Discussion
Thought I'd start a new thread for this, since it doesn't belong on the Vista thread....
It's unusable for me. Utter dealbreaker, which is chronically disappointing since I've been waiting for a 12" PB replacement for years (as have many others...)
There are only three external ports... one video output (micro DVI to DVI or VGA), one USB and an audio out. WTF were Apple thinking?
They do offer a USB to Ethernet adaptor, which means that if you're using either wired ethernet or USB broadband modem, there are ZERO USB ports for keydrives, optical drives, or any other form of expansion.
Utter crap. The ports look shrouded as well, so I'll bet that 'fat' USB keydrives won't fit. If only it had 3 USB ports (how bloody hard is that, Apple? FFS) then I'd be very interested and be saving up...
As it is, it's a fashion accessory that really can't be used for anything. Removing all the external ports is all very well and good but *everyone* needs network connectivity, and Wifi isn't everywhere. In the daily use of my laptops I'm always either connected to the network via wired ethernet or USB Vodafone modem, it's only at home that I have Wifi and the Intel Mac laptops have had constant problems with Atheros drivers, so I tend to plug into wired ethernet at home now.
Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep waiting for the true 12" powerbook replacement. As a 'companion laptop' i.e. not one you can use as a main machine, the Asus Eee makes the Macbook Air look rather silly. It also hands Asus a golden opportunity to slam a 10 inch high resolution screen in the current Eee, up the disk size a bit and sell for twice the price, and *still* look hugely cheap...
As I said, the irony is not lost on me. 
I admit it, I was very wrong and put my mistaken belief down in print.
The things that made me change my mind - firstly I've found a very nicely designed hub solution that makes the machine usable, and secondly Apple have wisely dumped the Atheros garbage for a Broadcom chipset in the Air. The wireless performance of the Air is nothing short of spectacular, compared to any of the other 5 Macs that I've used on my wireless network at home. Leithen's concern about the hinge - forget it - it feels like a solid plate of aluminium, there is NO flex at all. You can pick the entire laptop up by either of the bottom corners and there is NO flex. Try that with a 15" MBP at your peril. Even trying to bend the screen vigourously had no effect.
As to my last comment regarding the Air and the Eee - I have both. I was so far wrong with the comparison between the two that I couldn't be wronger if I tried. The Air is a stunning piece of industrial design and ergonomically superb (I didn't realise until I used it that the trackpad was basically an iPod Touch... it's big and does all the multi-touch stuff). It looks and feels more expensive than it is. The CPU runs at twice the clock rate of the Eee's, and has twice as many of them (cores). The integrated X3100 graphics aren't going to set the world on fire, but the chipset's a lot better than the GMA900 in the Eee and the GMA950 in the (older) Macbooks. And under hours of high load (me downloading a load of MacPorts source and compiling a load of hacker tools) the all-aluminium Air was comfortable to place on bare skin. Compare that to the first gen Macbook Pros, which would melt tungsten.
The niggles - no firewire, it'd be no good as a live audio machine (no audio in or optical), limited sized HD (though this will change - currently 80 GB max as it's a single platter 1.8 in drive - but high densities mean high speeds so it's not shockingly slow), and you need that USB hub.
The screams about the internal battery are irrelevant - the machine is easy enough to pull the bottom case off and the battery is easily accessible. Repair shops all around will easily be able to replace the battery - it's got a big old life anyway, but if you are one of the few that carry a laptop and 3 spare batteries then it's not for you. I carry as light a bag as possible with a laptop and the power cable. Adding the 4 cm square hub and the Vodafone USB 3G modem is no big deal.
I started off as a real sceptic (as the post above clearly shows). Two days with the thing, and two very difficult days due to Apple supplying me with a corrupt install DVD (fortunately my retail copy of Leopard worked OK, eventually) - I'm totally converted. For what I do, it is finally a replacement for the PB12" - if I was an audio performer then I'd still be waiting, but the Air is much better than the 'fashion' image it gives off. The screen for a start is MILES better than the screen in my Macbook (LED backlighting - lovely).
