Car downgrade squabble
Discussion
Long story short - I have a six-month old Seat Mii (= VW Up) 6K miles which I hate. I have fallen in love with a smart-looking local Fiat 500 which has all the spec I want. It is a 2010 model with over 50K miles on. I could make the swap and pretty much lose no money. My wife, though, refuses to entertain the idea, thinking it’s crazy to change a newer car for an older one, and that a car of that age is pretty much on its last legs. My feeling is a 7-year-old car with that mileage is a perfectly practical and economic proposition.
What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
2010 will be barely 7 years old. Fiat 500's are very mechanically simple so if there is anything wrong with it it will be very cheap and easy to fix.
I wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
I wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
gert biggens said:
My wife, though, refuses to entertain the idea,
What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
You are either very brave or very stupid What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
The minute anything goes wrong with the Fiat your life won't be worth living, especially if the Seat would still have been in warranty.
You need to pick your fights and this isn't one of them
Ransoman said:
2010 will be barely 7 years old. Fiat 500's are very mechanically simple so if there is anything wrong with it it will be very cheap and easy to fix.
I wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
No they are not, they are fragile unreliable pieces of crap plagued with electrical issues, we have had a couple in the family and they have been complete sI wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
te.Monkeylegend said:
gert biggens said:
My wife, though, refuses to entertain the idea,
What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
You are either very brave or very stupid What’s the Petrolhead concensus?
The minute anything goes wrong with the Fiat your life won't be worth living, especially if the Seat would still have been in warranty.
You need to pick your fights and this isn't one of them
there is literally no possible way of you coming out of this one unscathed.
Ignoring the politics of it all for a second, I am with your wife. A car like that wants to be as new as possible, they are built as cheap as possible, they are not built to last. Yours still has loads of warranty etc which is probably the best bit about it. Wait until you can get a proper upgrade and then go for it.
The politics with the wife make it a no brainer.
The politics with the wife make it a no brainer.
Jazoli said:
No they are not, they are fragile unreliable pieces of crap plagued with electrical issues, we have had a couple in the family and they have been complete ste.
Difference here is I know how to fix Fiats. Almost any fault on a 500 can be fixed in less than an hour for beer money and simple tools. Strut top mounts and drop links are common and are cheap and easy to fix. Electrical problems are almost always earth, battery or alternator. Oil leaks are only ever an £8 gasket or a £12 hose. The timing belts just keep on going (I changed a 10 year old one a few months ago) and the body is galvanised so rust isn't an issue.te.Sure you can't neglect them but they are far from unreliable.
TC, check out the Abarth if you want to go a little more Pistonheads
Your wifely person needs to know that older cars are not necessarily unreliable money pits. If a car has been well looked-after, there's no reason it can't continue to run for a very long time.
My own car isn't necessarily the best example of this; it's a 15-year-old Peugeot 406 Coupe, which I bought when it was 8.5 years old and had done 63,000 miles on. I've spent a fair amount of money maintaining it. The issue is not that it's French, or st or anything. It was just not particularly well maintained under previous ownership (I've had to pay to get various bodges properly repaired with new parts, etc).
One of the guys on the 406 Owners Club forums recently bumped into the guy who he sold his first 406 to when the car was 10 years old. The car is now 15 years old and has done more than 270,000 miles, and still appears as/functions brilliantly, as it did when it was brand new. The 406 is generally a well-built platform, with a range of very reliable engines and gearboxes; if something wears out and needs replaced on them, chances are the same part would need replacing on a more expensive car of the same age.
If you want a different car, great. If you want an older car, that's not a bad thing necessarily. You could buy a brand new Dacia for about £6000 but if you spend £6000 on a used car, you can end up with something much better, so long as you do your homework and buy something with a good reputation for reliability that has been properly looked after by its former owners. Take her along for a test drive with a good one and make her see for herself that there's nothing wrong with it.
My own car isn't necessarily the best example of this; it's a 15-year-old Peugeot 406 Coupe, which I bought when it was 8.5 years old and had done 63,000 miles on. I've spent a fair amount of money maintaining it. The issue is not that it's French, or s
t or anything. It was just not particularly well maintained under previous ownership (I've had to pay to get various bodges properly repaired with new parts, etc).One of the guys on the 406 Owners Club forums recently bumped into the guy who he sold his first 406 to when the car was 10 years old. The car is now 15 years old and has done more than 270,000 miles, and still appears as/functions brilliantly, as it did when it was brand new. The 406 is generally a well-built platform, with a range of very reliable engines and gearboxes; if something wears out and needs replaced on them, chances are the same part would need replacing on a more expensive car of the same age.
