Just bought a R107
Discussion
Dave211 said:
From my tour round the SLShop by Bruce, showing the amount of work that goes into some parts of bodywork restoration, I would say 5k could get swallowed up in no time on the wrong car !
I think if you share your budget with the guys there, they should be able to supply the car you are after.
Thanks. I am planning to go to the SL shop as I hear nothing but good things about them. Can you just drop in? I think if you share your budget with the guys there, they should be able to supply the car you are after.
What i would say is that the car with right colour, and leather and low miles (sub 70k) can be 2x the price of an approaching car.
For example, imagine a post 1986 500 sl with black-black, leather and 30k miles, with aircon and heated seats, assuming the body and under body condition matches expectations would sell for 45k min.
You can't verify this, because there is hardly anything matching that description!
Desireable colours are:
Black,
Blue-black (mine),
Midnight blue,
Nautic blue is very popular (i don't like it much).
Others like:
Red
Almandine
Surf blue
White (i like white!)
Petrol blue
Etc...
Are Much less wanted and price can be 5-6-7k cheaper for an equivalent model with 'better' colour.
Leather is very important. Hardly anyone trimmer can change cloth to leather correctly. Whatever they say. I have seen a dozen retrimmed cars. None was exactly right. Firstle, mercedes leather with holes in the middle section is very difficult to source and retrim right. Then the door cards have to be swapped on a leather car for m-b tex (!) ones.
Effectively, cloth seats cars hace cloth on doors. Mb tex and leather cars have mb tex door cards. It is wrong to try and put leather door cards on these cars!
The woods are very often faded even on low mileage cars. I had my 2 r107s done and it is hard to find the right people for the job. Bruce has one vy good chap. It is expensive.
There are so many corrosion poiints on these cars i can't even start a list here. But here are a few examples: heater matrix, spare wheels well with rust at 4pm, windscreen surrounds. Check for bubbles on lower part of doors.
Rust is these cars Achilles heal.
Put the car on a ramp and looking underneath them is paramount! My current 300sl was mint on surface when i bought it and just over 50k miles. Yet, i just spent 5k dismentling all suspension, treating all springs and suspension arms against corrosion. We swapped for new shocks in the process and a set of new discs as they were slightly wrapped.
Then i had all sorts of modernisations done to the car:
And dozens of other small details to make the car 'spot on'.
The whole process takes time and i am very fussy. Bruce is a top man though. He is very budget conscious and will always try to give you the best bang for your buck.
What is paramount is to start with a sound car. Sound meaning checking it thoroughly underneath too!
Any advice much appreciated.
For example, imagine a post 1986 500 sl with black-black, leather and 30k miles, with aircon and heated seats, assuming the body and under body condition matches expectations would sell for 45k min.
You can't verify this, because there is hardly anything matching that description!
Desireable colours are:
Black,
Blue-black (mine),
Midnight blue,
Nautic blue is very popular (i don't like it much).
Others like:
Red
Almandine
Surf blue
White (i like white!)
Petrol blue
Etc...
Are Much less wanted and price can be 5-6-7k cheaper for an equivalent model with 'better' colour.
Leather is very important. Hardly anyone trimmer can change cloth to leather correctly. Whatever they say. I have seen a dozen retrimmed cars. None was exactly right. Firstle, mercedes leather with holes in the middle section is very difficult to source and retrim right. Then the door cards have to be swapped on a leather car for m-b tex (!) ones.
Effectively, cloth seats cars hace cloth on doors. Mb tex and leather cars have mb tex door cards. It is wrong to try and put leather door cards on these cars!
The woods are very often faded even on low mileage cars. I had my 2 r107s done and it is hard to find the right people for the job. Bruce has one vy good chap. It is expensive.
There are so many corrosion poiints on these cars i can't even start a list here. But here are a few examples: heater matrix, spare wheels well with rust at 4pm, windscreen surrounds. Check for bubbles on lower part of doors.
Rust is these cars Achilles heal.
Put the car on a ramp and looking underneath them is paramount! My current 300sl was mint on surface when i bought it and just over 50k miles. Yet, i just spent 5k dismentling all suspension, treating all springs and suspension arms against corrosion. We swapped for new shocks in the process and a set of new discs as they were slightly wrapped.
