Huge mistake Nokia

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Discussion

theboyfold

10,910 posts

225 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
TonyHetherington said:
theboyfold said:
I think it's quite an interesting move. Allow Nokia to focus on the hardware and Windows, will in time get a lot better I think. I've read lots of good things about it.
How long do we give them though? Windows mobile has been around for many, many years.
Yes, Windows mobile has been, but with the new version it's almost a brand new OS. That why I think it should be judged as a V1 of an OS.

The thing they need to do though is work out which market they want to attack (Business vs Blackberry) or the iPhone. Rather than trying to be everything to everyone as they are with the desktop OS. The landscape is different with the mobile world.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
TonyHetherington said:
theboyfold said:
I think it's quite an interesting move. Allow Nokia to focus on the hardware and Windows, will in time get a lot better I think. I've read lots of good things about it.
How long do we give them though? Windows mobile has been around for many, many years.
Its been around a similar length of time to Symbian.

Both MS and Nokia do have some truly excellent designers. If they're given some freedom they could come up with some truly amazing products.

But no doubt anything amazing will be dropped in typical MS fashion for something relatively "safe".

Mr Will

13,719 posts

205 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
TonyHetherington said:
How long do we give them though? Windows mobile has been around for many, many years.
WinMo 7 is a complete ground up re-write though, so shouldn't really been seen as related to the previous versions in anything but name.

prand

5,910 posts

195 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Personally I think this is the best move for Nokia. Symbian seems dead and buried given the competition, and Nokia needes to do something radical, I'm not sure what's stopping them from trying Android either. The new Windows OS seems pretty good, so if Nokia can get some killer hardware for it to run on, then there is still some vestige of brand loyalty out there to bring them back from the brink. Strangely enough I want Nokia to succeed, possibly because they are European.


Edited by prand on Friday 11th February 11:33

Mr Will

13,719 posts

205 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
clonmult said:
All Nokia needed to do was focus their efforts on getting the UI enhanced on Symbian.
Symbian had become a dead end, regardless of the time and effort Nokia put into it. Nobody was writing apps for it anymore and in the modern smartphone world, Apps are king. Meego (if it ever launches) will face exactly the same problem. The best OS in the world is no use if there isn't any software that runs on it.

skoff

1,387 posts

233 months

Friday 11th February 2011
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Davi said:
I have an iPhone. the second I'm out of contract I will dance a jig on it with a maniacal expression on my face, absolute piece of crap.
Why do you dislike iOS? Or do you mean you don't like the hardware? Interested to hear your views.

I'm no fan of Apple, far from it. I am one of the few that prefers the clunky Windows mobile (and I'm talking about 6.1 here), but that's because I'm in IT and I like to fiddle with things.

When it came to deploying a manager level smart phone in our organisation, I picked iPhone because it's just far easier to use for the non-tech person. Ok, it's limited for tweaking and customisation, but it's easy and it just works (MS Exchange integration is far easier on iPhone than Win Mob - go figure!). Well, at least it works more of the time than other more 'tweakable' smart phone operating systems. It was a difficult decision as it meant me moving to iPhone away from my beloved HTC, but the user tests we ran really were that convincing.

iOS is very good at what it does, it's not perfect, but it is right up there with the competition. I also think the Apple hardware is pretty good (though we are 3GS, not 4, so can't comment on that). Again it's not perfect, but it's good enough.

Back on topic, I think this is a bad move for Nokia, but I think it will ultimately result in them doing what they are good at, which is the non-smart phone market. My personal phone is a Nokia 6021. As basic as it gets, but the battery lasts forever, it's great at getting a signal where 'Smart' phones fail, and it's small. Does the job as a mobile phone well, but doesn't try to do anything else.

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Windows Phone 7 is a really good OS, it's better than iOS by miles, but it lacks the breadth and quality of Apps, so it's got a lot to make up. It's not helped that the early January update has been delayed to February, then to March, but apps are it's main draw back at the moment. I've got a HTC Mozart running WP7, which is ace, but if it wasn't for my iPad giving me access to all the iOS Apps, it would have been a difficult choice to make.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
theboyfold said:
Yes, Windows mobile has been, but with the new version it's almost a brand new OS. That why I think it should be judged as a V1 of an OS.

The thing they need to do though is work out which market they want to attack (Business vs Blackberry) or the iPhone. Rather than trying to be everything to everyone as they are with the desktop OS. The landscape is different with the mobile world.
The OS itself isn't even slightly new. Its still running a CE core, just mildly updated.

