Java

[Olivera]

I agree that applets are redundant these days and Java update notifications are very irritating. However in my experience Java is still the preeminent language for server side applications. It can also be used to create pretty damn good thick clients too - see the Eclipse IDE for an example.

[130R]

http://www.tiobe.com/content/paperinfo/tpci/index....

[ian in lancs]

Ah, I need it for the educational discount page on Adobe's web-site :-(

[ian in lancs]

The fking Adobe website is saying:

You may not have everything you need to view certain sections of macromedia.com. To address issues with your browser or media preferences see below:

---

Upgrade to JavaScript 1.2 or higher
This site requires JavaScript 1.2 or higher. To view this site:

Enable JavaScript in your browser. Consult your browser's Help section for information on how to change this setting.
Upgrade your browser to a version that supports JavaScript 1.2 or higher. Macromedia recommends downloading the latest version of one of the following browsers:

Microsoft Internet Explorer >

Netscape Navigator >

Mozilla >

Safari >

AOL >

---

Enable cookiesYour browser options are currently set to disable cookies. To use certain areas of macromedia.com, you must enable cookies. Consult your browser's Help section for information on how to change this setting.

---

Install Macromedia Flash Player

For more detailed information about site viewing requirements, read TechNote 18501.


I've done all that st and it still wont load! Time wasters! Any ideas?

[Ordinary_Chap]

Sometimes the java/adobe bashing is quite amusing when it backfires.

I mean really if it needs to be patched so what! My Macbook pro/Windows 7 machine also do the same thing a rather lot. Just let it get on with it, takes 20 seconds....sheesh

There is nothing wrong with java, just badly written java apps.

It in that sense is no different to any other programming language.

[Agent 57]

ian in lancs said:

The fking Adobe website is saying:
..... JavaScript.....

... Flash Player .....

Time wasters! Any ideas?

Neither Javascript nor Flash are in any way related to Java. I'd suggest installing the latest version of Chrome - it has a very good Javascript engine and includes a recent version of Flash.

[MH]

Ordinary_Chap said:

Sometimes the java/adobe bashing is quite amusing when it backfires.

I mean really if it needs to be patched so what! My Macbook pro/Windows 7 machine also do the same thing a rather lot. Just let it get on with it, takes 20 seconds....sheesh

There is nothing wrong with java, just badly written java apps.

It in that sense is no different to any other programming language.

I totally agree.

I'm interested where an earlier poster gets the 'Java client' concept from. As far as I'm aware there is no such thing. Yes you can write a 'client' application in Java but there is no 'Java client'. Maybe he meant runtime environment - but that in itself is not a memory hog unless the app (or libraries that it uses) running within it is causing it to take up memory.

Mike

[ian in lancs]

Ordinary_Chap said:

Just let it get on with it, takes 20 seconds....sheesh

Downloaded what they said and the page still doesn't load so resorted to my laptop and IPad.

Maybe my time is more precious than others!

[MH]

ian in lancs said:

Maybe my time is more precious than others!

Maybe or maybe you've just fooked up your o/s and browser installation by not knowing what you're doing?

Why meddle with stuff, uninstall this that and the other on the advice of people who don't know what they're talking about? Anyone dismissing Java as a POS falls into that category.

Mike

[grumbledoak]

MH said:

"deprecated"

Get real. Sun haven't had a happy history of compilers, development environments, or langauges. They even had to game the performance tests of their own runtime when MS was beating them. Java is still here, but it has been a solution looking for a problem for quite a while, and none of them have really 'stuck'.

[Morningside]

Now this is what I am finding in the world of the Internet as well

Java
C++ Runtime
.NET
Silverlight

and loads of other bloody thing.

Yes, I can see the point of them BUT it makes a small application sodding huge due to all the un-used dead-weight within the addon.

Stop cluttering up my computer!


Only good use I find for Java is a Sinclair Spectrum Emulator
http://www.twinbee.org/hob/play.php?snap=knightlor...

or BBC
http://jemu.winape.net/

[S13_Alan]

Obviously all those who think installing the JRE and keeping it up to date is such a hassle, must love sitting staring in to space while Windows sits installing all the .NET framework versions and updates that's required to run any similar stuff on the MS side.

I couldn't tell you how often minor updates are done to it (I only use Windows at work), but I suspect most are packaged into Windows updates, and thus you probably just take it for granted that it's another security update to the seemingly endless number there are every time mine runs.

