Microsoft Surface Studio
Discussion
IMHO the Surface Studio looks awesome. A genuinely desirable product.
It is expensive, but as others have pointed out, the drawing surface alone costs almost as much if bought from Wacom.
I agree that Microsoft seem to have become the hardware innovators, and Apple are falling behind. In 30 years of using computers I never thought I'd say that. Apple have lost their groove since Jobs passed away.
All they need now is a Surface phone, and I'm all set
I think they are going to do very well indeed with this.
It is expensive, but as others have pointed out, the drawing surface alone costs almost as much if bought from Wacom.
I agree that Microsoft seem to have become the hardware innovators, and Apple are falling behind. In 30 years of using computers I never thought I'd say that. Apple have lost their groove since Jobs passed away.
All they need now is a Surface phone, and I'm all set
I think they are going to do very well indeed with this.
Apparently all configurations of surface studio have sold out. Obviously we don't know how many there were to buy but it continues Microsofts good run with hardware. Totally agree with the other comments about Apple churning out iterations and MS actually innovating. Who thought that would ever be the case a few years ago?
Anglepoise mount and the same sort of stylus that Samsung stick in their mobile phones. And a knob that pulls up context sensitive menus ... while obscuring the bit of screen that provides the context. So, incremental improvement (nothing at all wrong with that) and a daft gimmick that would be better implementef with a gesture than a physical device.
Stylus on a really high res screen are a great idea ... but ... they usually have two issues. The tip of the stylus obviously isn't actually in contact with the screen's image. There's a layer of glass in the way and even if it is only a millimetre thick, it still makes starting a pen stroke accurately far more difficult than on paper. And there is virtually no friction between the stylus and the screen compared to pen and paper making pen strokes much more difficult to control.
If Microsoft have managed to address those problems, then they'll have made the on-screen stylus properly useful and that will be a genuinely huge step forward. If not, then the stylus is going to still be more of a gimmick than a useful tool, and designers will continue to use a conventional tablet stylus to move an on-screen cursor like they've been doing for the last 30 years, because it'll be easier and more accurate.
Stylus on a really high res screen are a great idea ... but ... they usually have two issues. The tip of the stylus obviously isn't actually in contact with the screen's image. There's a layer of glass in the way and even if it is only a millimetre thick, it still makes starting a pen stroke accurately far more difficult than on paper. And there is virtually no friction between the stylus and the screen compared to pen and paper making pen strokes much more difficult to control.
If Microsoft have managed to address those problems, then they'll have made the on-screen stylus properly useful and that will be a genuinely huge step forward. If not, then the stylus is going to still be more of a gimmick than a useful tool, and designers will continue to use a conventional tablet stylus to move an on-screen cursor like they've been doing for the last 30 years, because it'll be easier and more accurate.
ATG said:
and designers will continue to use a conventional tablet stylus to move an on-screen cursor like they've been doing for the last 30 years, because it'll be easier and more accurate.
Aside from all the ones who've already made the switch to using Wacom Cintiqs, Surface Pros, iPad+Pencil etc etc, and who now generally seem to be quite enthusiastic about where MS are heading here?ATG said:
Stylus on a really high res screen are a great idea ... but ... they usually have two issues. The tip of the stylus obviously isn't actually in contact with the screen's image. There's a layer of glass in the way and even if it is only a millimetre thick, it still makes starting a pen stroke accurately far more difficult than on paper. And there is virtually no friction between the stylus and the screen compared to pen and paper making pen strokes much more difficult to control.
Speaking from experience? Because those who have used things like the pro 4/ cintiq are quite happy...Certainly on the SP & SB, hovering the pen a little way above the screen shows a little cross cursor on the display, so you can see exactly where the system thinks it's pointing. It works very well for fine stylus work. The pen does have some friction to make it feel more natural, they even sell a little kit of 4 different pen tips with varying friction to try to replicate how various pens/pencils feel.
I don't know anyone who uses a Wacom-type tablet that wouldn't want to be doing it directly on a screen instead. The issue has always been cost, and making a good/accurate display that works like that.
I don't know anyone who uses a Wacom-type tablet that wouldn't want to be doing it directly on a screen instead. The issue has always been cost, and making a good/accurate display that works like that.
Edited by sjg on Monday 31st October 09:36
chris285 said:
Thats a lot for a system with no SSD and an 18month old gpu is all i will say
Presumably the components they have in there are OK for graphics types and artists of all descriptions? I'm not seeing a huge demand for this as a gaming PC, so the GPU doesn't need to be sparkly new. Lack of an SSD is a bit odd, but hey.Yeah the gpu i can say ok it will do the job, but surprised they at the lack of ssd even as say a split 256gb SSD for the OS and then say a 1/2TB storage myself or even just a straight SSD at that price myself
As for the whole mac v windows debate i think apple are tying their hands with software to a degree, the hardware is more or less the same between the 2 bar touchscreen and then it's down to what they are trying to do.
I would still say compare a macbook to a windows laptop the mac will fair better over time myself, but both are expensive for what they are in my opinion.
I am looking to get a laptop for doing visual studio and c# stuff as well as RDP into my work computer, i want to separate my gaming pc from when I am working so looking at this route and for my needs the surface is expensive. I am looking at almost gaming laptops level for what I need based on chats with guys at work, i'm looking at a custom laptop for my needs on that front and it's cheaper than a surface book and more powerful
As for the whole mac v windows debate i think apple are tying their hands with software to a degree, the hardware is more or less the same between the 2 bar touchscreen and then it's down to what they are trying to do.