As soon as SSD drives come down in price, or a single-platter 1.8 HD goes above 80 GB, then I'll be upgrading it - it *is* a serviceable machine, regardless of what it looks like.
I wouldn't recommend one as your only machine. But I'm not exactly typical with my 10 Macs
- if you have a desktop Mac at home (iMac or Mac Pro) then the Air is a very worthy option as a portable computer, especially with all the dot Mac synchronisation. I am immensely impressed by it, and not just because of 'teh shinaaay'.
If Jobs had left a bit of his ego at Ive's office door and allowed another fold-down port flap on the other side with optical audio and firewire, it would be pretty much perfect for me.
Tycho said:
cyberface said:
Har har har. The irony is NOT lost on me mate 
Do I have to remind you of this post???????cyberface on another thread.... said:
Leithen said:
I'm firmly in the must resist camp too.....
Same footprint as the standard MacBook, but almost half the weight. Wearing the sensible hat, it's probably worth waiting a year for the SSD to be upped to either 96 or 128 Gb, and confirmation that the hinges are up to snuff. Having said that, Jobs and Ive know their their stuff so I doubt there will be any major structural weakness.
The horns of a dilemma - keep the 15" Powerbook chugging along, hide behind a lovely new 24"iMac, or go featherweight.....
Been thinking a bit more, and checking the specs more carefully.Same footprint as the standard MacBook, but almost half the weight. Wearing the sensible hat, it's probably worth waiting a year for the SSD to be upped to either 96 or 128 Gb, and confirmation that the hinges are up to snuff. Having said that, Jobs and Ive know their their stuff so I doubt there will be any major structural weakness.
The horns of a dilemma - keep the 15" Powerbook chugging along, hide behind a lovely new 24"iMac, or go featherweight.....
It's unusable for me. Utter dealbreaker, which is chronically disappointing since I've been waiting for a 12" PB replacement for years (as have many others...)
There are only three external ports... one video output (micro DVI to DVI or VGA), one USB and an audio out. WTF were Apple thinking?
They do offer a USB to Ethernet adaptor, which means that if you're using either wired ethernet or USB broadband modem, there are ZERO USB ports for keydrives, optical drives, or any other form of expansion.
Utter crap. The ports look shrouded as well, so I'll bet that 'fat' USB keydrives won't fit. If only it had 3 USB ports (how bloody hard is that, Apple? FFS) then I'd be very interested and be saving up...
As it is, it's a fashion accessory that really can't be used for anything. Removing all the external ports is all very well and good but *everyone* needs network connectivity, and Wifi isn't everywhere. In the daily use of my laptops I'm always either connected to the network via wired ethernet or USB Vodafone modem, it's only at home that I have Wifi and the Intel Mac laptops have had constant problems with Atheros drivers, so I tend to plug into wired ethernet at home now.
Oh well, I guess I'll have to keep waiting for the true 12" powerbook replacement. As a 'companion laptop' i.e. not one you can use as a main machine, the Asus Eee makes the Macbook Air look rather silly. It also hands Asus a golden opportunity to slam a 10 inch high resolution screen in the current Eee, up the disk size a bit and sell for twice the price, and *still* look hugely cheap...
I admit it, I was very wrong and put my mistaken belief down in print.The things that made me change my mind - firstly I've found a very nicely designed hub solution that makes the machine usable, and secondly Apple have wisely dumped the Atheros garbage for a Broadcom chipset in the Air. The wireless performance of the Air is nothing short of spectacular, compared to any of the other 5 Macs that I've used on my wireless network at home. Leithen's concern about the hinge - forget it - it feels like a solid plate of aluminium, there is NO flex at all. You can pick the entire laptop up by either of the bottom corners and there is NO flex. Try that with a 15" MBP at your peril. Even trying to bend the screen vigourously had no effect.
As to my last comment regarding the Air and the Eee - I have both. I was so far wrong with the comparison between the two that I couldn't be wronger if I tried. The Air is a stunning piece of industrial design and ergonomically superb (I didn't realise until I used it that the trackpad was basically an iPod Touch... it's big and does all the multi-touch stuff). It looks and feels more expensive than it is. The CPU runs at twice the clock rate of the Eee's, and has twice as many of them (cores). The integrated X3100 graphics aren't going to set the world on fire, but the chipset's a lot better than the GMA900 in the Eee and the GMA950 in the (older) Macbooks. And under hours of high load (me downloading a load of MacPorts source and compiling a load of hacker tools) the all-aluminium Air was comfortable to place on bare skin. Compare that to the first gen Macbook Pros, which would melt tungsten.