You're confusing the UI and the OS - two different elements. And even the UI on WP7 is an evolution of what they've done on Zune and Media Center.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Mr Will said:
Symbian had become a dead end, regardless of the time and effort Nokia put into it. Nobody was writing apps for it anymore and in the modern smartphone world, Apps are king. Meego (if it ever launches) will face exactly the same problem. The best OS in the world is no use if there isn't any software that runs on it.
Thats totally untrue, and you know it.

There are plenty of apps, and plenty of developers working on Symbian. Probably more than have been working on WP7.

prand

5,910 posts

195 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
skoff said:
Back on topic, I think this is a bad move for Nokia, but I think it will ultimately result in them doing what they are good at, which is the non-smart phone market. My personal phone is a Nokia 6021...
No way - if you aren't in the smartphone market, you will disappear as a business, full stop.
However much you love your old 6021 - (the purist techie phone of choice is the 6310), the simple phone & SMS only market will be tiny compared to the mobile "mini pc in my pocket with always-on broadband" which is going to be taking up more and more of the handset market.


Edited by prand on Friday 11th February 11:45

Balmoral Green

40,660 posts

247 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
So where does this leave the just launched Nokia E7? I quite fancied getting one of them. A brand new phone with a newly ditched OS?

Mr Will

13,719 posts

205 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
clonmult said:
Thats totally untrue, and you know it.

There are plenty of apps, and plenty of developers working on Symbian. Probably more than have been working on WP7.
According to CNN, WP7 launched less than 6 months ago and already has more apps than Symbian.

theboyfold

10,910 posts

225 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Mr Will said:
clonmult said:
Thats totally untrue, and you know it.

There are plenty of apps, and plenty of developers working on Symbian. Probably more than have been working on WP7.
According to CNN, WP7 launched less than 6 months ago and already has more apps than Symbian.
There was also an interesting review on Ars or engadget about the plans for app development in the mobile OS space, I think WM7 was either top or 2nd after iOS.

I'll try and dig it out...

Ray Singh

3,045 posts

229 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
This is what Vanjoki said about Nokia using an already available SW platform a few years back (in this case it was android). Same applies now doesn't it?

http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia-android-pee-i...

The FT reports he, "likens mobile phone makers that adopt Google’s software to Finnish boys who “pee in their pants” for warmth in the winter. Temporary relief is followed by an even worse predicament."


Elop must have taken a 'bung' for this.

Zaxxon

4,057 posts

159 months

Friday 11th February 2011
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All your base are belong to us....

james_tigerwoods

16,287 posts

196 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
I think that hardware is key here - the reason I didn't go with a Windows 7 phone was the screen just wasn't as sharp as the iPhone.

Once that's fixed, I think that a Nokia/W7 phone should become a real contender smile

fido

16,752 posts

254 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Even the Mash have covered this ..

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/micros...


P.S. does anyone want to make me an offer for a nice N97?

CzechItOut

2,154 posts

190 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Ray Singh said:
This is what Vanjoki said about Nokia using an already available SW platform a few years back (in this case it was android). Same applies now doesn't it?

http://www.businessinsider.com/nokia-android-pee-i...

The FT reports he, "likens mobile phone makers that adopt Google’s software to Finnish boys who “pee in their pants” for warmth in the winter. Temporary relief is followed by an even worse predicament."


Elop must have taken a 'bung' for this.
Why? Dell don't write their own operating system, or HP, Tosiba, Levono etc. Why should Nokia write a phone OS when they are primarily a hardware company (they are still the largest manufacturer of phone, aren't they?) - and of course they are light years behind iOS and Android.

skoff

1,387 posts

233 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
prand said:
No way - if you aren't in the smartphone market, you will disappear as a business, full stop.
However much you love your old 6021 - (the purist techie phone of choice is the 6310), the simple phone & SMS only market will be tiny compared to the mobile "mini pc in my pocket with always-on broadband" which is going to be taking up more and more of the handset market.


Edited by prand on Friday 11th February 11:45
Ultimately I think you may be right, but don't ignore the emerging 3rd world markets where the mobile phone bit of a phone is still the most important bit. This is how all the mobile recycling companies are making their money. I think we have a good few years to go yet before the mobile PC in your phone is king, so I think there is still a big market for producing simple, reliable mobile comms with few bells and whistles.

It's true that Smart phones sales went up by 96% in 2010 (according to Digital Trends), but that still only accounts for 20% of total sales. Even if the remaining 80% drops to 50% in the next 5 years, that's still plenty to sustain a company like Nokia (who currently corner about 40% of the total market share).

As to the 6310 - yes a true masterpiece and benchmark in technology (see the prices they still command today!). If only they made one that was a bit smaller.

theboyfold

10,910 posts

225 months

Friday 11th February 2011
quotequote all
Disproves my point from earlier, but still quite interesting

http://www.appcelerator.com/company/survey-results...