First phone for 11yo

[NiceCupOfTea]

Thanks all, some useful thoughts here.

- Social media is completely out for the foreseeable, and she’s not interested anyway (currently).
- I am undecided about WhatsApp. It would be useful for family chats. The school don’t use it officially, but it seems that classes have a WhatsApp chat group for homework etc. I am well aware of bullying risks, but fear that she will get left out if she’s not in this group. WhatsApp can be locked down quite a bit (not being autoadded to groups, etc,) which we will be doing.
- a Nokia is an option but seems a bit silly as the other things she currently uses a tablet for (youtube etc.) could all be kept on one device.
- I’ve only had my (second hand!) iPhone 12 Pro Max a year or so and bought it needing it to last 4 years minimum for it to make sense. A 2020 SE is much cheaper - it’ll get a decent case/screen protector. She’s a pretty careful kid and I think she’ll look after it, but if she doesn’t then she’ll learn!

There will be limits/rules in places and she knows we will be doing spot checks. If I’m honest she checks stuff with us all the time anyway. Again, I’m aware that things will change as she gets older and tests the limits.

The thing that concerns me most is bullying etc. She had a proper falling out today with her best friend of 6 years and it has really hit her hard as she knows things have been going on behind her back. This will of course happen with bells on with WhatsApp etc. - but as somebody pointed out, not having a phone won’t stop it happening.

It’s such a tough world for kids to grow up in now. Things were so much easier for us.

[dcb]

NiceCupOfTea said:

It’s such a tough world for kids to grow up in now. Things were so much easier for us.

Indeed they were: rickets, TB, malnutrition, no internet and only three channels
on the idiot box ;->

The Ken Loach film "Kes" gives a clue to life in the 1960s. I recommend it
to all youngsters to understand what the senior generation are banging on about.

It's all gone downhill since that nice Mr Heath ran the place ;->

[dcb]

GlenMH said:

But being a Nokia, it just clicks back together

I see Giff Gaff are doing the Nokia 105 for £29 brand new or £9 second hand.
It looks to be a perfectly reasonable first phone.

Link that up with a really low monthly data limit (about £6) and that looks
the way forward for the more careful amongst us.

[GlenMH]

dcb said:

I see Giff Gaff are doing the Nokia 105 for £29 brand new or £9 second hand.
It looks to be a perfectly reasonable first phone.

Link that up with a really low monthly data limit (about £6) and that looks
the way forward for the more careful amongst us.

The Argos Nokia is 60 quid new but it does have snake...

[mattstr675]

Following this as I have a 9.5 year old who will be more than likely getting her own phone in the next 12 months or so. The thought quite frankly terrifies me!

I like the idea of an older non smart phone but, as I think someone has already mentioned, this could well be used as a tool by school bullies.

We will prob go the route of an old smart phone from me/ mrs/ family. Then pick up a cheap monthly sim.

[theboss]

Hedgedhog said:

Make sure you have parental controls and think about whether she should have it 24/7. I deeply regret giving my eldest a phone at a relatively young age. That generation are blighted by an inability to concentrate or focus due to over phone use and exposure and I wish I could take it back.

I just wanted to echo these words.

My 15 year old has taken an overdose, moved secondary schools twice and is having major problems on all fronts health, socially, academic and in all-round personal development.

Unfortunately her mother and I separated and divorced when she was 7, I was wary of phones and implemented screen time when she was under my icloud family… her mother is far more permissive, bought new phones then took her icloud identity under her own management…. Cue totally unrestricted access from about 12.

Largely as a result of my strict stance I have become near enough completely estranged and my daughter very rarely chooses to see me let alone stay overnight.

I wish I could throw the damn thing out of the window.

Even the ones who don’t have crippling mental health issues are turning out braindead.

[NiceCupOfTea]

Sorry to hear that theboss, sounds awful

We would definitely be limiting screen time. At the moment she’s borrowing my wife’s ipad for Toca World etc and my MacBook for SIMS 4. Even if she had her own device we’d be limiting it. It is very worrying though as whilst she’s fine now and on board, they grow up so quickly and she could be a different person in 6 months. I work in schools a lot, and I see it all the time, especially with girls - recent experiences of lovely kids starting in year 7 and within 6 months they are withdrawing, sullen, eating disorders, mental health problems etc. There’s a lot of factors at play of course, especially with changes of school and puberty etc but screen time/online bullying/lack of social interaction is definitely something to think about.

On balance I suspect we will go with a s/h iPhone SE, lock it down tight, not in her room (certainly overnight, maybe at all for now), random spot checks, no social media, and limited WhatsApp. As has been said though, it’s almost impossible to go back once these things have been given…. It’s not something we’re entering into lightly.