The niggles - no firewire, it'd be no good as a live audio machine (no audio in or optical), limited sized HD (though this will change - currently 80 GB max as it's a single platter 1.8 in drive - but high densities mean high speeds so it's not shockingly slow), and you need that USB hub.
The screams about the internal battery are irrelevant - the machine is easy enough to pull the bottom case off and the battery is easily accessible. Repair shops all around will easily be able to replace the battery - it's got a big old life anyway, but if you are one of the few that carry a laptop and 3 spare batteries then it's not for you. I carry as light a bag as possible with a laptop and the power cable. Adding the 4 cm square hub and the Vodafone USB 3G modem is no big deal.
I started off as a real sceptic (as the post above clearly shows). Two days with the thing, and two very difficult days due to Apple supplying me with a corrupt install DVD (fortunately my retail copy of Leopard worked OK, eventually) - I'm totally converted. For what I do, it is finally a replacement for the PB12" - if I was an audio performer then I'd still be waiting, but the Air is much better than the 'fashion' image it gives off. The screen for a start is MILES better than the screen in my Macbook (LED backlighting - lovely).
As soon as SSD drives come down in price, or a single-platter 1.8 HD goes above 80 GB, then I'll be upgrading it - it *is* a serviceable machine, regardless of what it looks like.
I wouldn't recommend one as your only machine. But I'm not exactly typical with my 10 Macs
- if you have a desktop Mac at home (iMac or Mac Pro) then the Air is a very worthy option as a portable computer, especially with all the dot Mac synchronisation. I am immensely impressed by it, and not just because of 'teh shinaaay'.If Jobs had left a bit of his ego at Ive's office door and allowed another fold-down port flap on the other side with optical audio and firewire, it would be pretty much perfect for me.
Yeah, got one for the other half because there just wasn't a reason to stick with Microsoft. The portability and ease of use is unbeatable. The transition has been fine and she's now using it constantly for work and play. Nice piece of kit with a lovely screen. I'd be tempted if I didn't have an MBP already,
Andy
ETA: Sorry if my post seems too short
Andy
ETA: Sorry if my post seems too short
Edited by TheStoat on Tuesday 18th March 20:20
Have you looked at the Lenovo x300 - seems a good bet, built in WWAN, 3 USB, GB ethernet, optical drive and not much bigger than the Air, 10 hours battery life too with the extended (user replacable) battery and additional 3 cell battery in the ultrabay slot.
1440 x 900 screen is awesome too for that size.
1440 x 900 screen is awesome too for that size.
Yep, the Macbook is compact enough, but the thickness and the density means it's actually nearly as heavy as a 15" Macbook Pro - and that was the problem for me. I'm quite happy gaining extra fitness by walking 3-4 miles a day with one on my shoulder but I'd prefer a lighter laptop really.
This is the the hub - small and aesthetically in line with the Air (apologies for poor photos):
It cost £10 inc vat, and has 4 ports, and is solid aluminium rather than painted plastic. USB2, unpowered but has a 5v input socket if you want to power it. Worked fine today connected to Vodafone's network with the Vodem for 10 hours, no dropped connections...
This is the the hub - small and aesthetically in line with the Air (apologies for poor photos):
It cost £10 inc vat, and has 4 ports, and is solid aluminium rather than painted plastic. USB2, unpowered but has a 5v input socket if you want to power it. Worked fine today connected to Vodafone's network with the Vodem for 10 hours, no dropped connections...
Whoaaaa...... Backtrack request my boy - hit the rewind button!
Talk us through the Air purchase thought process - are we talking "had a good week, wandered into the Apple store and found myself unaccountably leaving with a small box tucked under my arm", or was this brewing for longer amongst your overworked grey cells?
