Apple... is it going rotten..?

[t84]

Tonsko said:

Cheese Mechanic said:

Password discipline is very, very easy. You use the same password for everything.

You ensure it contains one number at least. You change that number every month, for everything.

Just in case you forget your number....You have a number on your phone...You change the end number along with the others.

Its all about using you head. It works, I assure you.

As for Apple, others can use them, I never will. They use a business model from the computing 70's and 80's...it was st then , its still a rip off now.

That's a rubbish system!

Edited by Tonsko on Thursday 8th July 12:11

Agree, that's fking awful!

[Podie]

off_again said:

Podie said:

Tallbut Buxomly said:

Oakey said:

My biggest issue with Apple is their pricing, I just can't see the justification in price differences between 16, 32 and 64Gb models. nearly £200 more for a 64Gb iPad over 16Gb iPad? Really?

I think it stems from the fact that a lot of their stuff is in house built and designed unlike most other mainstream companies so costs more to develope. they recoup that cost by charging more by memory.

Shame they refuse to use MicroSD cards or similar.

People with brains could buy a Sandisk one, the sheep could buy an Apple branded one...

Part of the reasoning is to keep control of the memory in the first place. Removing the ability to directly insert applications / media / tools via a memory card further enforces the use of iTunes and the sync process. I have a number of Apple products, but it does get to be a bit of a joke with all of this sync, backup and iTunes malarky. Sniffs of unnecessary control.

But, take a look at what is possible with Symbian and Windows Mobile for a start - both platforms can be uniformly hacked, abused and totalled using memory cards and Apple wouldnt want to risk that. Its not a security thing, its a usability and consistency thing. This way Apple can ensure that the same model for management, media, files and applications is maintained and that everything operates consistently.

Oh, and they don't like holes in the case!

Understood, which is why I said it's a shame they refuse...

[Tallbut Buxomly]

Podie said:

Tallbut Buxomly said:

Oakey said:

My biggest issue with Apple is their pricing, I just can't see the justification in price differences between 16, 32 and 64Gb models. nearly £200 more for a 64Gb iPad over 16Gb iPad? Really?

I think it stems from the fact that a lot of their stuff is in house built and designed unlike most other mainstream companies so costs more to develope. they recoup that cost by charging more by memory.

Shame they refuse to use MicroSD cards or similar.

People with brains could buy a Sandisk one, the sheep could buy an Apple branded one...

Which is why i am getting the new nokia N8. Although not as impressed with my n97 as i was hoping to be the fact the n8 can take usb sticks is a major plus point. Put what you want on mem stick plug into phone hit copy and you're done. Out and about and want to look at something on someones memory stick. Plug into your phone and you are away.

Apples locking people out makes sense in the way that it helps keep the "it just works" philosophy alive as most people mess with the software on their machines and then claim its the phone/mp3 player at fault giving the manufacturer a bad rep.

[Munter]

Thinking about it Apple and this guy have similar attitudes:



This is the product. If you don't like it's features. fk off.

You play by our rules once you buy the product and that's it. We'll happily sell you extras. But they will be in OUR control. You just sit there, shut up and pay up.

NEXT CUSTOMER
What the fk do you want?

[qube_TA]

TonyToniTone said:

qube_TA said:

Also, despite Adobe's constant moaning, they've not been able to develop a working version of Flash for a portable device despite years of trying

Thought it was running on the latest android.

It's there, but to say that it's running is a bit of a stretch, limping maybe.

[paddyhasneeds]

I use a Mac at home and I do like it. A lot. I know I've paid more to surf the web that I would with a PC but I look after several hundred of the fkers at work and it's a change, not something I can justify I'll be the first to admit.

I also have an iPod Touch. Other than the Flash thing, I'm not aware of too much that comes close to it for full web/email connectivity for £150.

Where I'm not such a fan of Apple is the iPhone and the iPad. The iPad is just a personal thing, I admit I've not seen/used one in the flesh, I just can't get my head around the pricing. Ditto the iPhone, mostly because owning a £150 iPod Touch I'm not sure where the additional £400 comes from given Nokia can sell a phone on PAYG for a tenner.

I've never understood the whole Mac vs. PC thing, just use whatever you like that does the job the way you want it.