One thing that did shock me, I have a good contract with EE (I am ex-Plusnet so they threw deals at me to keep me) and adding my daughter even on the most meagre deal will double the prices and be a 24-mo contract (currently paying about £11 for 20GB on a rolling 30 day!). Is this just what it costs now or is it worth looking at PAYG? I thought having her on my contract might make it easier to keep a handle on and monitor…

[skinnyman]

Our son goes up to secondary school in August, so he'll be needing a phone then. My wife works for a charity that deals with sexual abuse & exploitation of children, so she's very switched on to the dangers of social media and the internet in general.

We got him a Samsung tablet for Christmas, for him, but also to gives us some practice with regards to screen time restrictions, parental controls etc. He has a Google account that sits under mine as a child's account, so we can use the Google Family app to control access to apps & restricted content. It's working well so far. We've found that talking to him about what's expected of him has worked well, giving some ownership of his decisions rather than just blocking everything outright. Sounds corny, but communication is key

[theboss]

NiceCupOfTea said:

Sorry to hear that theboss, sounds awful

We would definitely be limiting screen time. At the moment she’s borrowing my wife’s ipad for Toca World etc and my MacBook for SIMS 4. Even if she had her own device we’d be limiting it. It is very worrying though as whilst she’s fine now and on board, they grow up so quickly and she could be a different person in 6 months. I work in schools a lot, and I see it all the time, especially with girls - recent experiences of lovely kids starting in year 7 and within 6 months they are withdrawing, sullen, eating disorders, mental health problems etc. There’s a lot of factors at play of course, especially with changes of school and puberty etc but screen time/online bullying/lack of social interaction is definitely something to think about.

On balance I suspect we will go with a s/h iPhone SE, lock it down tight, not in her room (certainly overnight, maybe at all for now), random spot checks, no social media, and limited WhatsApp. As has been said though, it’s almost impossible to go back once these things have been given…. It’s not something we’re entering into lightly.

One thing that did shock me, I have a good contract with EE (I am ex-Plusnet so they threw deals at me to keep me) and adding my daughter even on the most meagre deal will double the prices and be a 24-mo contract (currently paying about £11 for 20GB on a rolling 30 day!). Is this just what it costs now or is it worth looking at PAYG? I thought having her on my contract might make it easier to keep a handle on and monitor…

The most important thing is consistency in stance between parents whether living together or not.

As soon as my ex bought them new phones it because a case of "Mum said she paid for the phones therefore she gets to manage the accounts" and then all restrictions were removed and nothing I could do about it.

I have pleaded with her to restrict time, curtail access to devices at night and so on.

"X (my daughter) hasn't gone into school today, she's really struggling, unmotivated, they've marked it as a mental health day"

And then somebody in my family (I'm blocked on social media so I can't see) will say my daughter was online on Insta/Tiktok/whatever at 0400

Total sleep deprivation and inability to regulate online activity yet the mental health card is played the moment they don't want to be hauled into school at 8am after 3 hours sleep.

We've also had a bullying campaign stemming from capture and dissemination of indecent images which have gone around the school, police involved yet no firm action despite all the evidence of how these pictures were taken and shared. Essentially my daughter thought she was on an audio/loudspeaker call without realising the video was rolling and took a shower whilst still talking with the phone propped up on the bathroom cabinet. Screenshots then taken by the 'friend' and distributed. The photos corroborate this (my ex has seen them) but again all down to the fact that they literally can't perform any action even going to the bathroom and showering without simultaneously being 'online' - an easily avoidable mistake to make on my daughter's part.

I have a 19 year old stepdaughter, obviously now a grown adult, who seems somewhat more functional and is holding down part time work in addition to study, but again the phone is in hand literally no matter what they are doing. They can't even stir a pot noodle without simultaneously swiping on something or being in a call with somebody.

I have nephews in their early teens who are into gaming but seem to have no interest in Social Media and are more inclined to go outside and enjoy karting, shooting and so on. It's a much bigger problem for young women.

[PurpleTurtle]

OP, I know you asked for the thread to focus on the device technicalities not to get dragged off-piste into the dangers of social media, but it seems it's going this way, the two are intrinsically linked.

This happened in a park half a mile away from me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Olly_Steph...

We were walking as a family in the park about 45 minutes beforehand, unaware of the horror that was about to take place. All of it was orchestrated over social media. The girl who arranged it went to the primary that our son now goes to. My colleague took his daughter to her 9th birthday party. He describes her back then as a delightful kid, yet less than four years later she had morphed into a spiteful bh (my colleague's daughter's words) over social media and orchestrated a murder committed by feral scum that she did not even know.

I appreciate it's an extreme case; the kid who did the stabbing was in the class of the daughter of a long-time friend of mine at a school the other side of Reading. He had been moved around various schools, was completely out of control and although ostensibly living with a 'professional' mother (parents long separated) he was allowed to run feral and basically live out a 'gangsta' lifestyle on social media. He was described to me by someone who taught him as the worst behaved child they had encountered in 30yrs of teaching. This wasn't a sink estate. This was the nicer suburbs of Reading where there is otherwise relatively little crime.

