Modern engine into a classic

[classic95]

Long time lurker but I could not find an answer. This is a hypothetical so please do not talk about cost, feasibility etc. If a classic car were to have a modern engine, would you pay tax or lose classic status?
From research I discovered:
Rebuilt Vehicles: there’s no mention on line as to whether this applies to classic, vintage or modern cars (although all three definitions can be open to interpretation) it does say however a rebuilt vehicle can keep its original registration number if you can prove you’ve used:

The original unmodified chassis or body-shell
A new chassis or monocoque body-shell of the “same specification” as the original
You must also have 2 other major components from the original vehicle on the following list:

Suspension (front and Back)
Steering assembly
Axles (both)
Transmission
Engine
"http://www.heritagecarinsurance.co.uk/newsroom/news-and-articles/dvla-changes-classic-car-prove-it/"

Any clarification, knowledge, experience, links etc. regarding taxation on modern engined classics would be appreciated.
Regards Rosh

[b2hbm]

I would think you can replace the engine and still retain classic status. There's a small amount of this going on in the Lotus world, Spyder for example replace the Lotus TC engine in the Elan +2 with a Zetec (?) and IIRC there was a series of articles in one of the classic car mags when they took on such a project car. I don't remember that changing registration.

Also Banks Engineering (Southport, Lotus Europa specialists) have had several engines in the classic Europa over the years, ranging from a Smart car engine to the Vauxhall 2L. Zetec is another popular swap and all those I've seen have retained their original registrations.

I'm guessing the DVLA doesn't look too closely at such mods other than acknowledging the change on the log book. I would have thought that if you were putting in a modern, more powerful engine then you'd also look at brakes, wheels, suspension & drivetrain which takes out a lot of that list !

[V8 Fettler]

The DVLA will see a change to the engine number and - possibly - a change to the cubic capacity. The DVLA might want to see evidence of the engine change e.g. a copy of the receipt for the replacement engine.

[Keep it stiff]

There have been occasional stories in the classic press relating to the issue of to what extent a classic might be built/modified whilst retaining it's age related status, my view is that scare stories are more conjecture than fact. Having said that, I can foresee a tightening of regulations, the recent consultation document considering the extension of MOT exemption for older classics sets out an objective scoring mechanism for appraising modified classics. It remains to be seen if this will be adopted and if so how it might settle down but in reality I just can't see any prejudice towards classics that have been re-shelled, been subject to engine conversions or changed drums to discs etc as part of their natural life cycle. At the other extreme, anyone who purchases a dated V5 with the intention of creating a car to attach to it should be wary.

[tapkaJohnD]

The actual DVLA page no longer refers to the points system.
see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-ve...

John

[thegreenhell]

tapkaJohnD said:

The actual DVLA page no longer refers to the points system.
see https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/rebuilt-ve...

John

It's still there, but now under the title "radically altered vehicle"

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...

[Bobo W]

b2hbm said:

I would think you can replace the engine and still retain classic status. There's a small amount of this going on in the Lotus world, Spyder for example replace the Lotus TC engine in the Elan +2 with a Zetec (?) and IIRC there was a series of articles in one of the classic car mags when they took on such a project car. I don't remember that changing registration.

Also Banks Engineering (Southport, Lotus Europa specialists) have had several engines in the classic Europa over the years, ranging from a Smart car engine to the Vauxhall 2L. Zetec is another popular swap and all those I've seen have retained their original registrations.

I'm guessing the DVLA doesn't look too closely at such mods other than acknowledging the change on the log book. I would have thought that if you were putting in a modern, more powerful engine then you'd also look at brakes, wheels, suspension & drivetrain which takes out a lot of that list !

A friend has a Banks 47 - it has a new shell, gearbox, VX engine, Spyder châssis, new wheels etc. but at least it still has the original badge, steering wheel and dashboard, a bit like Triggers broom - still classed as a 1972 car though

[FlipFlopGriff]

I've got a 1974 Land Rover with and SD1 V8 (put in in 1996, previously a 2.5 petrol) and it is classed as an Historic Vehicle, ie no tax to pay.
FFG

[Speed 3]

FlipFlopGriff said:

I've got a 1974 Land Rover with and SD1 V8 (put in in 1996, previously a 2.5 petrol) and it is classed as an Historic Vehicle, ie no tax to pay.
FFG

Aren't they of the same vintage ?

