Apple... is it going rotten..?
Discussion
Podie said:
Firstly the "Apple death grip" incident with the new iP4, and now seemingly iTunes has been hacked and people have lost money. The bit that amused me was this...
Is the Apple going rotten..?
There are about a dozen iP4's here at work, if you properly smother the unit with your hands the signal drops, not been able to get one to drop a call.article said:
Apple, which told users to ask their banks for refunds. ‘You should also change your iTunes password,’ said a spokesman.
[url]Source|http://www.metro.co.uk/news/834270-computer-hacker-bites-apple-with-another-attack-on-itunes[url]Is the Apple going rotten..?
As for the iTunes hacking, was this a result of bad software or down to users with crap passwords? The general public need to be much more aware about using english words as passwords just isn't secure.
qube_TA said:
Podie said:
Firstly the "Apple death grip" incident with the new iP4, and now seemingly iTunes has been hacked and people have lost money. The bit that amused me was this...
Is the Apple going rotten..?
There are about a dozen iP4's here at work, if you properly smother the unit with your hands the signal drops, not been able to get one to drop a call.article said:
Apple, which told users to ask their banks for refunds. ‘You should also change your iTunes password,’ said a spokesman.
[url]Source|http://www.metro.co.uk/news/834270-computer-hacker-bites-apple-with-another-attack-on-itunes[url]Is the Apple going rotten..?
As for the iTunes hacking, was this a result of bad software or down to users with crap passwords? The general public need to be much more aware about using english words as passwords just isn't secure.
As for the passwords thing... when was the last time you knew of a user that had a strong password? Jeez, I’ve audited places where people have Post-Its with “password1” written on them stuck to their monitors...
Being an open free-for-all platform probably isn't that desirable to the none-tech savvy.
Guy at work here had a Linux phone, he was uploading some pictures to it and it complained that the filesystem was read-only. He had to SSH into his phone, unmount the partition, FSCK it to fix the problems and remount it. He thought that was ace 'You'd not dream of being able to do that on a phone a few years ago'. I'd wager that most users would be horrified at the thought of worrying about file system attributes and partitions on their phones!
In addition there was that App on the Google phone, it was on the Google store that if you installed would allow you to check the balance of all your bank accounts whilst on the move, nice looking little app, the only problem was that every time you used it, it sent your bank details to the author of the software! Can't see something like that happening under Apple.
Also, despite Adobe's constant moaning, they've not been able to develop a working version of Flash for a portable device despite years of trying, yes Apple have now told them to sod off but it's not like the iPhone is the only handset without it, no phone has it working in the way you'd want it.
Guy at work here had a Linux phone, he was uploading some pictures to it and it complained that the filesystem was read-only. He had to SSH into his phone, unmount the partition, FSCK it to fix the problems and remount it. He thought that was ace 'You'd not dream of being able to do that on a phone a few years ago'. I'd wager that most users would be horrified at the thought of worrying about file system attributes and partitions on their phones!
In addition there was that App on the Google phone, it was on the Google store that if you installed would allow you to check the balance of all your bank accounts whilst on the move, nice looking little app, the only problem was that every time you used it, it sent your bank details to the author of the software! Can't see something like that happening under Apple.
Also, despite Adobe's constant moaning, they've not been able to develop a working version of Flash for a portable device despite years of trying, yes Apple have now told them to sod off but it's not like the iPhone is the only handset without it, no phone has it working in the way you'd want it.
qube_TA said:
Being an open free-for-all platform probably isn't that desirable to the none-tech savvy.
Guy at work here had a Linux phone, he was uploading some pictures to it and it complained that the filesystem was read-only. He had to SSH into his phone, unmount the partition, FSCK it to fix the problems and remount it. He thought that was ace 'You'd not dream of being able to do that on a phone a few years ago'. I'd wager that most users would be horrified at the thought of worrying about file system attributes and partitions on their phones!
They could always pretend it's a Microsoft/Apple phone and that there's just no way of doing it if that's less horrific!Guy at work here had a Linux phone, he was uploading some pictures to it and it complained that the filesystem was read-only. He had to SSH into his phone, unmount the partition, FSCK it to fix the problems and remount it. He thought that was ace 'You'd not dream of being able to do that on a phone a few years ago'. I'd wager that most users would be horrified at the thought of worrying about file system attributes and partitions on their phones!
Podie said:
Quite a few iP4s here too. One was DOA, and two others genuinely do suffer from the Apple death grip. Another two, do not
Things like the antenna "issue" and the upgrade problems don't need to happen too often for hard-won reputation to be lost.I'm still not sure how an organisation like Apple could ever let a problem like the antenna issue (if that is what is being experienced) even come into existence. It's inconceivable that it would not be noted as a problem at the ideas stage, let alone once they had started thinking about how it would work and look.