Full background to the perp here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-64...

My concern is that people like this get mobile phones. They have zero controls on what they access online, but we are powerless to stop them entering our kids' digital lives, so need to watch our kids phones like a hawk.

Sorry to get so serious: I realise that by giving your kid a phone you are trying to protect them, to keep them in touch. I am going to be the same. But I see Olly Stephens' dad in the local pub occasionally and he looks a broken man. I just don't want that to happen to anyone else, so do my bit of banging the drum to try to make people aware of the dangers that lurk beneath a screen.

[x5tuu]

And for all the doom and gloom there are many many millions of kids globally that have little limits and turn out fine.

There are and always have been exceptions to the “norm” but getting focussed on the minority isn’t helpful to anyone IMHO.

[Griffith4ever]

Hmmmm - we are non-parents but have plenty of nephews and neices.

One family that puts no limits on anything , time, or content - we don't talk to their 3 kids when we have family get togethers - pretty much ever - they are all burried in their phones, all of the time. One of the three has mental health issues.

Another family who are strict with not only phone use, but behaviour - their kids have always engaged and are told to put them away at the table etc. They are well adjusted and happy.

A snapshot, but a stark example.

Saying that, I've a grown up friend who I've had to ask to put his phone away when out at dinner, and another who'll engage with his phone whilst I'm mid sentence. I just stop until he realises the silence , then I will resume :-) If adults have a hard time ignoring the distraction of them god only knows how tough it is for kids.

It suprises me I keep reading them "timmy says all his friends have one and he'll be left out". I had exactly the same conversations about a VCR, bedroom TV, Atari console, etc. No was the answer, and I'm (debatably) fine.

Edited by Griffith4ever on Wednesday 3rd April 10:23

[dundarach]

No limits, had phones for a few years now - son 12, daughter 14.

Encourage them to leave phones when out and about.

Never have phones at table.

Happily let us use their phones and us theirs.

Open conversations about nasty stuff online.

Tell them not to be idiots when posting.

Really useful devices for keeping in touch with them, allowing us to nip to the pub for a swift one or two.

No issues.

[Lucky_Jim]

10 year olds with their own iPhones? Jesus

[dhutch]

Still Mulling said:

We’re happy with SE (2020).

Yeah, my wife had one till 2 years ago and it was a solid phone. I am an android user!

[dhutch]

popeyewhite said:

dave_s13 said:

Make sure they don't have access to Snapchat, X, Tiktok, insta etc ...they are poision for kids and the route of all bullying and general malaise.

The link between smartphone use and poor mental health outcomes with preteens is now well researched and considered proven. Similarly bullying.

Yeah, I am 36 and cant trust myself with Tiktok/Insta/etc although I do concede to Facebook and Youtube and have to work very hard to avoid getting stuck in a knot with the 'shorts' on said platforms.

[dhutch]

AndrewCrown said:

Have a look on Human Mobile Devices hmd.com

They bought back the Nokia business from Microsoft.

Oh nice!

https://www.hmd.com/

[spreadsheet monkey]

vikingaero said:

Get a decent case for whatever you get. Xmas 2022 and Vikingette2 hinted at a new phone as a joint Birthday (8th Dec) and Christmas present. I said yes but conditional that she used whatever case I got for it, not one of those wky fashion cases that are 0.1mm thick and do bugger all. So she go an iPhone 14 Pro Max with an Otterbox case. The phone she gave me back, an iPhone XS Max, was trashed with broken screen, sides etc because she used an anime fashion case.

.
Otterbox LOL. Tell me you’re a caver without telling me you’re a caver!

I use my iPhone 12 Pro Max with no case, just a screen protector

Answering the OP’s question, just get any cheap new Android phone. I got my son a Motorola E30 and it’s very tough and has a big screen and big battery.

[x5tuu]

Lucky_Jim said:

10 year olds with their own iPhones? Jesus

I don’t get this point at all?

It’s not uncommon at all (or wrong for that matter). Probably an easy 90% of my daughters primary school friends (Y4) have got iPhones for their 9th birthdays this school year.

Most got iPhone 12 models (my daughter included).

As it happens she did want a new case for it this week while away and the case she chose without any influence was an Otterbox slim case which looks very decent and not “otterbox-ish” at all.

[biggiles]

Mine get whatever oldish phone is spare. One has an iphone 7. Old, but works fine. In a reasonably tough case. And I know the passcode, just in case.

Biggest issue we had was whether to allow chat tools like Snapchat or Whatsapp. Don't underestimate the peer pressure when you hear "everyone else uses it, and I'm being left out".

I think so much of this depends on the child - and their group of friends.