New vs. older Macbook Pro
Discussion
Previous generation keyboards and trackpads are nicer to use, and connectivity far better. I'd get a decent spec previous generation Macbook Pro if wedded to Apple.
I switched back to Windows last November after being a long time Mac laptop user - their new machines are simply too expensive for what you get, and some of their design decisions have crossed the line I'm happy with between form and function (the crap keyboard they now use is to shave mm's off the depth, as are the connectors).
I now have a Dell XPS13. It's a great little machine and, in essence, updates the Macbook Pro formula in a sensible direction.
She should also consider software as others have mentioned. New licenses could mean a chunk of extra outlay.
I switched back to Windows last November after being a long time Mac laptop user - their new machines are simply too expensive for what you get, and some of their design decisions have crossed the line I'm happy with between form and function (the crap keyboard they now use is to shave mm's off the depth, as are the connectors).
I now have a Dell XPS13. It's a great little machine and, in essence, updates the Macbook Pro formula in a sensible direction.
She should also consider software as others have mentioned. New licenses could mean a chunk of extra outlay.
thebraketester said:
The only problem stopping me from getting a windows based laptop is the fact you have to use windows. I would rather chew my arm off than have to use windows everyday.
What do you not like about it out of interest? I', not trying to start an argument, it's a genuine question. I use OSX day to day on my desktop and laptop, but I also have a Windows desktop and it really isn't all that bad. Sure, I'm not used to all it's functions so sometimes I have to look up how to do things but that's about as inconvenient as it gets really.
A late 2015 one will suit her fine and will be to all intents and purposes the same as the new one, and in some areas might be less frustrating.
The new one lacks MagSafe, USB-A without dongles, the Touchbar runs the gamut from "ehh" to "ooh" (but still feels like a solution looking for a problem), the keyboard travel is something you'll either love or struggle with imo, and has empirically shorter battery life doing the same things than the previous model. I say that as someone with poor self control who bought a fully loaded one at launch.
The new one lacks MagSafe, USB-A without dongles, the Touchbar runs the gamut from "ehh" to "ooh" (but still feels like a solution looking for a problem), the keyboard travel is something you'll either love or struggle with imo, and has empirically shorter battery life doing the same things than the previous model. I say that as someone with poor self control who bought a fully loaded one at launch.
leglessAlex said:
thebraketester said:
The only problem stopping me from getting a windows based laptop is the fact you have to use windows. I would rather chew my arm off than have to use windows everyday.
What do you not like about it out of interest? I', not trying to start an argument, it's a genuine question. I use OSX day to day on my desktop and laptop, but I also have a Windows desktop and it really isn't all that bad. Sure, I'm not used to all it's functions so sometimes I have to look up how to do things but that's about as inconvenient as it gets really.
RobDickinson said:
Yep 10 min with the laptop should identify if its cpu or memory
Make sure what software she uses is available on mac too
^^^^ THIS! All day long - make sure it works with what she needs!Make sure what software she uses is available on mac too
Pretty important that the s/w she uses will be compatible: if most/all on her course are on Windoze boxes, get a fast one of those & save a packet!
If she would need to purchase Apple versions of s/w, your costs will continue to rise!
thebraketester said:
I find MacOS far more stable, faster and generally more pleasant to use. I've had a macs for about 12 years and never once had a virus or major OS issue. Back in the days of windows, I used to have to do a fresh install every year or so.
I have to agree with this too....I have a 2015 MBPr and they are lovely machines to use....the quality exceeds most windows units I have used, although I haven't been on some of the more recent efforts.
I had to use my old Lenovo work unit reently (which has more memory, same CPU!) and it was night and day, reminded me why I move to Mac....
....BUT their prices are (even more) crazy these days, plus the lack of connectivity on everything coming out of Cupertino drives me up the wall (it is NOT Pro if you have a bag of dongles!) - now means my next move may well be back to windows.
I do like little things like how Time Machine protects my data unobtrusively makes a big difference: I always ask my kids "what if that machine just stopped working" - use cloud storage, use time machine, try to have backups in two places so you are not crying at lost work!
Let us know how you chose!
ecs said:
Which applications is she using? You mention 3D rendering is slow, that would suggest you need something with a certified graphics card (most CAD software will tell you which GPU you should be using, it's generally not a gaming/general purpose one).
This.Most normal specced laptops will struggle with higher end 3D rendering (especially if it's real time, as that's GPU heavy).
Looking at a desktop config, an i3 4GB RAM with a 200GBP GPU will run circles around an i7 16GB with integrated graphics when it comes to real time 3D rendering.
ZesPak said:
ecs said:
Which applications is she using? You mention 3D rendering is slow, that would suggest you need something with a certified graphics card (most CAD software will tell you which GPU you should be using, it's generally not a gaming/general purpose one).
This.Most normal specced laptops will struggle with higher end 3D rendering (especially if it's real time, as that's GPU heavy).
Looking at a desktop config, an i3 4GB RAM with a 200GBP GPU will run circles around an i7 16GB with integrated graphics when it comes to real time 3D rendering.
Sketchup uses a mix of GPU and CPU. Most GPU heavy things (shades and the likes) however, can be turned off (needed to do that on my old laptop).
AFAIK, sketchup is only set up for one core. So a gazillion core i7 will make no difference whatsoever.
So not as clear cut as "buy an i7 and loads of ram".
AFAIK, sketchup is only set up for one core. So a gazillion core i7 will make no difference whatsoever.
So not as clear cut as "buy an i7 and loads of ram".
