E200CDI 5-Speed Auto - Gearchange at 30mph... is this right?

E200CDI 5-Speed Auto - Gearchange at 30mph... is this right?

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jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Hi everyone, hopefully someone can tell me that this is just a foible of this car/gearbox combination but I just need to make sure.

I've recently bought a 3 year old E200CDI Bluefficiency with the 5 speed auto box. Overall I'm very happy with the car but there's one bl**dy annoying thing that is really, really irritating me. I can't imagine that any decent motor manufacturer would design a gearbox like this so thought I'd ask if anyone else has come across this problem!

There seems to be a gearchange at almost bang on 30mph. The throttle's relatively sensitive so ease it up accidentally to 31 and it can change down causing a sudden rise in revs and the accompanying light jerk that comes with a gearchange. But move your foot a micron and it changes it up again, then down, then up... it provides this annoying jerking sensation. Just travelling down a level road packed full of speed cameras can become really annoying.

I can't imagine Mercedes designed a gearbox for UK use that changes at 30mph. Surely 25mph or 35 mph would be much better. But not bang on the speed limit. It actively discourages you from driving at 30mph. The 'box changes smoothly and, whilst it's a little clunky and unintelligent compared to the more modern 7 speed autos, it seems fine in every other way.

The car's done an absolutely verifiable 17,000 miles in just three years so I can't see it can be a gearbox problem... surely?

Can anyone advise?

S0 What

3,358 posts

171 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Not a merc expert but after a change to 2nd it should stay there unless the throttle is planted or it's in sport mode, my current 03 plate CDi certainly drives that way (5 speed auto), any fault codes ? gearbox issues wont throw an MIL, a scan with a "decent" reader (and i meen decent not an ebay fault code reader so expect to pay £20+ for a code read) will show anything up, sometimes a simple removing the battery for 5 mins will reset the ECUs and then they will relearn the parameters that best suit your diving style.
They are complicated beasts, my box went into LOS and stayed in 2nd and wouldn't go past 40MPH, why? because the battery was getting old and dropping below 11V on cold cranking ! still started perfectly but the box ECU didn't like it rolleyes

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Thursday 6th November 2014
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Wow, what a nightmare. I'm almost regretting buying another auto after the nightmare I had with my last box (Audi 7 speed) imploding.

I'm going to take it down to my local garage, they're excellent and have all the latest kit. See if they can plug it in and reset the gearbox ECU for me.

r129sl

9,518 posts

202 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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It doesn't sound right to me. The 5 speed auto is usually very controllable and well set up. What happens when you use the speed limiter function? I find this invaluable in the situation you describe.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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I'm surprised it has a 5 speed box - I thought they had well changed over to 7 speed by 3yrs ago.

Mine (2005 C270CDi) is 5 speed and members on the Merc forums often reckon the 5 speed is better. Mine is close to imperceptible in its changes and it certainly doesn't hunt between gears.

What mode are you driving in? Mine has C comfort and S Standard - I always use S. Yours may have E as well and it'll always try and change up as early as possible.

Oh, and bearing in mind the speedo will over-read a couple of MPH and you won't get flashed by Gatso's until a real 35, try driving a MPH or two faster - then your issue will go away. I find if I drive bang on an indicated 30 people just try and overtake.

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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Yeah, it's an April 2011 model - I think they moved over to the 7-speed with column shifter a few months later, almost certain it was in 2011 that the change was made.

In terms of the limiter I must confess having only had the car for a week and a half now I haven't got my head around the limiter just yet. Can you advise how to use it? I know it's operated from the cruise control stalk but, other than that, I couldn't really tell you what it does/how to make best use of it.

Regarding the gearbox modes, I don't seem to have a Comfort mode. I just have M (manual), S (Sport) and E (Economy)... no C at all. I imagine that could be because the car is a Blueefficiency model rather than the conventional E200CDI? This could all be just one of those sacrifices you have to make to drive one of the economy models, such as the low rolling resistance tyres on the BMW Efficient Dynamics models that provide pretty poor grip. The car starts off in E and, in all fairness, it seems to have sufficient grunt for everyday town and motorway driving in that mode. Sport is a bit thrashy and doesn't seem to provide much improvement really.