Then i had all sorts of modernisations done to the car:
- Concealed stereo with Becker cascade head unit to stick with originality. Original sound system is appaling at best. Latest alpine speakers to replace old ones in original space. Mini self powered subwoofer under seat, to avoid amp and drilling holes at the back which would have been unsightly. Everything can be reversed to standard very easily. The sound is so good now that no one would dare reversing anyway. Oh, got ipod connection in glove box and post code satnav too!
- powerfull bulbs to see something at night... All lights were taken out and cleaned up tos harpen up the looks of the car. Ever noticed how most r107 headlights look dull?
- wheels finished is slightly brighter and ,etallic finish as the factory finish is so dull. Also concealed weight balance at the back of the rim. From the factory, they are visible at the front of the rim wich is unsightly on flat face alloys.
- new correct tyes all around, new original windscreen.
- paint correction by rob tomlinson ate supercar detailing, and nanotech sealant ple22. I hate paint swirrles with a passion and old paints need protection.
- new old stock original mats. All seats have been taken out and carpets steam cleaned 3 times before refit..
- bit of under bonnet detailing involving manual cleaning. Remove obsolete alarm system that are useless anyway. Change all fluid bottles that yellowed overtime for new ones.
And dozens of other small details to make the car 'spot on'.
The whole process takes time and i am very fussy. Bruce is a top man though. He is very budget conscious and will always try to give you the best bang for your buck.
What is paramount is to start with a sound car. Sound meaning checking it thoroughly underneath too!
nickod said:
erics said:
Been using Sam and superman Bruce at the SL shop for years.
Outstanding service. Great, great guys. Bruce has provided me with the best service bar none in the car industry. I have been through many many many brands and cars!
Well spec'd post 1986 r 107s are now well passed 30k.
Go try and find a well kept dark colour, leather seats, sub-50k miles, no-rot below that money is nigh on impossible.
I'm assuming (or hoping) you are referring to sub 50k miles cars being over 30k. I've got a budget of 20-24k and am hoping I could get a black 300sl with around 70-80k mies. Not too concerned re leather as I like the check seats.I can't decide whether to buy dealer or save 5k or so privately and spend that on bodywork. Would 5k go a long way? I'm not talking total resto - rather just totally sorting out any body problems on a good private buy that the best dealers would have sorted for their cars. I've certainly noticed that the lighter colours and red are less expensive. What generally is the premium for leather?Outstanding service. Great, great guys. Bruce has provided me with the best service bar none in the car industry. I have been through many many many brands and cars!
Well spec'd post 1986 r 107s are now well passed 30k.
Go try and find a well kept dark colour, leather seats, sub-50k miles, no-rot below that money is nigh on impossible.
Any advice much appreciated.
I fancied a 107 but ended up with a 129 for practical reasons. I almost went to see this one 9 months ago (a bit cheaper then) love the colour and the wheels.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
I'm surprised it's still with the dealer actually
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...
I'm surprised it's still with the dealer actually
I bought myself an R107 a few months ago. A rare 350SL manual.. So rare infact that it has proved quite a challenge to get replacement clutch hydraulics after she sprung a leak. Hopefully the last piece arrives Wednesday. She's only done 49k miles since new in 1979...
Ahem....mine is the best colour being in Astral Silver with blue leather and blue hood....
Ahem....mine is the best colour being in Astral Silver with blue leather and blue hood....
Edited by Big Brin on Sunday 25th May 19:05
[quote=erics]What i would say is that the car with right colour, and leather and low miles (sub 70k) can be 2x the price of an approaching car.
For example, imagine a post 1986 500 sl with black-black, leather and 30k miles, with aircon and heated seats, assuming the body and under body condition matches expectations would sell for 45k min.
You can't verify this, because there is hardly anything matching that description!
Desireable colours are:
Black,
Blue-black (mine),
Midnight blue,
Nautic blue is very popular (i don't like it much).
Others like:
Red
Almandine
Surf blue
White (i like white!)
