Huge mistake Nokia

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Discussion

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

215 months

Monday 10th September 2012
quotequote all
fido said:
eharding said:
So, they've killed off any residual demand for their existing high-end phones, but haven't told anyone when they can actually get hold of the new product.
TBH, after announcing that the WP7 models were not upgradable to WP8 would have killed off most of the demand anyway. It's a shoddy way to treat existing customers.
Welcome to nokia. They have a long long way to go to getting launches and customer service right.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Monday 10th September 2012
quotequote all
TallbutBuxomly said:
clonmult said:
TallbutBuxomly said:
Well I popped into my local carphone wehouse and was told there was a 6-8 week order list on the 920.

Hearing a lot of people very excited about the 920 if honest.
They're interesting devices, but not sufficiently interesting to convince me to downgrade from the current 808.
TBH it does get me a little annoyed. I am looking at getting a new phone to take with to Aus at xmas as I am due an upgrade.

Annoyingly no one is offering the 808 on contract as its symbian and extremely expensive so well done for being narrow minded. I cannot see how it would cost them money to offer it on certain contracts with none of the networks crap on them.

This then leaves me I think with the option of the 920 as it has a fairly impressive looking camera in theory.
In theory, yes. In practice its got nowhere near the all round ability of the 808. Yes, it appears to have decent low light ability, but the lack of a decent flash is a huge oversight. It doesn't have anything like the video/audio capability of the 808 (ie. zoom, stereo rich recording, although apparently its got a mono variant), and its relatively lacking in storage.

I'm happily jumping out of contract as soon as possible - the SIM only/monthly rolling tariffs are way better vfm than virtually all phone included deals, and I can now get half price Vodafone deals (new employer, kinda handy).

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

215 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
quotequote all
clonmult said:
TallbutBuxomly said:
clonmult said:
TallbutBuxomly said:
Well I popped into my local carphone wehouse and was told there was a 6-8 week order list on the 920.

Hearing a lot of people very excited about the 920 if honest.
They're interesting devices, but not sufficiently interesting to convince me to downgrade from the current 808.
TBH it does get me a little annoyed. I am looking at getting a new phone to take with to Aus at xmas as I am due an upgrade.

Annoyingly no one is offering the 808 on contract as its symbian and extremely expensive so well done for being narrow minded. I cannot see how it would cost them money to offer it on certain contracts with none of the networks crap on them.

This then leaves me I think with the option of the 920 as it has a fairly impressive looking camera in theory.
In theory, yes. In practice its got nowhere near the all round ability of the 808. Yes, it appears to have decent low light ability, but the lack of a decent flash is a huge oversight. It doesn't have anything like the video/audio capability of the 808 (ie. zoom, stereo rich recording, although apparently its got a mono variant), and its relatively lacking in storage.

I'm happily jumping out of contract as soon as possible - the SIM only/monthly rolling tariffs are way better vfm than virtually all phone included deals, and I can now get half price Vodafone deals (new employer, kinda handy).
Sadly I have just spent a couple of grand on a plane ticket am about to spend another 500-700 on fixing my workhorse and have a 3/4month old phone which is perfect except for the camera. Therefore a free phone is the better option.

I cannot justify the 400-500 for the 808.

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
quotequote all
eharding said:
How do they know how long the waiting list is going to be until Nokia announce a release date?
Nokia couldn't organise a device launch if they tried.
I expect most of wait list to vanish with iphone 5 availability and then Samsung and HTC to get their WP8 devices into retail in volume before Nokia.

Morningside

24,110 posts

228 months

Tuesday 11th September 2012
quotequote all
Anything has got to be better than my stty Nokia 5800. iPhone beater my arse!

lestag

4,614 posts

275 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
b0rk said:
Nokia couldn't organise a device launch if they tried.
I expect most of wait list to vanish with iphone 5 availability and then Samsung and HTC to get their WP8 devices into retail in volume before Nokia.
Apple have sole discretion as to when they launch there phone and how they control leaks
Nokia, samsung etc are limited by Microsoft and have to chase there tails.. Also MS is liable to their windows phone partners leaking details about eh new phones.

the only way for a MS phone to be released like an apple phone is to have MS build and supply the phones

Deluded

4,968 posts

190 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
clonmult said:
In theory, yes. In practice its got nowhere near the all round ability of the 808. Yes, it appears to have decent low light ability, but the lack of a decent flash is a huge oversight. It doesn't have anything like the video/audio capability of the 808 (ie. zoom, stereo rich recording, although apparently its got a mono variant), and its relatively lacking in storage.
Sorry but you forgot to mention that the 808 also comes with possibly the worst phone OS ever invented. Possibly the biggest mistake Nokia have ever made and what is likely to have put them in the situation they are currently in.

Lets build a fantastic phone with some amazing hardware that will blow every other phone out of the water... I know, lets stick this really st, relic of an OS on it that has no 3rd party support and no one likes as people will be so wowed by the tech, they will over look the OS... fk off.