Talk us through the Air purchase thought process - are we talking "had a good week, wandered into the Apple store and found myself unaccountably leaving with a small box tucked under my arm", or was this brewing for longer amongst your overworked grey cells?
<<<The Air is a stunning piece of industrial design and ergonomically superb>>>
Bugger! I really didn't want to read that
I've been toying with getting one and keep convincing myself that £1200 is too much but having lugged my MacBook around for 2 weeks on my last touring holiday around Germany it got to be a heavy encumbrance whilst great for finding out everything about the local area and where to go next.
Compared to the 2.0 Core Duo MacBook what's the 1.6 like?
Is it noticeably slower running apps & Safari etc.?
(The hub looks brill - 'spose another £10 wouldn't break the bank)
Bugger! I really didn't want to read that
I've been toying with getting one and keep convincing myself that £1200 is too much but having lugged my MacBook around for 2 weeks on my last touring holiday around Germany it got to be a heavy encumbrance whilst great for finding out everything about the local area and where to go next.
Compared to the 2.0 Core Duo MacBook what's the 1.6 like?
Is it noticeably slower running apps & Safari etc.?
(The hub looks brill - 'spose another £10 wouldn't break the bank)
Leithen said:
Whoaaaa...... Backtrack request my boy - hit the rewind button!
Talk us through the Air purchase thought process - are we talking "had a good week, wandered into the Apple store and found myself unaccountably leaving with a small box tucked under my arm", or was this brewing for longer amongst your overworked grey cells?
Even weirder. I have a Flybook which a PHer is interested in buying, which I had at sale or return at my local computer shop. On popping into the shop to retrieve the Flybook, I was given the runaround for 5 minutes during which I had a look at some of the toys... picked up another folding SD-card-cum-USB stick (2 GB this time), and saw this tiny square ally USB hub. Since the USB ports were the problem with the Air... and I'd just got my VXT working again after a couple of months dead with a flat battery (it's not easy to change batteries in VX220s, and the weather had been awful, and it lives outdoors, and I've been very busy) - I was in a rather manic and uncharacteristically positive mood.Talk us through the Air purchase thought process - are we talking "had a good week, wandered into the Apple store and found myself unaccountably leaving with a small box tucked under my arm", or was this brewing for longer amongst your overworked grey cells?
So I raced up to the Apple store to buy an iTrip FM thingy for my iPhone, since a mate who visited the weekend before had one and it worked well. Of course, having then played with an Air, I decided to buy one...
As to the other question - performance - there's very little difference with apps that fit in the memory and don't overheat the CPUs. It's got 2 GB of RAM and the Core 2 Duo (mine's a 1.6 GHz because I wanted a larger hard drive, and I figured I'd buy the cheap one as I'm going to upgrade to a bigger HD or cheaper SSD when prices come down) and performs very similarly on my workflow to the Macbook.
However it has 2 GB to my Macbook's 4 (well only 3 available to the OS) - and once you hit swap, the thing is SLOW. Basically it's best to optimise your workflow to avoid heavy use of the swapfile because the 1.8 in 4200 rpm hard drive isn't the fastest thing on earth. However, this is cutting edge (it's the largest, fastest 5mm high 1.8 inch drive on the market) so I'm fully expecting a big performance boost when a faster drive is available.
The graphics chipset is noticeably faster than the GMA varieties used in the Macbooks I've owned (first and second gen), and the LED-backlit screen is gorgeous. It's also got the backlit keys from the Macbook Pro, which is a nice touch, and the speakers give out a good sound.
I haven't yet tried the bugbear of the old Macbooks - dual screen performance - but since the X3100 allocates 144 MB of RAM to the GPU it ought to be a damn sight better than the old Macbook, which turned Exposé into a slideshow with an external screen.
Best thing about it is that the wireless performance is better than any other Mac I've ever used. Thank f
k Apple junked Atheros and went with Broadcom... when downloading the 10.5.2 update I didn't even think of trying to use the ethernet adaptor.It's not for everyone - it has some fundamental limitations. But I love the thing.
Noger - good question - for me it's because of the weight. I carry around a small laptop bag / rucksack (made by Muji, doesn't really look like the typical City-corporate Targus-style 'I've got an expensive laptop in me' bag) which will take an A4 pad.