Petrol blue
Etc...
Are Much less wanted and price can be 5-6-7k cheaper for an equivalent model with 'better' colour.
Leather is very important. Hardly anyone trimmer can change cloth to leather correctly. Whatever they say. I have seen a dozen retrimmed cars. None was exactly right. Firstle, mercedes leather with holes in the middle section is very difficult to source and retrim right. Then the door cards have to be swapped on a leather car for m-b tex (!) ones.
Effectively, cloth seats cars hace cloth on doors. Mb tex and leather cars have mb tex door cards. It is wrong to try and put leather door cards on these cars!
The woods are very often faded even on low mileage cars. I had my 2 r107s done and it is hard to find the right people for the job. Bruce has one vy good chap. It is expensive.
There are so many corrosion poiints on these cars i can't even start a list here. But here are a few examples: heater matrix, spare wheels well with rust at 4pm, windscreen surrounds. Check for bubbles on lower part of doors.
Rust is these cars Achilles heal.
Put the car on a ramp and looking underneath them is paramount! My current 300sl was mint on surface when i bought it and just over 50k miles. Yet, i just spent 5k dismentling all suspension, treating all springs and suspension arms against corrosion. We swapped for new shocks in the process and a set of new discs as they were slightly wrapped.
Then i had all sorts of modernisations done to the car:
And dozens of other small details to make the car 'spot on'.
The whole process takes time and i am very fussy. Bruce is a top man though. He is very budget conscious and will always try to give you the best bang for your buck.
What is paramount is to start with a sound car. Sound meaning checking it thoroughly underneath too!
[quote=nickod][quote=erics]Been using Sam and superman Bruce at the SL shop for years.
Outstanding service. Great, great guys. Bruce has provided me with the best service bar none in the car industry. I have been through many many many brands and cars!
Well spec'd post 1986 r 107s are now well passed 30k.
Go try and find a well kept dark colour, leather seats, sub-50k miles, no-rot below that money is nigh on impossible.
Thanks for your detailed reply. I will go and speak to the sl shop people.
How much is it to polish/restore the wood?
Re cloth I'm ok with it and wouldn't seek to change it.
Air con would not be a must for me.
Heated seats I would like though but for the right car I could forgo these.
I pretty much only want black or blue black which limits me somewhat although I do like the light metallic green (willow?) and some of the very rare colours ( pajet? Dk green?).
The stereo idea sounds Great - what does it cost? I would consider it for one of my 124's now. .
I'm now thinking cloth and no aircon on a dark green 75-85k miler could be worth a lot less than a black with aircon heated seats and leather on 30k miles.
Part of me still feels a well considered and negotiated purchase privately at 15k and then spending up to 10feels like it should work but I will wait to chat to the SL guys.
For example, imagine a post 1986 500 sl with black-black, leather and 30k miles, with aircon and heated seats, assuming the body and under body condition matches expectations would sell for 45k min.
You can't verify this, because there is hardly anything matching that description!
Desireable colours are:
Black,
Blue-black (mine),
Midnight blue,
Nautic blue is very popular (i don't like it much).
Others like:
Red
Almandine
Surf blue
White (i like white!)
Petrol blue
Etc...
Are Much less wanted and price can be 5-6-7k cheaper for an equivalent model with 'better' colour.
Leather is very important. Hardly anyone trimmer can change cloth to leather correctly. Whatever they say. I have seen a dozen retrimmed cars. None was exactly right. Firstle, mercedes leather with holes in the middle section is very difficult to source and retrim right. Then the door cards have to be swapped on a leather car for m-b tex (!) ones.
Effectively, cloth seats cars hace cloth on doors. Mb tex and leather cars have mb tex door cards. It is wrong to try and put leather door cards on these cars!
The woods are very often faded even on low mileage cars. I had my 2 r107s done and it is hard to find the right people for the job. Bruce has one vy good chap. It is expensive.
There are so many corrosion poiints on these cars i can't even start a list here. But here are a few examples: heater matrix, spare wheels well with rust at 4pm, windscreen surrounds. Check for bubbles on lower part of doors.
Rust is these cars Achilles heal.