[Cheese Mechanic]

Munter said:

Thinking about it Apple and this guy have similar attitudes:



This is the product. If you don't like it's features. fk off.

You play by our rules once you buy the product and that's it. We'll happily sell you extras. But they will be in OUR control. You just sit there, shut up and pay up.

NEXT CUSTOMER
What the fk do you want?

Yes, but he is cheap, Apple is the reverse.

[tinman0]

Munter said:

Thinking about it Apple and this guy have similar attitudes:

This is the product. If you don't like it's features. fk off.

You play by our rules once you buy the product and that's it. We'll happily sell you extras. But they will be in OUR control. You just sit there, shut up and pay up.

Isn't that the same with any company? Buy the product or don't? No company is going to customise every sale absolutely perfect so take it or leave it.

As for playing by the rules - every software company is the same. Buy into Sage, and you buy into their way of doing things for instance. Buy an IBM Bladecenter and you buy into their way of doing things. And so forth.

[TuxRacer]

tinman0 said:

As for playing by the rules - every software company is the same. Buy into Sage, and you buy into their way of doing things for instance. Buy an IBM Bladecenter and you buy into their way of doing things. And so forth.

Long live open source!

[plasticpig]

tinman0 said:

Munter said:

Thinking about it Apple and this guy have similar attitudes:

This is the product. If you don't like it's features. fk off.

You play by our rules once you buy the product and that's it. We'll happily sell you extras. But they will be in OUR control. You just sit there, shut up and pay up.

Isn't that the same with any company? Buy the product or don't? No company is going to customise every sale absolutely perfect so take it or leave it.

As for playing by the rules - every software company is the same. Buy into Sage, and you buy into their way of doing things for instance. Buy an IBM Bladecenter and you buy into their way of doing things. And so forth.

Speaking as someone who runs a software company. If the customer is willing to pay we will change our software to how they want it.

[tinman0]

plasticpig said:

tinman0 said:

Munter said:

Thinking about it Apple and this guy have similar attitudes:

This is the product. If you don't like it's features. fk off.

You play by our rules once you buy the product and that's it. We'll happily sell you extras. But they will be in OUR control. You just sit there, shut up and pay up.

Isn't that the same with any company? Buy the product or don't? No company is going to customise every sale absolutely perfect so take it or leave it.

As for playing by the rules - every software company is the same. Buy into Sage, and you buy into their way of doing things for instance. Buy an IBM Bladecenter and you buy into their way of doing things. And so forth.

Speaking as someone who runs a software company. If the customer is willing to pay we will change our software to how they want it.

And how many changes are you going to make for $100? (Which includes the price of the application/software).

When you are dealing with millions of customers, all paying peanuts, you're not going to customise every install are you?

[PJ S]

MiniMan64 said:

I don't know about hacked but along with IOS4, downloading something from I-Tunes last night has rendered by I-Pod useless.

And I'm not entirely sure how to go about fixing it either.

Well what did you download?
Did you download within the AppStore app, or iTunes Store on the computer?
Have you tried a reset - System Preferences on the iPod?
Even just shutting it off, and restarting it again?

[PJ S]

Trommel said:

Podie said:

Quite a few iP4s here too. One was DOA, and two others genuinely do suffer from the Apple death grip. Another two, do not

Things like the antenna "issue" and the upgrade problems don't need to happen too often for hard-won reputation to be lost.

I'm still not sure how an organisation like Apple could ever let a problem like the antenna issue (if that is what is being experienced) even come into existence. It's inconceivable that it would not be noted as a problem at the ideas stage, let alone once they had started thinking about how it would work and look.

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

[Tycho]

PJ S said:

Trommel said:

Podie said:

Quite a few iP4s here too. One was DOA, and two others genuinely do suffer from the Apple death grip. Another two, do not

Things like the antenna "issue" and the upgrade problems don't need to happen too often for hard-won reputation to be lost.

I'm still not sure how an organisation like Apple could ever let a problem like the antenna issue (if that is what is being experienced) even come into existence. It's inconceivable that it would not be noted as a problem at the ideas stage, let alone once they had started thinking about how it would work and look.