[Renn Sport]

I squeezed a Subaru flat 6 SVX engine into my old VW Bus T25/T3. It was lovely thing to bimble around on the torque, however I think I made it too powerful.

I wish I had never sold it. I really made a mistake.

I have another VW T25 now and its a 5 speed and am planning on converting that to a 1.8 20v Turbo. All hidden but the reliable high torque power will be a welcome addition. Shame its not a Syncro.



I am thinking of buying a 90's or early 2000 Chevy Camaro and transplanting the engine and gearbox into my 55 Chevy Bel-Air. Not 100% on that decision as I may just refresh the current engine and box. However I like the idea of a full on resto-mod.

[Hugo a Gogo]

nice, but a 55 Chev came with a small block, and there'd be an infinite number of ways to get an up to date one in there, without having to chop up a Camaro, even an unloved one

[OverSteery]

Renn Sport said:

however I think I made it too powerful.

How dare you say that here!

[aeropilot]

Renn Sport said:

I am thinking of buying a 90's or early 2000 Chevy Camaro and transplanting the engine and gearbox into my 55 Chevy Bel-Air. Not 100% on that decision as I may just refresh the current engine and box. However I like the idea of a full on resto-mod.

A full on resto-mod on a '55 would have to include something like an Art Morrison chassis to go with the LS motor etc., and while I can see the attraction.....sort of......just sticking a LS into a '55 akin to blasphemy to me.
A 383 Stroker with a T400 or Tremec is about as modern a drivetrain I'd go that looks good with a '55.
But then I'm an old git and stuck in a different era

[Hugo a Gogo]

I'd go big block and a few subtle mods

[Renn Sport]

OverSteery said:

Renn Sport said:

however I think I made it too powerful.

How dare you say that here!

I think too much power or in this case Torque and engine weight changed the feel of the bus a touch too much. In the end I felt a regular flat four 2.2 or 2.5 NA would have done the job. Also I had to kill a complete SVX, which felt guilty about but it would have ended up at the scrappers anyway.

aeropilot said:

A full on resto-mod on a '55 would have to include something like an Art Morrison chassis to go with the LS motor etc., and while I can see the attraction.....sort of......just sticking a LS into a '55 akin to blasphemy to me.
A 383 Stroker with a T400 or Tremec is about as modern a drivetrain I'd go that looks good with a '55.
But then I'm an old git and stuck in a different era

lol Not really. The limit is how you define it.

LS engine, box and rear axle. No other mods apart from the ones I have currently (not fitted)suspension upgrade with bilstiens lowered springs, Wilwood brakes all around and rack and pinion steering. Perhaps some aircon.

Apart from the hidden drive train upgrade from the outside and inside I want the car too look standard. Factory black.

17" Torque Thrust or Halibrand wheels and the job is done.

I'll probably do the mods first and see how I gel with the standard drive train, however I would prefer reliable modern power. I want to drive this with my kids to Spa and LeMans. Modern power is so much easier.

[S47]

Modern engine into any classic is the way forward if you want to use the car often.
Modern EFI engines use less fuel, start when required, and require less maintenance.
Modern engines probably give twice the power and only use half as much fuel as one of the old 'boat anchor' engines, use a modern 5 speed gearbox as well for decent motorway cruising.
It's well worth the effort whatever classic you own
Just be prepared for the sad anoraks[who trailer their classic everwhere] to poo poo the idea

[lowdrag]

Is this what you mean?

[Mercky]

Speed 3 said:

FlipFlopGriff said:

I've got a 1974 Land Rover with and SD1 V8 (put in in 1996, previously a 2.5 petrol) and it is classed as an Historic Vehicle, ie no tax to pay.
FFG

Aren't they of the same vintage ?

No

[a8hex]

lowdrag said:

Is this what you mean?

Wasn't there a comment above about "too much power" ?

[Penguinracer]

Some of the resto-mods in the Merc world are truly impressive & entirely sympathetic to the car's pedigree.
AMG 55 motors, gearboxes, brakes and diffs into W111 & W112 coupes and cabriolets anyone?

I think as long as you try to keep the appearance (inside & out) as standard as possible but stick with later same brand mechanicals - what's not to like?
Tim