If you want a different car, great. If you want an older car, that's not a bad thing necessarily. You could buy a brand new Dacia for about £6000 but if you spend £6000 on a used car, you can end up with something much better, so long as you do your homework and buy something with a good reputation for reliability that has been properly looked after by its former owners. Take her along for a test drive with a good one and make her see for herself that there's nothing wrong with it.
bungz said:
The economics of this are not really sound.
What makes the fiat 500 better than the Mii for a day to day poverty chariot? Especially when its 6 and a half years older.
Fiat 7 years old and reliable are rarely used together.
Probably as often as VAG, 7 Years old and reliable, potentially more often. OP, don't swap, buy alongside if that's what you want. Win win. What makes the fiat 500 better than the Mii for a day to day poverty chariot? Especially when its 6 and a half years older.
Fiat 7 years old and reliable are rarely used together.
Those price difference figures don't look right for a basic 500.
6 month old Seat = about 7k
2010 fiat 500 with 50k = about 3,500
2010 ABARTH = about 6500-7k
We might be talking Abarth here gents. (Unless OP is talking after finance arrangements)
6 month old Seat = about 7k
2010 fiat 500 with 50k = about 3,500
2010 ABARTH = about 6500-7k
We might be talking Abarth here gents. (Unless OP is talking after finance arrangements)
Edited by TVRJAS on Wednesday 22 February 16:08
Thanks for your opinions everyone - food for thouht.
A CAR IS NOT WORTH PICKING A FIGHT OVER???? :-]
I find it harsh, badly made, ill-thought-out and poorly equipped.
Prior to that I had a Panda 100HP. That was an awesome car - rock-solid, loaded with kit, ergonomic and a hoot to own and drive. Then it got written off, and it was pretty much the better half's idea to go for the Seat, instead of a replacement 100HP.
I am swayed by the 500 as the one I have my eye on is a nice colour (that's important to me - I am a designer), has ace wheels (that's important to me - I am a Petrolhead), a good stereo (that's important to me - I am a musician), bags of kit and nice trim. In short, it turns me on. It drove beautifully and felt right for me.
The Seat’s engine is adequate but unrefined and uninspiring, bearing in mind the resources that must have gone into it. The dashboard looks as if it came from a Russian truck. The pathetic randomly-spaced digital readout uses RED digits! Red - the warning colour. I see it in my peripheral vision and think “uh-oh, what’s broken? Ah no… 12 degrees.” You have to REACH THROUGH THE STEERING WHEEL to change the display. The speedo is the size of a dinner-plate (why?) whereas the ancilliary dials are the size (again, why?) of a lady's watch.
OP sacrilegiously doesn’t need the performance - or insurance bills - of an Abarth.
OP was VERY HAPPY with the performance level of the Panda 100HP - quick enough to have fun but not enough to dump the OP into the hedges.
6 month old Seat was bought ex-demo for about 6K. WBAC initial offer for it was 5K. Fiat 500 (well above basic spec) is 5K windscreen price. I’m not grumbling about either of those.
Monkeylegend said:
You are either very brave or very stupid
The minute anything goes wrong with the Fiat your life won't be worth living, especially if the Seat would still have been in warranty.
You need to pick your fights and this isn't one of them
Hullo? Hullo?? I though this was Pistonheads??The minute anything goes wrong with the Fiat your life won't be worth living, especially if the Seat would still have been in warranty.
You need to pick your fights and this isn't one of them
A CAR IS NOT WORTH PICKING A FIGHT OVER???? :-]
Dolf Stoppard said:
What is it you hate about the Mii and are you sure the Fiat will give you what you want? For example, if you think the Mii is poor quality, will a seven year old 500 really be any better? Are there any changes you can make to the Mii to perhaps improve things?
I expected the Seat to be as the reviews said, the class-leading baby car.I find it harsh, badly made, ill-thought-out and poorly equipped.