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

Surely the fact that as soon as you bridge the gap on the case and the signal drops off without moving the phone means it is a hardware fault. Maybe they will revise the formula to show less signal strength initially so you can't see it going down when you hold it wrong?

[Tonsko]

PJ S said:

Trommel said:

Podie said:

Quite a few iP4s here too. One was DOA, and two others genuinely do suffer from the Apple death grip. Another two, do not

Things like the antenna "issue" and the upgrade problems don't need to happen too often for hard-won reputation to be lost.

I'm still not sure how an organisation like Apple could ever let a problem like the antenna issue (if that is what is being experienced) even come into existence. It's inconceivable that it would not be noted as a problem at the ideas stage, let alone once they had started thinking about how it would work and look.

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

That's part of the problem - it's what made everyone notice it. Personally, I suspect they deliberately changed the algorithm to make it look like there were more bars, you know, so they could show that 'it had good signal strength'. This has bitten them.

The other (and probably main) issue is that there is a design problem - yes attentuation happens in all phones when you hold them, but in this particular design, that problem is exacerbated. From a layman's point of view (i.e. me), it appears that the hand causes the length of the antenna to change; the antenna has been designed specifically to recive a certain wavelength, a decision that amongst other things, requires the antenna to be a certain length. When that length changes, it gets less efficient at recieving signal, so calls are dropped. At least that's how I understand it.

P.s. I'm not bashing them, I have one and think it's mint. What bugs me more is the oversensitivity of the 'head-proximity' sensor that enables you to accidentally put speakerphone on etc.

Edited by Tonsko on Friday 9th July 09:11

[Trommel]

PJ S said:

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

Not buying that I'm afraid.

[Munter]

Trommel said:

PJ S said:

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

Not buying that I'm afraid.

Me either. If it was just a software problem with calculating how many bars to show the antenna would still function. It'd just be the display that was wrong. I'm assuming people noticed the problem when their calls cut off, rather than when looking at the screen with their ear somehow.

[Ordinary_Chap]

Munter said:

Trommel said:

PJ S said:

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

Not buying that I'm afraid.

Me either. If it was just a software problem with calculating how many bars to show the antenna would still function. It'd just be the display that was wrong. I'm assuming people noticed the problem when their calls cut off, rather than when looking at the screen with their ear somehow.

I think the signal strength software stuff is complete rubbish.

Why would the phone drop calls and data if that was so? Surely the call/data stream continues until the phone can no longer hold the connection open?

On top of that they've said that they've used the same algorithm all along for all of the Iphones, so if that is so then why does the Iphone 4 get affected far worse than the other models?

And the other models incidentally have always been rubbish. I have a Blackberry 9700 which is my main number and where all of my email and everything else comes into but I often carry around a 3GS for media/games/ipod functionality and at best it's significantly worse at maintaining it's signal/data than the 9700. Very often the Iphone just doesn't work and the 9700 sits there doing everything just fine.

So they've taken the worst part of the Iphone model range (well except the battery/camera) and made it significantly worse, well done Apple.

[Trommel]

Ordinary_Chap said:

So they've taken the worst part of the Iphone model range (well except the battery/camera) and made it significantly worse, well done Apple

Assuming you're iHolding it, the reception is supposedly very good.

[PJ S]

Munter said:

Trommel said:

PJ S said:

It's not an antenna issue - it's a software issue, whereby they used an incorrect formula to calculate the signal strength, apparently.
Now using the AT&T provided formula, the signal bars should more accurately reflect the signal strength.

Not buying that I'm afraid.

Me either. If it was just a software problem with calculating how many bars to show the antenna would still function. It'd just be the display that was wrong. I'm assuming people noticed the problem when their calls cut off, rather than when looking at the screen with their ear somehow.

I'm suspicious of the announcement myself, and I am a reasonable Apple fan, but their explanation was that those thinking they had 3 bars for example, were maybe only on 1 bar in actuality, so as a consequence of covering the area, caused the phone to lose signal strength.
They say it's endemic of all cell phones - covering the antenna area will cause a reduction of signal strength.
So, on that basis, it is only a software issue.

It'd be interesting to see a comparative test showing results from measured signal sensitivity, where the iPhones of all generations stack up against the rest of the industry.