Of course, I often have to carry documents, most of which are A4 format.
The Macbook is more or less A4 but is a couple of cm thick and weighs a couple of kg. The Air is half the weight (or feels it!) and this makes a big difference. I still use the same bag - the Air, a few documents, a Vodem and a power cable and IMO that's light and portable.
I get the impression from your posts that you do a very different job to me and extended keyboard usage isn't really a priority for you - I need to knock out 30 page mini-project proposals on mine and anything inferior to the PB12" isn't an option.
PJLarge - IMO now, unless you do audio or on-site disc burning, the Air **is** finally a reasonable replacement for the PB12" - it's lighter, the screen is better, the keyboard IMO is better. The battery lasts longer. The lack of Firewire (and therefore target disk mode) is a big irritant, but not enough to rule it out. Don't get rid of the 12" PB though, I sold mine and will always regret it...
m12_nathan - The thinkpad looks lovely... three problems for me though. Firstly, it's fking expensive. The cheapest variant is a hell of a lot more than my Air. Secondly, I know they've tried with the trackpoint, the multiple buttons and the trackpad, but the trackpad is *tiny* - the multi-touch iPhone-sized pad on the Air has to be used to be appreciated. It makes navigation *very* fast indeed. I seriously considered trying to do a hackintosh on a 12" thinkpad but was put off by the lack of decent sized trackpad. And that brings me lastly to the third problem - I get a choice of Windows or Linux. Windows isn't what I want, I can just about throw a good Linux distro together, but I have no idea whether the Thinkpad would work with a hacked OS X...
Of course, I often have to carry documents, most of which are A4 format.
The Macbook is more or less A4 but is a couple of cm thick and weighs a couple of kg. The Air is half the weight (or feels it!) and this makes a big difference. I still use the same bag - the Air, a few documents, a Vodem and a power cable and IMO that's light and portable.
I get the impression from your posts that you do a very different job to me and extended keyboard usage isn't really a priority for you - I need to knock out 30 page mini-project proposals on mine and anything inferior to the PB12" isn't an option.
PJLarge - IMO now, unless you do audio or on-site disc burning, the Air **is** finally a reasonable replacement for the PB12" - it's lighter, the screen is better, the keyboard IMO is better. The battery lasts longer. The lack of Firewire (and therefore target disk mode) is a big irritant, but not enough to rule it out. Don't get rid of the 12" PB though, I sold mine and will always regret it...
m12_nathan - The thinkpad looks lovely... three problems for me though. Firstly, it's f
king expensive. The cheapest variant is a hell of a lot more than my Air. Secondly, I know they've tried with the trackpoint, the multiple buttons and the trackpad, but the trackpad is *tiny* - the multi-touch iPhone-sized pad on the Air has to be used to be appreciated. It makes navigation *very* fast indeed. I seriously considered trying to do a hackintosh on a 12" thinkpad but was put off by the lack of decent sized trackpad. And that brings me lastly to the third problem - I get a choice of Windows or Linux. Windows isn't what I want, I can just about throw a good Linux distro together, but I have no idea whether the Thinkpad would work with a hacked OS X...Sorry Cyberface - didn't properly read the first post so posted that absent mindedly - glad you are happy with your air.
I'm trying to negotiate getting an x300 at a decent price (aiming for 1500inc for the WWAN version) - it has a few things that Apple would do well to copy IMO even at the expense of a slight bit of thickness. User upgradable ram, removeable battery and ultrabay for media drive/extra battery, WWAN.
I love the trackpoint on my client provided T61 so the track pad isn't an issue for me though the trackpoint/trackpad think is always up for debate and personal preference. The apple multitouch stuff is great though, the double touch scroll is really useful.
I'm trying to negotiate getting an x300 at a decent price (aiming for 1500inc for the WWAN version) - it has a few things that Apple would do well to copy IMO even at the expense of a slight bit of thickness. User upgradable ram, removeable battery and ultrabay for media drive/extra battery, WWAN.