Prior to that I had a Panda 100HP. That was an awesome car - rock-solid, loaded with kit, ergonomic and a hoot to own and drive. Then it got written off, and it was pretty much the better half's idea to go for the Seat, instead of a replacement 100HP.
I am swayed by the 500 as the one I have my eye on is a nice colour (that's important to me - I am a designer), has ace wheels (that's important to me - I am a Petrolhead), a good stereo (that's important to me - I am a musician), bags of kit and nice trim. In short, it turns me on. It drove beautifully and felt right for me.
The Seat’s engine is adequate but unrefined and uninspiring, bearing in mind the resources that must have gone into it. The dashboard looks as if it came from a Russian truck. The pathetic randomly-spaced digital readout uses RED digits! Red - the warning colour. I see it in my peripheral vision and think “uh-oh, what’s broken? Ah no… 12 degrees.” You have to REACH THROUGH THE STEERING WHEEL to change the display. The speedo is the size of a dinner-plate (why?) whereas the ancilliary dials are the size (again, why?) of a lady's watch.
Dave Hedgehog said:
do what she says
otherwise sometime in 2037 - "i told you not to get that, just like i told you not to buy that fiat"
Well… ^this^, of course… which goes without saying…otherwise sometime in 2037 - "i told you not to get that, just like i told you not to buy that fiat"
Ransoman said:
2010 will be barely 7 years old. Fiat 500's are very mechanically simple so if there is anything wrong with it it will be very cheap and easy to fix.
I wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
That was my opinion. I would happily go for a newer one but this is a colour and spec which is no longer available.I wouldn't hesitate, although at this price bracket I might prefer to go brand new simply because 500's have held their value well and there are some great deals around.
bungz said:
The economics of this are not really sound.
What makes the fiat 500 better than the Mii for a day to day poverty chariot? Especially when its 6 and a half years older.
Fiat 7 years old and reliable are rarely used together.
You might be forgiven for thinking that. The Panda 100HP, though, was a reliability monster, no problems in 9 years. I would have had another one but that idea was also Firmly Vetoed.What makes the fiat 500 better than the Mii for a day to day poverty chariot? Especially when its 6 and a half years older.
Fiat 7 years old and reliable are rarely used together.
Greg_D said:
the petrolhead consensus is buy an mx5. if you must drive round in a girls cars, at least make it a good one...
I like the cut of your jib. I’m done with convertibles though… had a Suzuki Cappuccino for 9 years which was great but I didn’t have the roof off often enough. Plus when I drove an MX5 after that it seemed huge…TVRJAS said:
Those price difference figures don't look right for a basic 500.
6 month old Seat = about 7k
2010 fiat 500 with 50k = about 3,500
2010 ABARTH = about 6500-7k
We might be talking Abarth here gents. (Unless OP is talking after finance arrangements)
OP wishes he was talking about an Abarth LOL ROFL SmileyFace…6 month old Seat = about 7k
2010 fiat 500 with 50k = about 3,500
2010 ABARTH = about 6500-7k
We might be talking Abarth here gents. (Unless OP is talking after finance arrangements)
Edited by TVRJAS on Wednesday 22 February 16:08
OP sacrilegiously doesn’t need the performance - or insurance bills - of an Abarth.
OP was VERY HAPPY with the performance level of the Panda 100HP - quick enough to have fun but not enough to dump the OP into the hedges.
6 month old Seat was bought ex-demo for about 6K. WBAC initial offer for it was 5K. Fiat 500 (well above basic spec) is 5K windscreen price. I’m not grumbling about either of those.
as always with threads of this type, you were looking for affirmation of your position.
I get that, i really do, but we impartial observers can see nothing but danger signs, you appear to be immune to SWT venom so crack on and get the fiat.
But by all that is holy, please god post pictures (or preferably a video) of her reaction when you pull up... you will at least get £250 from YBF to go towards any repair costs... or more likely 5 days in a travelodge while she cools down! hahahaha, you're fked
I get that, i really do, but we impartial observers can see nothing but danger signs, you appear to be immune to SWT venom so crack on and get the fiat.
But by all that is holy, please god post pictures (or preferably a video) of her reaction when you pull up... you will at least get £250 from YBF to go towards any repair costs... or more likely 5 days in a travelodge while she cools down! hahahaha, you're f
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