Podie said:
As for the passwords thing... when was the last time you knew of a user that had a strong password? Jeez, I’ve audited places where people have Post-Its with “password1” written on them stuck to their monitors...
Completely agree, but at what point does a company draw the line and put the onus of protection on the user of the system / service? In the case of the iTunes hack, it seems to be a combination of socially engineered account login details and dodgy account collecting software. So its far from simple. The security model of iTunes and the iPhone doesnt allow direct access to account details, so the chances of an app on the app store that can harvest your details is small - though not impossible - and you would have to be pretty daft to download any-old-crap. What is more likely is that there is a combination of social engineering and virus / trojan / malware that has captured some relevant login details. These have been then used to create bogus sales (process not quite known at the moment) and hence generate revenue and ranking for the developer - clever manipulation of the process, but to be expected. I could be wrong of course, but we will know more soon I am sure.But at the end of the day, where does the line between the provider and the user end? Who needs to carry the can for this? Apple for letting it happen? Partly yes, but the users who gave out usernames and passwords are equally to blame. And also for not watching what they are doing and making sure they dont open dodgy emails etc. Its common sense and the users will get their money back...
Users need to know that a good strong password is essential.
Figure I probably ought to change my PH password from "password" to something more secure. Its been like that from the start.
But anyway.
Problem with passwords is that the average non techie user has so many passwords to remember. And we're told they have to be strong, and we have to change them regularly, and so forth.
But we live in a country where people struggle to remember who was Prime Minister during WW2. Any of them. So getting people to remember 10+ passwords and passcodes is near on impossible for the average user.
So is it any wonder people write them down? No not really. I can't remember some of the pin's for my credit cards, because I rarely if ever use that function, but if I ever got taken to a cash point at gun point - i'll be the one with my innards over the machine. So unless you use those 10 passwords regularly, you are stuffed.
Security people never seem to understand that though.
But anyway.
Problem with passwords is that the average non techie user has so many passwords to remember. And we're told they have to be strong, and we have to change them regularly, and so forth.
But we live in a country where people struggle to remember who was Prime Minister during WW2. Any of them. So getting people to remember 10+ passwords and passcodes is near on impossible for the average user.
So is it any wonder people write them down? No not really. I can't remember some of the pin's for my credit cards, because I rarely if ever use that function, but if I ever got taken to a cash point at gun point - i'll be the one with my innards over the machine. So unless you use those 10 passwords regularly, you are stuffed.
Security people never seem to understand that though.
plasticpig said:
..... I can't develop a custom application for one of my clients on the Ipad because I would have to release it through the appstore and have it approved by Apple. Even though it will only ever be used on 20-30 devices and is specific to the client. I do not have this problem if I use a tablet PC running Windows or Linux.
This is not an theoretical situation by the way; it is a current project. The client really wanted to use Ipads. They will probably be using windows tablets instead.
Really?This is not an theoretical situation by the way; it is a current project. The client really wanted to use Ipads. They will probably be using windows tablets instead.
http://developer.apple.com/programs/iphone/distrib...
<snip>
Ad Hoc Distribution
Share your application with up to 100 other iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch users with Ad Hoc distribution. Share your application through email, or by posting it to a web site or server.
</snip>
More detail:
http://www.innerfence.com/howto/install-iphone-app...
tinman0 said:
Figure I probably ought to change my PH password from "password" to something more secure. Its been like that from the start.
But anyway.
Problem with passwords is that the average non techie user has so many passwords to remember. And we're told they have to be strong, and we have to change them regularly, and so forth.
So is it any wonder people write them down? No not really. I can't remember some of the pin's for my credit cards, because I rarely if ever use that function, but if I ever got taken to a cash point at gun point - i'll be the one with my innards over the machine. So unless you use those 10 passwords regularly, you are stuffed.
Security people never seem to understand that though.
I agree strong passwords are great but if you rarely use them you forget them and end up using the much less secure forgotten password, or better yet ringing someone for the account to be reset. But anyway.
Problem with passwords is that the average non techie user has so many passwords to remember. And we're told they have to be strong, and we have to change them regularly, and so forth.
So is it any wonder people write them down? No not really. I can't remember some of the pin's for my credit cards, because I rarely if ever use that function, but if I ever got taken to a cash point at gun point - i'll be the one with my innards over the machine. So unless you use those 10 passwords regularly, you are stuffed.
Security people never seem to understand that though.
Best for that was a Credit card sign up, you had to come up with a username and password for the online management when you applied, but it would reject any username that was taken or password that wasn't secure enough so suffice to say that when it did accept the combination I had no idea what the combination was.
tinman0 said:
So is it any wonder people write them down? No not really. I can't remember some of the pin's for my credit cards, because I rarely if ever use that function, but if I ever got taken to a cash point at gun point - i'll be the one with my innards over the machine. So unless you use those 10 passwords regularly, you are stuffed.
Security people never seem to understand that though.