I love the trackpoint on my client provided T61 so the track pad isn't an issue for me though the trackpoint/trackpad think is always up for debate and personal preference. The apple multitouch stuff is great though, the double touch scroll is really useful.
m12_nathan said:
Sorry Cyberface - didn't properly read the first post so posted that absent mindedly - glad you are happy with your air.
I'm trying to negotiate getting an x300 at a decent price (aiming for 1500inc for the WWAN version) - it has a few things that Apple would do well to copy IMO even at the expense of a slight bit of thickness. User upgradable ram, removeable battery and ultrabay for media drive/extra battery, WWAN.
I love the trackpoint on my client provided T61 so the track pad isn't an issue for me though the trackpoint/trackpad think is always up for debate and personal preference. The apple multitouch stuff is great though, the double touch scroll is really useful.
Don't get me wrong - the X300 has me salivating, which PC laptops rarely do - and I'm not blind to the irritants of the Air. But it was £1200. If you can spring a special deal to get the X300 for £1500 - that's still £300 more, and the CPU in the thinkpad is a 1.2 GHz IIRC whereas the cheaper Air has 1.6 GHz.I'm trying to negotiate getting an x300 at a decent price (aiming for 1500inc for the WWAN version) - it has a few things that Apple would do well to copy IMO even at the expense of a slight bit of thickness. User upgradable ram, removeable battery and ultrabay for media drive/extra battery, WWAN.
I love the trackpoint on my client provided T61 so the track pad isn't an issue for me though the trackpoint/trackpad think is always up for debate and personal preference. The apple multitouch stuff is great though, the double touch scroll is really useful.
And the ergonomics are far more insidious than I ever realised - the double touch scroll is something I do *all* the time and it makes web browsing SO much easier... equally Exposé for the windows is exactly the same. I get frustrated on client XP machines when I don't have these functions - I work slower!!! Compiz on Linux does Exposé well, I'm not aware of any Windows / Linux alternative for the multi-touch trackpad though.
The Air would be utter perfection with some of the X300 features (ports, I'd also add firewire, and definitely upgradable RAM). I could live without optical drives or secondary batteries. But would the Air end up as expensive as the X300 if Apple had added these things?
The only reason the Air feels so damn solid and robust is because the entire case is solid - two halves held together by 48234 screws
If there was a removable battery, a removable hatch for RAM, etc. then it'd be so much harder to keep the thing's torsional stiffness. Thinkpads are legendarily tough so I'd love to see how 'solid' feeling the X300 is, because it looks almost impossible. They said that about the Air, but take a look at one and it's obvious how they've made it strong.good call - client is getting one in on eval before I buy one myself so I can have a play - the titanium roll cage should make it as stiff as the normal thickpad models? We'll see I guess.
CPU is slow but to be honest dual core 1.2 will be plenty for it's intended use
FYI in september the x200 will be out with a 12" widescreen and the T400 with a 14" screen.
CPU is slow but to be honest dual core 1.2 will be plenty for it's intended use
FYI in september the x200 will be out with a 12" widescreen and the T400 with a 14" screen.
cyberface said:
PJLarge - IMO now, unless you do audio or on-site disc burning, the Air **is** finally a reasonable replacement for the PB12" - it's lighter, the screen is better, the keyboard IMO is better. The battery lasts longer. The lack of Firewire (and therefore target disk mode) is a big irritant, but not enough to rule it out. Don't get rid of the 12" PB though, I sold mine and will always regret it...
Good stuff, thanks. Order placed I'll be using it at home, I already have a 15" MBP as well as the 12" PBG4 (and others, even a Mac 512), I like the trusty old Powerbook but the screen's in a different league on the Macbook Pro - I'm hoping the Air will be the same (which it should be if it's LED backlit like the MBP) In truth I'll have no use for the G4 anymore and whilst it's nice to have a spare machine, there's a fine line between spare kit and a museum collection
Firewire, target disk or CD burning support are things I have no need for with it, if I want to do any of those things I'll use the MBP. It'll be used purely for web browsing, taking on holiday and VPN / RDP / Citrix sessions back work if they have a problem that needs resolving.
Edited by PJLarge on Wednesday 19th March 21:02
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