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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Ah... so do you think that S is for Standard, not Sport? I assumed it was for Sport as it seems to improve throttle response etc. Plus the car starts off automatically in E/Economy.

r129sl

9,518 posts

202 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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The cruise control stalk has two functions, (1) for cruise control and (2) for the speed limiter.

To switch between functions, you press it in. When the stalk's yellow LED is illuminated, it is in limiter mode.

The limiter allows you quickly and easily to set a speed limit which the car will not exceed unless you press the kickdown switch, adjust the set limit upwards, or disable the limiter. It is an excellent system, very easy to use and comes into its own in heavily policed areas such as SPECs zones. I use it almost all the time in urban areas (where I do not like to speed). On the open road (where I like to make progress), I set it to 125mph so as to avoid serious penalties. In SPECs roadworks zones with a 50mph limit I set it to 57mph

You flick the stalk up or down to set the speed and to adjust the set speed upwards or downwards. You flick the stalk away from you to switch off the limiter. You pull the stalk towards you to resume the previously set speed. The set speed is displayed in the instrument cluster. It really is a brilliant system and quickly becomes intuitive.

MX-5 Lazza

7,952 posts

218 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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You could try asking a dealer. There might be a software update that will fix it.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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jumpinjohnson said:
Ah... so do you think that S is for Standard, not Sport? I assumed it was for Sport as it seems to improve throttle response etc. Plus the car starts off automatically in E/Economy.
They've changed the meaning of the letters over time - C (which starts in second in both forward and reverse) used to be called W winter).

S depends on your reference point. I would say it operates the box in its "normal" way - uses all the gears and is responsive. C slurs the changes a bit, it'll change up earlier and be more reluctant to change down. I've driven later courtesy cars, but not enough to pay attention - do you have E, S and C or just E & S?

Mine sticks in whichever mode is set but yours defaults to E because the fuel economy rules say the car must be tested in its default setting.

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Friday 7th November 2014
quotequote all
Brilliant, thanks for the advice on the limiter... all makes sense now. I can see how that could be a really useful system and I'll definitely make use of it.

I've just taken it into my local garage (excellent independent firm who service tonnes of Mercs, Audis etc.) They test drove it and agreed with me immediately that it's irritating but they don't think it's a problem. They just think it's an oversensitive design... I then took it around the corner to the local Merc main dealer. They refused to test drive it for me as any work has to be booked in and charged for. They also denied that there was any known faults - but then they would wouldn't they ;-)

I'm a little bit more happy with it now that my local garage (who are outstanding) have said they don't think it's a fault. They were surprised that Merc hadn't considered this before releasing the model but think it's probably a function of big heavy car + smallish engine + 5 speed box. They suggested that the C200CDI might not have the same issue because it's so much lighter. The 'box therefore doesn't need to change so quickly to keep it moving.

In terms of gearbox modes mine's just got E, S and M. E is Economy, S is Sport and M is manual which is operated either from the stick itself or from the paddles on the wheel. Sport is next to useless... it doesn't improve throttle response noticeably and it seems to just stay in gear for longer without any real benefits in performance. Being quite a noisy engine anyway it just makes it sound like I'm driving a van rather than a luxury motor... feels like it's holding onto the gear a little too long IMO. Not as good as the Audi 'box in that respect but, overall, the car is head and shoulders above the last gen A6 S-line I just got rid of. MILES better.

Sheepshanks

32,522 posts

118 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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jumpinjohnson said:
In terms of gearbox modes mine's just got E, S and M. E is Economy, S is Sport and M is manual which is operated either from the stick itself or from the paddles on the wheel. Sport is next to useless... it doesn't improve throttle response noticeably and it seems to just stay in gear for longer without any real benefits in performance.
I know we have different models but there's a significant difference between C and S in my car - I'm a pretty steady driver but I find C unbearably dull. I'd have expected E would be the same in your car, and your description of it changing down at the slightest touch is also not what I would expect - you'd expect it to try and hang on to as high a gear as possible in E.

I suppose it's just been mapped with too much of an eye to economy so you back off and it shifts up to keep the engine speed stupidly low.

Allegedly they do learn the way you drive so it might improve. I've always been a bit dubious about the effect of that though - what would happen if the car had multiple drivers?