Our security people are quite happy for us to write down our passwords - which are all generated for us so you haven't got a hope in hell of remembering them. You're just required to store them using the same procedures as for a document of the same classification as the data that the password allows access to. Which usually just means keeping the post it notes in the same safe as the hard disks go into at the end of the working day.Security people never seem to understand that though.
Password discipline is very, very easy. You use the same password for everything.
You ensure it contains one number at least. You change that number every month, for everything.
Just in case you forget your number....You have a number on your phone...You change the end number along with the others.
Its all about using you head. It works, I assure you.
As for Apple, others can use them, I never will. They use a business model from the computing 70's and 80's...it was s
t then , its still a rip off now.
You ensure it contains one number at least. You change that number every month, for everything.
Just in case you forget your number....You have a number on your phone...You change the end number along with the others.
Its all about using you head. It works, I assure you.
As for Apple, others can use them, I never will. They use a business model from the computing 70's and 80's...it was s
t then , its still a rip off now. TuxRacer said:
I wouldn't use the same password for sites with different levels of importance. If Pistonheads gets hacked I don't want them getting into my email and then internet banking.
What he said. Same passwords all over the place is asking for trouble if that 1 password gets captured.I'm fairly sure some T&Cs on websites say if you don't use a unique password they will not be responsible for what happens if your account is attacked. Not good if someone hacks your PH account and then empties your bank account (unlikely etc I agree. But you get the idea).
Tonsko said:
gamefreaks said:
Unfortunatly, Windows Mobile 7 will be the same as the iPhone. Only signed apps from the Windows Marketplace can be loaded.
Beign realistic about it, how long will that last? It didn't take long for IOS to be unlocked, and that was on proprietary hardware, proprietary OS, with some half-decent concessions to security. Windows has historically been fairly easy to crack.I imagine it will be the same.
I don't want to be in the middle of an arms race. I want to put whatever software I want on MY device.
All the comments above are why i take so much issue with apple. They have been running around for years bleating about microsoft being anticompetitive and lobbying the us gov and any other who would listen to investigate microsoft.
Yet apple are as far as i am concerned just as bad if not worse.
As a company i admire what they have achieved and how they operate to a degree but am not overly thrilled with their double standards.
Yet apple are as far as i am concerned just as bad if not worse.
As a company i admire what they have achieved and how they operate to a degree but am not overly thrilled with their double standards.
tinman0 said:
off_again said:
Users need to know that a good strong password is essential.
I find the sanctimony about passwords to be nauseating at best.People should have strong passwords, and I agree. Let me just change my PH one, back in one moment.
plasticpig said:
Original Poster said:
plasticpig said:
rsv gone! said:
Despite their (considerable) hype, they are no different to Microsoft.
In fact, their hardware is more restrictive. You can't play the formats you want (You need to tediously convert movie files). itunes is a clunky piece of software but I have to tolerate it because I like my ipod and at the time of buying my car stereo (2005) it was the only player supported by the likes of Alpine. And it's lack of bluetooth is annoying - do iphones have bluetooth now?
I don't know! They seem to have a fair contempt for their end users.
And how did Steve Jobs attain his near angelical status?
They are worse than Microsoft. Microsoft do not force developers to use their development tools. Apple do this for the Iphone and Ipad. Microsoft do not attempt to control the distribution of applications for their platforms. Apple do for the Iphone and Ipad.In fact, their hardware is more restrictive. You can't play the formats you want (You need to tediously convert movie files). itunes is a clunky piece of software but I have to tolerate it because I like my ipod and at the time of buying my car stereo (2005) it was the only player supported by the likes of Alpine. And it's lack of bluetooth is annoying - do iphones have bluetooth now?
I don't know! They seem to have a fair contempt for their end users.
And how did Steve Jobs attain his near angelical status?
Edited by rsv gone! on Wednesday 7th July 09:14
This is not an theoretical situation by the way; it is a current project. The client really wanted to use Ipads. They will probably be using windows tablets instead.
So months ago the iPad never existed, pretty much panned as an idea anyway as all other attempts had be pretty lame and had never really taken off. Apple releases it's product successfully (not without it's detractors who could never see it working I might add) and once again pretty much defines the market, creates a huge demand for it's devices and the content. It's gets released with a well defined 'ecosystem' and IMO, along with the iPhone, has created more opportunities for developers to make money and has introduced more competition to the market.
I really don't get the antagonism towards Apple, to me they have brought far more to the technology arena than any other company and made it work.
And controlling content is not new, it's been done on many devices, Sony controls every game ever released on it's Playstations, MS and Nintendo does the same with it's games - is there any difference?
Where I think Apple is going off the boil a bit is with their computers (and maybe the quality of them) OS X and other apps are certainly losing the shine they once had over Windows, it's almost like they are now secondary to their iPhone and iPad lines.
Edited by thehawk on Thursday 8th July 03:54
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