CL 600 or CL 55K AMG?

CL 600 or CL 55K AMG?

Author
Discussion

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Both are offering astounding value for money in W215 form at the moment.

I appreciate the 600 biturbo would be needed to match an AMG which appears to rev quite a bit higher but, well, a V12 is a V12.

It would be great to hear from anyone with first hand knowledge of both.

cheers

BernardBarnett

1 posts

161 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
Mercedes's own performance data give identical top speed (155 mph) and 0-62.5 time (4.8 seconds) for late versions (post 2003) of both models. The 600 is a virtually silent palace on wheels, the V8 is the noisier sportier version yet with no performance advantage. Good examples of both are pretty rare.

therevday

374 posts

208 months

Wednesday 22nd October 2014
quotequote all
I have had both.They are both great cars but totally different to drive.The 55 felt smaller and more fun to drive,with a great soundtrack. The 600 though very fast, felt like it was a big car and not as much fun to throw through bends.The 600 may as well have been a 600 saloon because thats how it felt.Rumor has it that 600 bi turbos are really about 530bhp but Merc did not want them overshadowing their sportier AMG models

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Not got both, but have just bought a 2003 55 with only 38k miles on her. It replaced a BMW 645 and is my first MB. It's bloody lovely! Great sound track as mentioned.

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks to all.

Where did you get the 55? Did you get a warranty to cover ABC issues and other potential issues?

I'm thinking full MB service history must be worth a lot.

CL65 is the dream but there don't seem to be any for sale anywhere. I imagine they are a lot pricier too.

Check out this early 55 AMG with some tenuous F1 connection for sale asking for £49,000 for a LHD! I know these were very rare but really?!

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/m...

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Another thing I like about the CL is that it's a proper 4 seater. Room for 4 adults no problem. Something like an XKR isn't really any better than a 911. My kids will be too big for a typical 2+2 in a couple of years.

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
I looked at XKR's too, I think the rear is even worse than a 911, and coming from the 6 series the rear room is better.

I found it privately, mostly MB history with some MB specialist, I was a mechanic so feel OK looking a car over. I looked at the MB warranty (through Mondial) but at £2k/year I'd rather put the money aside and as I do most of my own maintainance keeping the MB warranty would need ongoig MB serviceing.


The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Thursday 23rd October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks, I thought it would need ongoing MB service for the warranty. I imagine they'd want full MB history before they took the £2k too. But that is a is a lot, the cost of the car within 5 years! I had heard fixing ABC can be as much as £1500 a corner though.

Might be a lot cheaper to do a course in mechanics!

W8aMinute

70 posts

150 months

Sunday 26th October 2014
quotequote all
Another recent CL55K owner here. From my understanding, the CL600 is a quicker car although the engine will require deeper pockets than the 55's which is pretty much bullet-proof.

I bought mine with a smidge over 100k on the clock and a full MB service history and it's been pretty good so far. There were a few issues that I fixed myself (the fiddliest one being a broken air line to the front driver's seat) and I took it to an independent to have the rocker cover gaskets and a driver's door seal replaced (£500ish). The ABC pump is slightly worn and will need replacing at some point (£1,400) but I haven't had any warnings in the dash yet. Unfortunately, the additional key I ordered from MB killed the immobiliser so it's currently been flatbedded to the dealer for sorting...

From a few months with it, I'm impressed. The power is obviously hilarious although a limited slip diff is on my "to do" list since the rear tyres will spin with minimal provocation. It's also a heavy old thing (although lighter than the SL55 and CLS55) and the combination of nuclear power and refinement has meant that I've arrived at corners doing quite a bit more than I anticipated. At cruising speed I'd say it's not as refined as my Phaeton and the ABC also has difficulty dealing with road imperfections which can send surprising shudders through the car. That said, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anything that offers its balance of performance and refinement for anything near the price they're going for now.

Things to look for when buying a second-hand CL55:

Engine: Not much seems to go wrong with the M113 engine. The supercharger clutch can sometimes start to wear which manifests itself as a chirp when it engages. Replacement can be quite expensive but squirting some graphite lube has apparently reduced the problem for some people. The intercooler pumps will almost invariably go bad which results in the engine losing power after some heavy throttle use (the ECU switches off the supercharger if inlet temps get too high). The updated Bosch pump currently sells for £160-200 online. Fitting can be done at home (I managed!) and takes about an hour.

Suspension: Obviously, the ABC is the source of most problems (and apparently stands for All Bank Contents...) When inspecting a car, check the condition of the fluid from the ABC reservoir with a white cloth. The fluid is green when fresh and anything up to grey is okay(ish). If it's brown, black or smells burnt, run away. Check that all the struts are dry as leaks generally require the strut to be replaced (£1k+). Also check the condition of the joints where the struts meet the suspension arms as these can be difficult to replace. Listen for noise from the engine bay when it's running. A worn ABC pump generates a bearing-like noise that tends to go away when the suspension button is set to the highest level. Valve bodies can also go bad which causes the car to settle down if it's been left for a short time (it's okay for it to drop after a week or so of not being used). Although some DIY fixes are possible, you're usually better off taking it to someone who has dealt with ABC systems before as the interconnected nature means problems at one component can have a knock-on effect on the others.