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Friday 7th November 2014
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Yeah, I know what you mean. I'm going to try the gearbox reset procedure tonight that was mentioned earlier and see what happens. It does feel like the focus has been on economy far more than drivability. That said, at every other speed it's great :-)

NJS25

446 posts

248 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
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Good morning,

Can I ask how many miles you have driven in the car?

The reason for asking is that these gearboxes do learn and adapt to driving style. It doesn't take a long time to do so. The car won't mind what the speed limit is, and will simply react to the inputs of the driver. It may be that the previous owner's driving style is still dictating some of the behaviours.

That said when I was test driving models a few years ago, I chose the 220 over the 250 partly due to the way the turbos, and gear changes resulted in a 'hesitation' when accelerating through the gears. The smaller step in the 220 boost made for a smoother, if slightly less rapid acceleration profile.

I haven't driven the 200, so cannot comment directly on it's characteristics, but is concievable that the large car, small engine combination would potentially cause the symptoms you describe.

My advice would be to go for a long, varied drive, driving in a style you want to adopt (as opposed to 'test drive' style, when people to tend to hard accelerate and experiment). Use the limiter where appropriate, it really is an excellent feature.

There should be no need to reset the box. If that doesn't resolve the issue, it may be worth checking the car has all the latest software updates when it goes for it's next service.

Hope the issue resolves, enjoy the car.

Regards, Neil

Edited by NJS25 on Saturday 8th November 08:38


Edited by NJS25 on Saturday 8th November 08:40

jumpinjohnson

Original Poster:

79 posts

217 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice Neil, really appreciate it. I've only done just over 250 miles in the car so far - picked it up on the 31st October. In total it's done about 17,500 now I think, without popping outside to check the odometer.

I'll take it for a long drive over the next few days as you've suggested and see what comes of it.

In all honestly I was after a 220 but this car was just so immaculate, low mileage and well specced that I couldn't really afford not to get it.

buggalugs

9,243 posts

236 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
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I have the 5 speed box in a 2008 c220. It's sometimes a little too eager to change down than I would like, with a noisy diesel I would prefer to use the turbo to get going rather than rev it.

The behaviour has improved since I got it - it sometimes changes up when cruising at 30 now and drops me to 12-1300 rpm which is nice and it never did that when I first got it.

Not noticed the annoying behaviour you describe in yours though. Ps my manual says that S is for 'normal driving', I forget the wording but it basically says leave it in S for day to day driving.

msduk

86 posts

203 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
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There is a reset procedure documented on several merc forums. I have not tried it though and many people think it has merely a placebo effect. Worth a punt..?

(1) switch OFF the climate control and radio.
(2) close ALL doors.
(3)Turn Ignition key to all dash lights ON position(not as far as start though)
(4) Press and hold the accelerator to the floor for 20 seconds.
(5)with Accelerator still to the floor, turn the key to the OFF position DONT REMOVE IT YET.
(6) Slowly lift your foot off the accelerator.
(7) Sit for 2 minutes DONT TOUCH ANY SWITCHES.
(8) Remove the ignition key and exit the car.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months

Monday 10th November 2014
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The above does work.

It then learns the 4 changes in each gear, so 4 changes from 1st to second, 2nd to 3rd etc.
You are meant to do this without going over 3000rpm I think it is. This is actually harder to do than you think, I ended up out for ages just to go through the procedure, and you will need to find a fast dual carrigeway of course.

This is meant to be done with a tech in the passenger seats plugged into the car to take readings, to make sure a new ecu or electronic gearbox plate is doing what it is meant to be doing, but it will learn.

I know this works as when I reset it last time I then got a call from my wife saying she had lost her keys and could I get my son from school, I was 10 miles away so hustled across the backroads as quick as possible to get there without being too late, then the next day couldn't work out why my car was not changing up till almost 4000rpm, it had learnt from my 10 mile cross country sprint. biggrin


So it learns where to change in the rev range, not speed, just yours is changing at 30mph exactly.

rassi

2,447 posts

250 months

Tuesday 11th November 2014
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If it is only at a specific speed, say trying to maintain a steady 30 mph, you could also knock it into M and use the paddles to select 3rd, which it would then stay in until changing up or down with the paddles, or putting it into E or S.

gizlaroc

17,251 posts

223 months