Java isn't a very good desktop app candidate granted (despite having Eclipse, and other apps using SWT) but then again you could sit and have the argument about the JVM and Java not being the same thing for a while. It's certainly more flexible outside the seemingly blinkered MS world anyway than any .NET language, you know, where running MS Servers is seen as a bad thing, or people want to escape it all that st on their desktops.

[130R]

grumbledoak said:

Get real. Sun haven't had a happy history of compilers, development environments, or langauges. They even had to game the performance tests of their own runtime when MS was beating them. Java is still here, but it has been a solution looking for a problem for quite a while, and none of them have really 'stuck'.

Sun are now Oracle. Look at the link I posted at the top of this page. Admit you don't know the difference between the jvm and the java language ...

[grumbledoak]

130R said:

Admit you don't know the difference between the jvm and the java language ...

Well, at least that bit was funny.

[MH]

grumbledoak said:

Get real. Sun haven't had a happy history of compilers, development environments, or langauges. They even had to game the performance tests of their own runtime when MS was beating them.

MS beating the Sun runtime, what are you referring to?

grumbledoak said:

Java is still here, but it has been a solution looking for a problem for quite a while, and none of them have really 'stuck'.

If you are referring to the original write once run anywhere idea, then yes that's no big deal anymore but Java is now most definitely a mainstream language. Imagine for a minute you are the IT boss of a multi billion pound organisation and you've been asked to find an ERP system - should you go for Oracle, SAP ?? Oh look they both run Java, strike them off the list then as Java sucks! Or you need an SOA architecture to bring a bunch of other systems together - as they used to say no-one gets sacked for buying IBM and their Websphere product looks ok. Oh bugger that uses Java so scrap that too.

Maybe the end is nigh for Java after all, it clearly serves no purpose.

Mike

[NDA]

I have no Java now on my system and all is running well.

In fact (*&*(& &* *&)%$&^%$%$ 75 &^%*&^$ abd stuff.

[ian in lancs]

Is it really needed for the PC in my study at home that's running Windows, Office, Lightroom. Photoshop and ITunes? Nope, thought not!

So why did it need to constantly annoy with updates like some irritating yapping dog. I get why AV and Windoze and Adobe stuff has to update but not every five minutes FFS.

Ive removed it from my lap-top to no ill effect; just my desk-top that wont load an Adobe page. Other that that its fine. Adobe's and Java's loss.

Timewasters! Along with all the other parasites in the IT world that push stuff in ones face or produce web-pages that are rewrites of captures search terms and have no relation to the search other than drawing into their products. And finally, glossy but obtuse websites, clearly constructed by geeks, that link in circles - Adobe (again) - have you seen it lately? Morons!

[Ordinary_Chap]

ian in lancs said:

Is it really needed for the PC in my study at home that's running Windows, Office, Lightroom. Photoshop and ITunes? Nope, thought not!

So why did it need to constantly annoy with updates like some irritating yapping dog. I get why AV and Windoze and Adobe stuff has to update but not every five minutes FFS.

Ive removed it from my lap-top to no ill effect; just my desk-top that wont load an Adobe page. Other that that its fine. Adobe's and Java's loss.

Timewasters! Along with all the other parasites in the IT world that push stuff in ones face or produce web-pages that are rewrites of captures search terms and have no relation to the search other than drawing into their products. And finally, glossy but obtuse websites, clearly constructed by geeks, that link in circles - Adobe (again) - have you seen it lately? Morons!

You're so far out about this it's not even funny.

By your own admission you've already run into a problem and as such its fairly clear you'd rather spend you're time having a nonsensical rant about the technology and running into problems than actually spending less than 30 seconds updating it, clever?

But hey if you'd much prefer to waste you're time having a ridiculous rant and reduce your machines functionality whilst depriving yourself of access to resources you want to get too, fill your boots.

[FlossyThePig]

Mazdarese said:

130R said:

I'm also of the opinion applets are pretty awful, I think the last time I saw anyone doing any development with them was back in the late 90's. Having said that we use HP Quality Center at work which is based on active x and that is a pile of garbage too, so maybe it is just all HP software

They should stick to servers.

I have used Quality Center since it was called TestDirector (originally client/server) and owned by Mercury Interactive.

Most of the problems I have encountered come down to one of two things:

1. It has not been set up properly.
2. The users have not been trained how to use it.

It is mainly the second as most organisations very rarely train staff in use of core software.

How many have received word processing training?