Put the car on a ramp and looking underneath them is paramount! My current 300sl was mint on surface when i bought it and just over 50k miles. Yet, i just spent 5k dismentling all suspension, treating all springs and suspension arms against corrosion. We swapped for new shocks in the process and a set of new discs as they were slightly wrapped.
Then i had all sorts of modernisations done to the car:
- Concealed stereo with Becker cascade head unit to stick with originality. Original sound system is appaling at best. Latest alpine speakers to replace old ones in original space. Mini self powered subwoofer under seat, to avoid amp and drilling holes at the back which would have been unsightly. Everything can be reversed to standard very easily. The sound is so good now that no one would dare reversing anyway. Oh, got ipod connection in glove box and post code satnav too!
- powerfull bulbs to see something at night... All lights were taken out and cleaned up tos harpen up the looks of the car. Ever noticed how most r107 headlights look dull?
- wheels finished is slightly brighter and ,etallic finish as the factory finish is so dull. Also concealed weight balance at the back of the rim. From the factory, they are visible at the front of the rim wich is unsightly on flat face alloys.
- new correct tyes all around, new original windscreen.
- paint correction by rob tomlinson ate supercar detailing, and nanotech sealant ple22. I hate paint swirrles with a passion and old paints need protection.
- new old stock original mats. All seats have been taken out and carpets steam cleaned 3 times before refit..
- bit of under bonnet detailing involving manual cleaning. Remove obsolete alarm system that are useless anyway. Change all fluid bottles that yellowed overtime for new ones.
And dozens of other small details to make the car 'spot on'.
The whole process takes time and i am very fussy. Bruce is a top man though. He is very budget conscious and will always try to give you the best bang for your buck.
What is paramount is to start with a sound car. Sound meaning checking it thoroughly underneath too!
[quote=nickod][quote=erics]Been using Sam and superman Bruce at the SL shop for years.
Outstanding service. Great, great guys. Bruce has provided me with the best service bar none in the car industry. I have been through many many many brands and cars!
Well spec'd post 1986 r 107s are now well passed 30k.
Go try and find a well kept dark colour, leather seats, sub-50k miles, no-rot below that money is nigh on impossible.
Thanks for your detailed reply. I will go and speak to the sl shop people.
How much is it to polish/restore the wood?
Re cloth I'm ok with it and wouldn't seek to change it.
Air con would not be a must for me.
Heated seats I would like though but for the right car I could forgo these.
I pretty much only want black or blue black which limits me somewhat although I do like the light metallic green (willow?) and some of the very rare colours ( pajet? Dk green?).
The stereo idea sounds Great - what does it cost? I would consider it for one of my 124's now. .
I'm now thinking cloth and no aircon on a dark green 75-85k miler could be worth a lot less than a black with aircon heated seats and leather on 30k miles.
Part of me still feels a well considered and negotiated purchase privately at 15k and then spending up to 10feels like it should work but I will wait to chat to the SL guys.
idiotgap said:
nickod said:
The stereo idea sounds Great - what does it cost? I would consider it for one of my 124's now. .
The becker head units are quite rare now since becker stopped making them a few years ago. You'll still see them on ebay, but probably about 500.How much is it to polish/restore the wood?
Re cloth I'm ok with it and wouldn't seek to change it.
Air con would not be a must for me.
Heated seats I would like though but for the right car I could forgo these.
I pretty much only want black or blue black which limits me somewhat although I do like the light metallic green (willow?) and some of the very rare colours ( pajet? Dk green?).
The stereo idea sounds Great - what does it cost? I would consider it for one of my 124's now. .
I'm now thinking cloth and no aircon on a dark green 75-85k miler could be worth a lot less than a black with aircon heated seats and leather on 30k miles.
Part of me still feels a well considered and negotiated purchase privately at 15k and then spending up to 10feels like it should work but I will wait to chat to the SL guys.
[/quote]
Woods were 700-1k i think.
Pajet / willow green not desireable.
I saw dark pine green a few years back and that is very very very rare. And nice.
With these cars nowadays, you usually get what you pay for.