I would still say compare a macbook to a windows laptop the mac will fair better over time myself, but both are expensive for what they are in my opinion.
I am looking to get a laptop for doing visual studio and c# stuff as well as RDP into my work computer, i want to separate my gaming pc from when I am working so looking at this route and for my needs the surface is expensive. I am looking at almost gaming laptops level for what I need based on chats with guys at work, i'm looking at a custom laptop for my needs on that front and it's cheaper than a surface book and more powerful
The thing is that right there is the reason why Windows hardware is always going to be better than Mac hardware. You have a reasonably niche set of requirements and somewhere out there is a niche bit of hardware to suit you. For what you mentioned, SSD would be nice, GPU doesnt matter, lots of RAM, and a decent multicore CPU. So if you want a laptop, pretty much anything from any vendor will do you.
Yeah, a MAC would be nice, but hey, so would a decent modern 911 As a non-Mac user, the idea that you can actually sell old hardware is beyond me though. I keep mine for so long that my 15 year old rejects my handmedowns 
and the last new to me machine was a three year old workstation for the home desktop. 32Gb of RAM to write Word docs? Oh hell yes.
Yeah, a MAC would be nice, but hey, so would a decent modern 911
As a non-Mac user, the idea that you can actually sell old hardware is beyond me though. I keep mine for so long that my 15 year old rejects my handmedowns and the last new to me machine was a three year old workstation for the home desktop. 32Gb of RAM to write Word docs? Oh hell yes.durbster said:
Yep, it's one of the most puzzling things about Apple. They have enough cash to launch their own space programme but seem very reluctant to play with it. They don't seem to have any interest in exploring new things, rather just continue to polish existing ones.
Consider what Google has created and experimented with in the last ten years and Apple look weirdly dormant.
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A lot of it is trapped overseas, unable to be brought back to the USA due to tax implications IIRC.Consider what Google has created and experimented with in the last ten years and Apple look weirdly dormant.
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Edited by Andehh on Monday 31st October 13:53
leglessAlex said:
I was under the impression the Rapid Hybrid Drive did have an SSD part to hold the OS and some programs just like Apple's Fusion Drive?
That's my understanding. Microsoft don't say what tech they're using but Intel has offered their "Smart Response Technology" in chipsets for quite a few years. You can fit a big spinning disk and a SSD and they appear as one to the end user. Regularly used stuff goes a lot quicker as it's cached on the SSD, the end user gets loads of space without having to worry about where their photos and video and music should go.Apple's Fusion Drive is done in the OS, but same idea.
randlemarcus said:
The thing is that right there is the reason why Windows hardware is always going to be better than Mac hardware. You have a reasonably niche set of requirements and somewhere out there is a niche bit of hardware to suit you. For what you mentioned, SSD would be nice, GPU doesnt matter, lots of RAM, and a decent multicore CPU. So if you want a laptop, pretty much anything from any vendor will do you.
Yeah, a MAC would be nice, but hey, so would a decent modern 911 As a non-Mac user, the idea that you can actually sell old hardware is beyond me though. I keep mine for so long that my 15 year old rejects my handmedowns and the last new to me machine was a three year old workstation for the home desktop. 32Gb of RAM to write Word docs? Oh hell yes.
Erm windows and mac hardware now use some of the same components, unless I am mis reading what you are sayingYeah, a MAC would be nice, but hey, so would a decent modern 911
As a non-Mac user, the idea that you can actually sell old hardware is beyond me though. I keep mine for so long that my 15 year old rejects my handmedowns and the last new to me machine was a three year old workstation for the home desktop. 32Gb of RAM to write Word docs? Oh hell yes.Mac's come with a definitive list of hardware their OS is coded to, windows can have millions of combinations of hardware setups unlike a MAC so more chance of the software not being compliant with the hardware spec. Apple have total control over both hardware and software where microsoft do not, yes they have started to get their own hardware built now but windows still needs to work on other devices as well which is not the case with a MAC
Just to add I am a gamer and windows user so not MAC biased at all
Edited by chris285 on Monday 31st October 14:16
chris285 said:
Erm windows and mac hardware now use some of the same components, unless I am mis reading what you are saying
Mac's come with a definitive list of hardware their OS is coded to, windows can have millions of combinations of hardware setups unlike a MAC so more chance of the software not being compliant with the hardware spec. Apple have total control over both hardware and software where microsoft do not, yes they have started to get their own hardware built now but windows still needs to work on other devices as well which is not the case with a MAC
Just to add I am a gamer and windows user so not MAC biased at all
Yeah, a little bit misreading. Buying a PC has always been like setting the slidy bits on a Graphic Equaliser (and with about as much marketing bollix thrown in). You want to game? SHove the GPU up a load. Buying a Mac, for me, has always been like buying a high end bit of tin, where you get no control over this or that bit, as Jobs knows best, so you get what's good, as long as you wanted their flavour of good.Mac's come with a definitive list of hardware their OS is coded to, windows can have millions of combinations of hardware setups unlike a MAC so more chance of the software not being compliant with the hardware spec. Apple have total control over both hardware and software where microsoft do not, yes they have started to get their own hardware built now but windows still needs to work on other devices as well which is not the case with a MAC
Just to add I am a gamer and windows user so not MAC biased at all
Edited by chris285 on Monday 31st October 14:16
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