& indeed certainly the mobile macbook line has no options on GPU other than take what you have...easier to spec up a custom-build laptop I would suspect.
but apple are shiny shiny
(he says, from his shiny shiny mac!)
Certainly when it has any intense work the fan can whirr up and the case get quite warm (more when I have a virtual machine running, tbh, but then my graphics work is pretty basic)
I would also say that Microsoft Office products don't work brilliantly on Mac....always some funny quirks going on....
but apple are shiny shiny
(he says, from his shiny shiny mac!)
Certainly when it has any intense work the fan can whirr up and the case get quite warm (more when I have a virtual machine running, tbh, but then my graphics work is pretty basic)
I would also say that Microsoft Office products don't work brilliantly on Mac....always some funny quirks going on....
thebraketester said:
leglessAlex said:
thebraketester said:
The only problem stopping me from getting a windows based laptop is the fact you have to use windows. I would rather chew my arm off than have to use windows everyday.
What do you not like about it out of interest? I', not trying to start an argument, it's a genuine question. I use OSX day to day on my desktop and laptop, but I also have a Windows desktop and it really isn't all that bad. Sure, I'm not used to all it's functions so sometimes I have to look up how to do things but that's about as inconvenient as it gets really.
I wish I could stay with Mac, but as mikeiow said, their prices are just silly now and I just can't justify it, even if I could afford it (I can't). I've been pretty impressed with Windows laptops recently too, the XPS models I have tried have been really good and a comparable 15" model is £1000 cheaper. One. Thousand. Pounds. Oh, and I get a much better GPU in the XPS as well as the option for 32GB of ram.
I'm sure I'll always have a Mac around the place for casual use, but these days I struggle to recommend one unless you really need it.
I'm derailing this topic, apologies OP. I'll stop now.
thebraketester said:
I find MacOS far more stable, faster and generally more pleasant to use. I've had a macs for about 12 years and never once had a virus or major OS issue. Back in the days of windows, I used to have to do a fresh install every year or so.
4mths in and I think the game has moved on with Windows.I could be tempting fate, but I've had no issues at all thus far. The built in AV (Defender) is unobtrusive and the firewall just inquisitive enough.
I haven't any more need to restart the machine than I did on my old Mac.
I also haven't found the need for any more software updates than on MacOS. In fact I'd say there have been less thus far.
There are things that don't yet work as well. Gesture support is one. I think I also prefer the fonts and general feel of the windows etc, but that's a minor perception and very subjective.
Some things are significantly easier on Windows too. Connectivity with my Android phone for one. And the less "controlling" nature of it. OSX and the built in apps work best if you conform to Apple's view on what you should do - for many things I got used to this (e.g. iTunes). For others I never did (iPhoto etc).
There was much about MacOS that I didn't actually use (Launchpad, Spaces etc), so in normal use the overall feel of Windows 10 is little different to OSX.
In short, MacOS simply is not worth paying double for a laptop IMO. And I was a user of it from the day OSX was launched more or less (as it handled video editing/cameras far far better back then. Not so now) and still have a number of machines running it around the house for other purposes.
thebraketester said:
I find MacOS far more stable, faster and generally more pleasant to use.
I always wonder about this.I've used windows since its inception. Since windows XP I cna barely remember an (OS) crash and since windows 7 it really takes broken hardware to take it down. Even the gpu driver has been moved out of the kernel and can be recovered from.
Mind you this is only from working on it 40 hours a week in commercial development jobs plus gaming and 'creative' work outside (photo/video processing etc). Oh on multiple levels of hardware including self builds, company desktops and a range of laptops.
Mind you this is only with pushing the hardware to the max/overclocking and running a heavy pro/workstation load plus gaming etc. Perhaps if I partook of some typical apple work ( web browsing for polo necks?) it'd struggle...
Faster? For what? The things I use tend to be faster on windows even given equivalent hardware, apple tax usually means you can get far more bang for your buck in windows.
More pleasant to use? Possibly. Subjective though as windows xp->7->8-10 have greatly changed how things work and even between them there is substantial differences, even just on windows 10 it changes if you have a touch enabled device.
Personally I've not bothered with windows 10, far to many downsides for the upside, but I'll be dragged into it one day its inevitable.
Oh a windows fanboi I hear. Well no. I hated the earlier versions, despised microsoft, came from an amiga/unix background. I've also developed on OSX and for iOS and been quite critical of the s
tty tactics and ideas around windows 10.
I've used both in the past, have moved completely to Windows mainly because I need a number of windows only applications,but also because I didn't feel my MacBook was worth the premium in hindsight (at the time I wouldn't have said so of course ).
But, I find it odd people get annoyed by either OS. Imho once you're in your apps, they are just near as makes no difference the same.
My previous laptop was a Samsung ultrabook and it wasn't better than my Macbook before that, but it was also half the price and lasted just as long. It had little connectivity and I don't see myself going back to a life with dongles anytime soon.
My current xps15, about 1500 € is about the best laptop I've ever owned. It's also a price I feel comfortable with paying every 3 to 4 years.
). But, I find it odd people get annoyed by either OS. Imho once you're in your apps, they are just near as makes no difference the same.
My previous laptop was a Samsung ultrabook and it wasn't better than my Macbook before that, but it was also half the price and lasted just as long. It had little connectivity and I don't see myself going back to a life with dongles anytime soon.
My current xps15, about 1500 € is about the best laptop I've ever owned. It's also a price I feel comfortable with paying every 3 to 4 years.
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