Having had 2 cars and going through ini restoration each time, i would say: buy the very best you can afford to start with...,
There's a nice blue-black 500SL just on gone on the SL Shop website. It's a G reg so one of the very last ones made. Mileage quite high but well kitted out.
I'm loving my 420SL so far. Just getting the hang of putting the (blue) hood up and down. Very much the opposite of today's push button convertibles!
I'm loving my 420SL so far. Just getting the hang of putting the (blue) hood up and down. Very much the opposite of today's push button convertibles!
nickod said:
I'm assuming (or hoping) you are referring to sub 50k miles cars being over 30k. I've got a budget of 20-24k and am hoping I could get a black 300sl with around 70-80k mies. Not too concerned re leather as I like the check seats.I can't decide whether to buy dealer or save 5k or so privately and spend that on bodywork. Would 5k go a long way? I'm not talking total resto - rather just totally sorting out any body problems on a good private buy that the best dealers would have sorted for their cars. I've certainly noticed that the lighter colours and red are less expensive. What generally is the premium for leather?
Any advice much appreciated.
I have a lovely '89 fully sorted Nautic Blue with cream leather 420SL that could be for sale if you are interested.Any advice much appreciated.
One of the main attractions for me was that the R107 offers a retro early seventies look with late eighties tech (if you buy the right model). As a result I settled on red with sports cloth which I feel enhances the retro look of the car - and it took me ages to find a good one ( a 2 owner low mileage car from SL Shop in the end).
Point I am trying to make is buy the spec you want and worry less about subdued shades that are popular currently. Mine does look a bit like a fire engine though - all red paint and chrome
Point I am trying to make is buy the spec you want and worry less about subdued shades that are popular currently. Mine does look a bit like a fire engine though - all red paint and chrome
drmark said:
One of the main attractions for me was that the R107 offers a retro early seventies look with late eighties tech (if you buy the right model). As a result I settled on red with sports cloth which I feel enhances the retro look of the car - and it took me ages to find a good one ( a 2 owner low mileage car from SL Shop in the end).
Point I am trying to make is buy the spec you want and worry less about subdued shades that are popular currently. Mine does look a bit like a fire engine though - all red paint and chrome
It's why I like the check seats and also in some colours prefer the prefaceliftcars with the painted wheels.. I'm pretty much decided on black or dark green and a 300. Just need to go to the sl shop and start looking privately too. I'm wary of the other specialists especially after reading that a 20k plus avantgarde car had 5 stamps in the book and looking at Ironsides pricing( although his prices do seem to be all over the place for SL's.).Point I am trying to make is buy the spec you want and worry less about subdued shades that are popular currently. Mine does look a bit like a fire engine though - all red paint and chrome
Hilton & Moss have several nice cars below £30k. I know someone who paid £15k 2 months ago for a 50k miler. Don't believe that the only place to go is the SL Shop. I am sure they're great, but it comes at a price.
Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
rubystone said:
Hilton & Moss have several nice cars below £30k. I know someone who paid £15k 2 months ago for a 50k miler. Don't believe that the only place to go is the SL Shop. I am sure they're great, but it comes at a price.
Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
did the 50k miles have full history?Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
what colour and options?
what condition etc?
it is not like buying a 4/5 year old porsche 996 or 997.. The condition varies hugely from one car to another. I bought a low mileage blue-black car with 50k miles on it, paid good money for it and still spent £10k to make it 'right'. Despite the fact that it was a VERY good example to start with. I should note that a lot of the £10k work was done at trade price..
Edited by erics on Tuesday 27th May 15:35
rubystone said:
Hilton & Moss have several nice cars below £30k. I know someone who paid £15k 2 months ago for a 50k miler. Don't believe that the only place to go is the SL Shop. I am sure they're great, but it comes at a price.
Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
http://www.hiltonandmoss.com/cardesc/mercedes-benz-500-sl-171Arm yourself with knowledge of the car's weak points and go and check some out. it isn't as if they are build out of carbon and run on virgin's sweat is it? But I would echo the point that you're looking at big bucks to restore one - not only labour, but parts are not cheap either, especially trim.
Pre-facelift cars like this one are considerably cheaper.
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