Bodywork: Thanks to Mercedes using virtually every material in the CL's construction (steel, magnesium, aluminium etc...) corrosion can be a problem. the usual problem areas are the wheel arches and where the c-pillar meets the body. Repairs need the aluminium to be etch primed and can be expensive (but should be dealt with as soon as possible. The side windows tend to delaminate which appears as bubbles and cloudiness at the edges of the glass. There doesn't appear to be any DIY fix and replacement parts from MB are likely to suffer the same problems (Pilkington never fixed the issue) so unless it's really bad, they should probably just be left alone.

Electronics: Obviously, check that all the buttons work (easier said than done, given how many there are). Problems with the door buttons or soft-close functions are often due to wires in the door looms breaking thanks to the double door hinge placing extra strain on them. This can be fixed by a bit of resoldering but taking the door panels and insulation off can be very time-consuming.

Hopefully some of that will be helpful! All-in-all, I'm happy with mine but am bracing myself for some big bills over the coming years. As long as you're prepared for that, it's a wonderful car. Try and find one with a couple of owners and a good service history rather than one with 5 previous owners all of whom it bankrupted.

smile

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Sunday 26th October 2014
quotequote all
Hugely helpful. Many thanks.

I hope to be seeing some cars next week.

AndrewCrown

2,280 posts

113 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Dear The Pits

I have not had the CL600 or the CL55 but a CL500. Other than the engine, the systems in all three are fairly similar. I ran a 2003 Facelift CL500 until last year and ran it for 5 years. W8 is asbolutely correct with all his advice. This car was and still is spectacularly high tech. I had the rear ABC go on me... yes it was £900 a strut and one cannot rely on any used part or aftermarket copies.. These things are bespoke. I also had the valve block go, this is the block of valves which controls all the ABC. These are £3k a pop... I also had the compressed air pump (Central Locking) go.. £600... and a whole manner of other bits and bobs... Over the course of my ownership I spent around £11,000 on maintenance... £2200 a year... That said it was fantastic car to own, I'd think nothing of heading off on some decent european trips... Lisbon, Vienna, Barcelona.. and it was on the whole very reliable. Even the CL500 has awesome acceleration and the handling belies a car of this size.

I would think very carefully before embarking on ownership.. I researched the whole idea throughly... and kind of expected it was going to be expensive owning such a car, but one balances it with the fact you are driving a superlatively engineered product, made of the most fantastic materials.. and it makes you feel absolutely great..

Try some of the MB forums, all of them have a CL section.. well worth the research.

Best of luck

A


The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks. I have to say I'm amazed that a top end Merc, or any Merc that matter might need major mechanical work before 100k miles. I accept that the tech in these cars was cutting edge but I thought a big lazy Mercedes of all cars would have been engineered for more like 250k miles without major work needed. All of my Dad's Jags went well past 150k miles without so much as blowing a fuse. All were main dealer serviced. I'm wondering how many of these mercs issues are down to owners cutting corners with maintenance?

There's a Biturbo CL600 with only 26k miles for sale but only one dealer service, the rest was done by the company that owned it, so not even a good indie. The badges on the back aren't even on straight which doesn't inspire much confidence! Still hoping to view a very good example tomorrow with full MB history!

W8aMinute

70 posts

150 months

Tuesday 28th October 2014
quotequote all
Unfortunately, the C215 was from the era when Jurgen Shrempp decided to put the accountants in charge at MB. He once said "We're spending too much money on quality" which I suppose is a bit like di Montezemolo saying "We're spending too much money on performance"...

BobTurner

392 posts

209 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks, great spot. Wish I hadn't seen that now, twice the price of a really good Biturbo 600. Perhaps worth it if there was a chance of appreciating in value but with much more modern versions out there that's highly unlikely. Gorgeous thing though. Still the best looking 65 in my eyes.

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
Great car that 65 but there's someting odd about it. The speedo only goes to 160, my 55 goes to 200, that can't be right surely?

W8aMinute

70 posts

150 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
My guess is that the instrument cluster died and has been replaced from a CL500 (which are much more plentiful).

Mikeeb

405 posts

117 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
You could be right, but it puts a question on the mileage of the vehicle.

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Wednesday 29th October 2014
quotequote all
That's an even better spot!

I saw a nice example today. Wheels need refurbing but otherwise mostly very clean. There was a small but irritating cut in the front near side wing that would annoy me greatly. It would appear that the front wings are plastic anyway. Anyone have any idea how much they would be to replace?

The Pits

Original Poster:

4,289 posts

239 months

Monday 3rd November 2014
quotequote all
Interior looks way higher mileage than claimed...

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2014...