They will never learn.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
Deluded said:
clonmult said:
In theory, yes. In practice its got nowhere near the all round ability of the 808. Yes, it appears to have decent low light ability, but the lack of a decent flash is a huge oversight. It doesn't have anything like the video/audio capability of the 808 (ie. zoom, stereo rich recording, although apparently its got a mono variant), and its relatively lacking in storage.
Sorry but you forgot to mention that the 808 also comes with possibly the worst phone OS ever invented. Possibly the biggest mistake Nokia have ever made and what is likely to have put them in the situation they are currently in.

Lets build a fantastic phone with some amazing hardware that will blow every other phone out of the water... I know, lets stick this really st, relic of an OS on it that has no 3rd party support and no one likes as people will be so wowed by the tech, they will over look the OS... fk off.

They will never learn.
bks.

Have you used an 808? Without exception, everyone who has used mine has been very impressed by its overall operation - its as smooth as any Android device that I've used, its quick, slick, etc etc.

And as for no 3rd party support, the Symbian store has around 100 thousand applications available. The only obvious app missing is Skype (which I've rarely used on any platform).

And there's also a huge difference between the OS and the interface; early touch Symbian was definitely rough - S^3 is totally different, although cosmetically similar.

Deluded

4,968 posts

190 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
clonmult said:
bks.

Have you used an 808? Without exception, everyone who has used mine has been very impressed by its overall operation - its as smooth as any Android device that I've used, its quick, slick, etc etc.

And as for no 3rd party support, the Symbian store has around 100 thousand applications available. The only obvious app missing is Skype (which I've rarely used on any platform).

And there's also a huge difference between the OS and the interface; early touch Symbian was definitely rough - S^3 is totally different, although cosmetically similar.
Nope, not used an 808 but have used symbian on many occasions and regardless of which version or on which phone, it's always been a useless pile of crap.

100 thousand apps available but how many are actually worth downloading or of any use? How many of the big name brands that people actually want to buy are on Symbian? Any? No. Because it's a useless waste of space with no future. Had the 808 atleast had Windows Phone 7, it may have been a world class phone. Symbian killed it before it was even released, hence why no network has taken it on.


clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
Deluded said:
clonmult said:
bks.

Have you used an 808? Without exception, everyone who has used mine has been very impressed by its overall operation - its as smooth as any Android device that I've used, its quick, slick, etc etc.

And as for no 3rd party support, the Symbian store has around 100 thousand applications available. The only obvious app missing is Skype (which I've rarely used on any platform).

And there's also a huge difference between the OS and the interface; early touch Symbian was definitely rough - S^3 is totally different, although cosmetically similar.
Nope, not used an 808 but have used symbian on many occasions and regardless of which version or on which phone, it's always been a useless pile of crap.

100 thousand apps available but how many are actually worth downloading or of any use? How many of the big name brands that people actually want to buy are on Symbian? Any? No. Because it's a useless waste of space with no future. Had the 808 atleast had Windows Phone 7, it may have been a world class phone. Symbian killed it before it was even released, hence why no network has taken it on.
Knocking something without having used it, how very useful. If the last one you used was something like the 5800 or an N97, your discounting the 808 is invalid. And the prior variants - N95 and the like - were damn good devices. Nokias problem was that they let the networks dictate changes to their devices and the firmwares, which often caused problems. Stock firmware was rarely problematic (aside from the N97, which was a huge own goal).

WP7 doesn't give any functionality over S^3 - if anything its a restricted subset of what you can do on the latter Symbian devices. For me - and many others - moving to WP would be a downgrade.

As for how many of the "big name brands" are available on it - haven't got a clue. Even when I had iOS devices, I rarely delved that much into the app markets. The only one that I've really used of any note is WhatsApp.

Deluded

4,968 posts

190 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
clonmult said:
Knocking something without having used it, how very useful. If the last one you used was something like the 5800 or an N97, your discounting the 808 is invalid. And the prior variants - N95 and the like - were damn good devices. Nokias problem was that they let the networks dictate changes to their devices and the firmwares, which often caused problems. Stock firmware was rarely problematic (aside from the N97, which was a huge own goal).

WP7 doesn't give any functionality over S^3 - if anything its a restricted subset of what you can do on the latter Symbian devices. For me - and many others - moving to WP would be a downgrade.

As for how many of the "big name brands" are available on it - haven't got a clue. Even when I had iOS devices, I rarely delved that much into the app markets. The only one that I've really used of any note is WhatsApp.
Ok, Agree to disagree. I can't be bothered to argue my point. But I will say, enjoy it while you can. Chances are, the 808 will be one of the last, if not the last, phone running Symbian and there are plenty of reasons why...

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
Deluded said:
Ok, Agree to disagree. I can't be bothered to argue my point. But I will say, enjoy it while you can. Chances are, the 808 will be one of the last, if not the last, phone running Symbian and there are plenty of reasons why...
I'll happily admit that there were issues with Nokias first attempts at touch screen phones, they made idiotic mistakes with backwards compatibility, some rushed products, and overall massively incompetent management (which goes way further back than Elop and his mind-numbingly stupid burning platform memo).

