningless in reality.
Because the used market tend to be fairly blind to what new cars can be PCP'd / leased for, and in fact, probably doesnt care.I suspect that the answer is 'virtually nobody', and that between the lease payments and what they receive via securitising their future sale receipts, VW are in fact happy to let Golf Rs go out of the door for far less than the £30k list price, which is virtually meaningless in reality.
Someone buying a Golf R used, either by straight finance or cash is probably going to be trading up from something else and financing the difference.
They're the "want to own" brigade, and will happily pay £300 a month on a loan, having chopped their own car in, knowing they'll own it in 3 years.
I was kind of considering leasing but kind of fancy tuning one which isnt an option unless you own it, am sure it is fast enough standard but kind of want to shoot for 400 bhp and get it out of my system.
Was thinking 20 grand to buy a reasonably fresh example and modify it but think thats a little way off yet for a 7, would need to be a 6 which is still a decent car but also still expensive and has that not the real deal thing about it.
Will be interesting to see what the new version is like, suspect that may dent values a little at the high end.
Other option is a 135i but they are still very expensive as well, its weird really we have all these cars down as a cheap lease model but they seem to get expensive again when second hand.
Was thinking 20 grand to buy a reasonably fresh example and modify it but think thats a little way off yet for a 7, would need to be a 6 which is still a decent car but also still expensive and has that not the real deal thing about it.
Will be interesting to see what the new version is like, suspect that may dent values a little at the high end.
Other option is a 135i but they are still very expensive as well, its weird really we have all these cars down as a cheap lease model but they seem to get expensive again when second hand.
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