I'm happy with the 808 - and as it stands, doubt there will be anything coming along for a year or two that will be able to make a convincing argument for me to upgrade.

And yes, it is the last new Symbian device from Nokia.

TallbutBuxomly

12,254 posts

215 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
clonmult said:
Deluded said:
Ok, Agree to disagree. I can't be bothered to argue my point. But I will say, enjoy it while you can. Chances are, the 808 will be one of the last, if not the last, phone running Symbian and there are plenty of reasons why...
I'll happily admit that there were issues with Nokias first attempts at touch screen phones, they made idiotic mistakes with backwards compatibility, some rushed products, and overall massively incompetent management (which goes way further back than Elop and his mind-numbingly stupid burning platform memo).

I'm happy with the 808 - and as it stands, doubt there will be anything coming along for a year or two that will be able to make a convincing argument for me to upgrade.

And yes, it is the last new Symbian device from Nokia.
Absolutely correct Clonmult. Deluded is just that. Symbian Belle uninterfered with is a wonderful op system and what symbian always should have been. Fantastically smooth and easy to use and a major oversight on Elops part.

I suspect that there was a possibility granted a bit pie in the sky that symbian and memo/harmatten and wp should have been available and supported on nokia devices.

Adapt them to be inter hardware compliant and allow the customer the option of op system on their nokia providing the software is easily compatible. Hell possibly even make it chargeable so if someone buys a nokia and opts for wm and then later decides they would rather memo nokia could charge them to change the op system and it could be done online.

WP8 however seems popular and the 920 appears to be being very well received with a lot of people saying they plan on swapping from android s3's etc to WM8.

As to those saying nokias problems with launch etc are down to MS its utter bks. Nokia have a habit of announcing phones but giving no launch/on sale date and price or of launching a phone announces on availability date and then rescinding and moving release date due to issues.

Then there is the piss poor customer service when there are issues where nokia would rather blame the user than acknowledge and deal with any common issues.

simonrockman

6,843 posts

254 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
At least the 920 has new stuff, the iPhone 5 is purely incremental. There is little reason to upgrade.

Simon

Xaero

4,060 posts

214 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
Morningside said:
Anything has got to be better than my stty Nokia 5800. iPhone beater my arse!
Ah the phone that put me off Nokia for quite a while and helped me chose Apple for the first time. I broke 2 screens on them (at least they were cheap to replace) and the sides just started to split because it was bolted together so badly.

Even my die hard nokia fan friend said it was terrible.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
simonrockman said:
At least the 920 has new stuff, the iPhone 5 is purely incremental. There is little reason to upgrade.

Simon
Its got the camera and an indecently high res screen, but what else is truly new on the 920 that hasn't been seen on other devices?

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
Xaero said:
Morningside said:
Anything has got to be better than my stty Nokia 5800. iPhone beater my arse!
Ah the phone that put me off Nokia for quite a while and helped me chose Apple for the first time. I broke 2 screens on them (at least they were cheap to replace) and the sides just started to split because it was bolted together so badly.

Even my die hard nokia fan friend said it was terrible.
Early teasers of what Nokia could be bringing with the 5800 were very tempting, I picked one up on an upgrade and kept it for a couple of days, it did suck. Then gave it to the stepson. A little while later I decided to try the cut price version (5230), and it was massively improved - almost a night and day difference in usability.

AnotherClarkey

3,589 posts

188 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
I really liked my 5800 - software updates really helped it. In some ways I preferred he resistive touchscreen over more modern tech and the sound quality was truly excellent.

clonmult

10,529 posts

208 months

Wednesday 12th September 2012
quotequote all
AnotherClarkey said:
I really liked my 5800 - software updates really helped it. In some ways I preferred he resistive touchscreen over more modern tech and the sound quality was truly excellent.
At least on the release firmware, I always felt it was awkward to navigate. Agreed that software updates helped in a big way.

Agreed on sound quality - at least on headphones, something that Nokia have tended to get right all along.

b0rk

2,289 posts

145 months

Thursday 13th September 2012
quotequote all
lestag said:
Nokia, samsung etc are limited by Microsoft and have to chase there tails.. Also MS is liable to their windows phone partners leaking details about eh new phones.

the only way for a MS phone to be released like an apple phone is to have MS build and supply the phones
Whilst the software side is very much outside of Nokia's control the hardware side in terms of having factories geared up ready for production certainly is something they can and do control. When Nokia used to develop their own OS (Symbian, Meego, Maemo) I can't recall them ever having managed to get a single handset on sale within a month of announcement let alone the 5 to 10 days apple manage. Moreover the Lumia 900 using then "mature" WP7.5 was announced and launched at CES in Jan but only released worldwide in late April / early May. Four months from launch to release is poor showing IMHO.

Samsung managed to announce and release the Galaxy S3 in the same month using a third party OS.